I have M-Fever, the thread previously known as 1975 BMW 2002

[miata13B]

So Now I freaking have M-Fever and All I am doing is searching for M series Bimmers. I think I have found a shell, next step is selling the 5 and getting a daily beater while I search out the engine. . . Anyone want an '89 525i with full records including a full engine rebuild? ? ?



-Bump-

First off where is ///M Spec when you need him? yes folks, I am thinking of a little hybrid for a portfolio to get a job through BMW eventually. School is going great and I am getting more time under cars including my 525i as progression through college rolls on by. So, I was searching around looking for a M5 engine for my car and happened across a really interesting car. Through my curiousity I decided to look at the car and some modifications that have been done. I ran into the 2002 and a M20 swap. Basically I have found a '75 2002, a 325is '91 engine and a 325e tranny from '96 I believe. so I started researching on the internet and found maybe one good website. If anyone has any information or sites, I would appreciate the help. : )

 

[///M-Spec]

Dude, when did you buy a 525i??? Post pics or ban!

There's a ton of good '02 sites on the net. Unfortunately I can't think of a one right this second. Have you been to 2002faq.com? Try dropping by roadfly.org or bimmerforums.com and check out the '02 sections.. Someone might be able to point you to some info. Another good place to check is the BMWCCA site. Past issues of Roundel have documented many, many 2002 projects. One interesting one is an E30 M3 S14 powered '02. And I have heard of M50/S50 powered '02s running around.

Speaking of which, forget finding an M5 motor. Look into an S52 3.2 (E36 M3) motor, which are plentiful and cheap nowadays. If it's not fast enough with an OBDI swap, you can also turbo it.


M

 

[miata13B]

Dude, when did you buy a 525i??? Post pics or ban!

About two months ago. Bought it for a grand and it has full records. Minus a need for rear springs needing a little attention, ok a new set and a minor exhaust leak in the cat back, the car is immaculate with 189,000 miles and a rebuild of the engine about 30,000 miles ago. The car pulls hard and will not let a 3000gt NA get away from it. Pretty impressive for a gross weight just tipping 4400 lbs. She is a gorgeous gray with white shiz all over her right now : (. but nothing a car wash won't fix after the predicted snow this friday.

There's a ton of good '02 sites on the net. Unfortunately I can't think of a one right this second. Have you been to 2002faq.com? Try dropping by roadfly.org or bimmerforums.com and check out the '02 sections.. Someone might be able to point you to some info. Another good place to check is the BMWCCA site. Past issues of Roundel have documented many, many 2002 projects. One interesting one is an E30 M3 S14 powered '02. And I have heard of M50/S50 powered '02s running around.

Speaking of which, forget finding an M5 motor. Look into an S52 3.2 (E36 M3) motor, which are plentiful and cheap nowadays. If it's not fast enough with an OBDI swap, you can also turbo it.


M

I'll have to check these out, but I need to finish my homework right now. It feels good to say homework again : ). BTW, today I solely did a brake job for the Dean of the school on his '01 PT Cruiser; unfortunately I was unable to finish it in time due to a caliper having a seal leak and brake fluid coming out of it steadily. I ordered the new set of calipers because they did not have a rebuild kit for them and going to knock it out tomorrow morning in 20 minutes tops.


edit: I'll try to get a picture of it for you ///M, I'll have my buddy in class take a picture on his phone and e-mail me it. . . BTW, I am turning into a German Car Fanboy as of late. I am starting to see the light of what you speak : ) If you know of any first Gen M3's for 5 grand or less worth my investment, I would probably opt for one of those too : )

 

[CDailey]

Sounds very interesting m13b! Good to hear school is going well too. Congrats on the 525, too. Good luck with your little project.

 

[///M-Spec]

About two months ago. Bought it for a grand and it has full records.

....

BTW, I am turning into a German Car Fanboy as of late. I am starting to see the light of what you speak : ) If you know of any first Gen M3's for 5 grand or less worth my investment, I would probably opt for one of those too : )

Muahahahahah! Welcome to the dark side, my friend! Now you will buy all your tools in metric sizes and learn to love der "special" ones!

BTW, any E30 M3 you can guy for 5 grand will probably need about 6-8 grand worth of work on it to get back to "spec". My advice is to find a cherry one for 12 and enjoy it. But if you're looking for a project car, it's not a bad choice. Truthfully, most of the inexpensive and easy to find parts are for the E36. If you look around, you can probably find a salvage E36 M3 for 4-5 grand. Then you have your choice of 318/325/323/328 donor cars.


M

 

[miata13B]

Muahahahahah! Welcome to the dark side, my friend! Now you will buy all your tools in metric sizes and learn to love der "special" ones!

Already have a full set of "der" special sockets : ) Had to get a 275 piece tool box for school including a few hundred more tools. : )

BTW, any E30 M3 you can guy for 5 grand will probably need about 6-8 grand worth of work on it to get back to "spec". My advice is to find a cherry one for 12 and enjoy it. But if you're looking for a project car, it's not a bad choice. Truthfully, most of the inexpensive and easy to find parts are for the E36. If you look around, you can probably find a salvage E36 M3 for 4-5 grand. Then you have your choice of 318/325/323/328 donor cars.


M

hmmm. . . that is sounding good for the E36. . . What would it take for a 328 or 323 to be brought up to M status ? ? ? suspension and engine tweaks or a little more then just that?

 

[///M-Spec]

hmmm. . . that is sounding good for the E36. . . What would it take for a 328 or 323 to be brought up to M status ? ? ? suspension and engine tweaks or a little more then just that?

Any E36 sedan or coupe, whether it's a 318/325/323/328 can be brought to 'M spec'. All the parts are pretty much bolt on and widely available. You will need an S50/S52 powertrain complete with ECU and wiring harness. An M3 instrument cluster is a good idea, but not mandatory. M3 suspension, including struts, control-arms, roll bars and sub-frame. M3 steering rack. M3 wheels and tires. This is not including all the M cosmetic fluff like the mirrors, air dam, side moldings and rear diffuser, as well as the vaunted "Vader" seats.

Check THIS link for a excellent guide on the conversion. This guy documents pretty much everything he's done and has an awesome car at the end.


M

 

[miata13B]

Looks like that would cost me a little bit. . . Which still leads me back to the idea of the '75 with the m20 and cranking that out to M-performance. . .

 

[///M-Spec]

Hmm. Have you thought about possibly an E30 with an M50 swap? Find a tore-up 1985 318i, drop the motor and tranny from a wrecked '91-95 325i, build up the motor a little and have a 2700lb car that makes ~200 rwhp? The whole things should cost less than 5-6 grand, donor cars included.


M

 

[miata13B]

How much weight can you scrap off that 318? ? ? plus that would be an interesting little sleeper there. : )

That is sounding better and better with that price. . . what other engines are we looking at here?

 

[///M-Spec]

Good question. Club race spec'd E30s weigh in at less than 2100 lbs, so I know there is plenty of weight savings to be had. But I presume you want a full interior?

Truthfully, I'm not much an E30 expert. But I know there are a few sleeper E30s out there with M50 transplants.

I would venture a guess that any M50 series motor would feel right at home in an E30, provided you work out the electronics. The hardpoints should be all the same. The most common swap is the 189 hp 325 OBDI motor. Also quite do-able is the 240 hp E36 M3 3.0 motor. Or you can do an OBDII 3.2 from a later motor and do a backdate on it; I hear those motors are very stout.

I would GUESS a complete 1996 or 97 M3 3.2 engine and tranny should be in the 4-5 grand range. 210 all the way to 250+ rwhp depending on how you wanted to build it up.


M

 

[miata13B]

With a curb weight of 2200 to 2400lbs. with the references varying, I think 170hp with that weight would be a little better in the little 2002. . . But this has shed some more serious thought into my mind of what to do. . .

As for the interior, I just need the two front seats and dash. . . no need for anything else.

 

[Duke]

Hey, good to see you back, 13B. I'm envious of the time you're spending wrenching.

Don't forget to ask at www.grassrootsmotorsports.com - if someone there doesn't know, they'll know where to point you.

 

[miata13B]

Hey, good to see you back, 13B. I'm envious of the time you're spending wrenching.

Don't forget to ask at www.grassrootsmotorsports.com - if someone there doesn't know, they'll know where to point you.

Grassroots is actually one of the resources that I e-mailed. . . hey if it wasn't for a few of you guys here, I would never have picked that magazine and gotten a subscription. : )

Yeah my time is limited on the computer currently with my schedule but I am finding a few days a week I can jump back on the board. I really miss this place and everytime I log back on I feel that I am out of the loop. . .

I am thinking for more of a Class Act Sleeper right now and I thought that a 2002 really being square one for BMW and its presence in the US to be a starting point for me to build up. Plus the biggest thing about possibly getting that or the 318, or a beaten M3 - A portofolio I hope to put together for when I am still in school and BMW reps come in to recruit, I hope to hand them a disc with what I did to the car and have a fairly detailed layout.

It is strange, I remember back the first two times in college I never applied myself and never did anything to stand out. But now I am thinking about a long term plan of what I want to do in life and whether I reach it or not is going to be tough, but there are certain steps I am willing to at least get in life to be content.

I will do some more car searching here to see what I can find. . . But right now with the price on the 2002 and engine w/ tranny, it will be hard to beat the price. . .

 

[///M-Spec]

Good luck on your project, Miata13b. An '02 is a truly classy old car and will definately be something special and cool when you're done with it. Whatever you decide to do, keep us posted. 👍

If you decide on an E30, try hitting up the guys at bmwe30.net for E30 related stuff. Sorry I can't be more specific, but my knowledge on the older cars isn't great. I was barely driving when the E30 ceased production.

I'm still going to push for an M50 powered car, though, because I have a lot of fondness for that motor.


M

 

[RandomHero]

Found this on Grassroots Classifieds:

BMW 2002/M20 PROJECT PACKAGE. 1975 2002 roller, 196? 1600 parts car, M20 engine from ?91 325is, 5-speed transmission from 325e, plenty of spares including mounting brackets to install the M20 engine in the 2002. This is a project, not a completed car. I no longer have time to work on it, therefore I have no time to part it out either. Finish the car or part it out. $1200 for the whole package. E-mail for pictures of everything included. XXGABEXX@aol.com or (386) 334-1758. (FL)

 

[miata13B]

I wonder if it can be stuffed into a '02 . . .

Regardless, this is sonething I'll be sleeping on for a bit. I have talked with the Lead Instructor at school and he is willing to work out a deal with me in order to get the car running once I have it. A few of my fellow classmates are going to pitch in some hands too, so I think once I got everything, it will take relatively little time if we can work as a team to get this thing running : )

Another bonus over at school is that my class is only 7 people while the other first Mod class that got here the same time as us was 20 something strong. The instructors have told us that we would run circles around these guys in the shop. We will see in 2 weeks, both classes will have a similar project to do and I think we can edge them out fast, more efficient and better craftsmanship. : )

 

[miata13B]

Found this on Grassroots Classifieds:

BMW 2002/M20 PROJECT PACKAGE. 1975 2002 roller, 196? 1600 parts car, M20 engine from ?91 325is, 5-speed transmission from 325e, plenty of spares including mounting brackets to install the M20 engine in the 2002. This is a project, not a completed car. I no longer have time to work on it, therefore I have no time to part it out either. Finish the car or part it out. $1200 for the whole package. E-mail for pictures of everything included. XXGABEXX@aol.com or (386) 334-1758. (FL)

I looked at that ad too, but not going to go through the pain for that. I found some cars closer to my area that are looking a little better at my stand point. I thought to maybe e-mail this guy, but to ship it all up here is going to be expensive. . .

 

[neanderthal]

any of the newer 3 series will be a better place to start to construct a true sleeper.

the 02, while nice and light, was designed in the sixites. its not as stiff, not designed to accomodate a six, doesnt have great brakes (they are good, until you need to use them hard, and often) is likely to run hot (esp in warm climes) etc. it would make a killa sleeper though.

there are a lot of sleeper 02s out there, most use teh S14 from teh E30 M3. some use turbos. some use the M20. ive seen a small block in an 02, but that needed all sortsa mods to the firewall and and so on.

it can be done. im not trying to dissuade you.

it just would be a whole lot easier and cheaper if you started with an E30. as a bonus you wont have the rust issues 02s areprone to in climes that arent nice and sunny, so you will be able to keep it for a long time.


another sleeper is a volvo 240/244. some came with turbos. killa station wagon sleeper potential.

 

[TheCracker]

hmmm. . . that is sounding good for the E36. . . What would it take for a 328 or 323 to be brought up to M status ? ? ? suspension and engine tweaks or a little more then just that?

Why stop at M status? - The block from a 2002 (same as the earlier 1600) is what BMW used in the F1 turbo 'era' - they were getting 1400bhp in qualifing trim. They even used old blocks that had done at least 120,000 miles as a basis for their F1 engines because they knew the castings were sound and unlikely to crack! Apparantly they even left the blocks outside for a while first to 'weather' them and the engineers would even pee on them to speed up the process - nice!

I don't know if the turbo and all its piping would fit under the bonnet of a 2002 - it was about the size of a spare wheel, and i don't know if the necessary parts are off-the-shelf items, but it would be a great school project and make one hell of a sleeper

 

[miata13B]

any of the newer 3 series will be a better place to start to construct a true sleeper.

Actually, I believe a '02 would be considered a true sleeper as compared to a 3 series for the fact is that you rarely see them and not many people driving along a '60's or '70's BMW is going to expect anything in it.

the 02, while nice and light, was designed in the sixites. its not as stiff, not designed to accomodate a six, doesnt have great brakes (they are good, until you need to use them hard, and often) is likely to run hot (esp in warm climes) etc. it would make a killa sleeper though.

Yes it was designed in the '60's and it does have rust issutes, but with a little modern day technology, you can prevent the rust if you get a prime example and treat it properly, along with being able to change out the hubs on the '02 and give the rear some disc brakes along with a bigger diameter front brakes. I could probably take the brakes off my 5 series and install them. I would have to look further into it though. Along with the running hot issue, if you are swapping the engine and putting all the plumbing into place, the only thing I have to worry about is proper air flow, which will take some testing. Thank goodness I have autobody people that will help me out there.

there are a lot of sleeper 02s out there, most use teh S14 from teh E30 M3. some use turbos. some use the M20. ive seen a small block in an 02, but that needed all sortsa mods to the firewall and and so on.

There is a wide assortment of engines you can actually drop in. But, fund wise the most efficient way that I have seen in my local area is the 325 engine, which is just a few parts away from an M3 engine.

it can be done. im not trying to dissuade you.

I totally appreciate the thoughts and concerns, maybe you might have openned my eyes to something I did not see, but with what I am doing with this project and what I have found locally this seems to me to be the most efficient thing right now, but you know how that part of the brain called the Medula Badidea works. . . : )

it just would be a whole lot easier and cheaper if you started with an E30. as a bonus you wont have the rust issues 02s areprone to in climes that arent nice and sunny, so you will be able to keep it for a long time.

I don't see it cheaper in any regards to tell the truth. I have a complete shop and all the tools needed at my disposal and a few wrenchheads around that are more then willing to lend a helping hand when needed. To start off with, I would need a solid foundation out of a e30, which is not too hard to find, but the prices I have seen locally again, are too much for what I am willing to put down. As with the rust issues, there are ways around it and it starts with a perfect specimen.

another sleeper is a volvo 240/244. some came with turbos. killa station wagon sleeper potential.

I have not ventured into the Swedish car world yet, but if I had the chance to own a S40 T5, trust me I would : ) Thanks man, I appreciate the advice.

 

[miata13B]

I don't know if the turbo and all its piping would fit under the bonnet of a 2002 - it was about the size of a spare wheel, and i don't know if the necessary parts are off-the-shelf items, but it would be a great school project and make one hell of a sleeper

I don't think I will be making a force inducted car out of a NA engine. Too many concerns I would have for the engine to boost it. Plus I want to go NA for more control of the car. I don't need power spikes in corners with a rwd car.

 

[neanderthal]

26 years of being a 2002 enthusisast ( i started early!!) and i've had my thoughts summarily dismissed.

so this is what it feels like to be humble. not my cup of tea.

 

[miata13B]

26 years of being a 2002 enthusisast ( i started early!!) and i've had my thoughts summarily dismissed.

so this is what it feels like to be humble. not my cup of tea.

Oh no, that was not meant in that way at all. . . It is just my personal Opinion and undertaking trhat I fell needs justificdation over all. . . I do truly repsect your Opinion and took sometime to think about it too. . .