I'm NOT SURE about FORZA and its Physics...

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Lisa_Bonami

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I have spent a good 8 hours today and yesterday playing FORZA and I have to say that it has alot of positive things going for it, mostly the AI that really makes for some entertaining races BUT, there is something that is itching me about the physics engine in the game that I just cant put my finger on and I just am not sure how I feel about it in comparison to GT4.

I'll try to describe some things that have me concerned and maybe some of you PRO GT and FORZA veterans can chime in and comment.

The sensation of driving in FORZA feels a bit less realistic as I think it could be. The following observations were made in the IN DASHBOARD view:

Turning and handling of your cars dont capture the essence of 'steering'...it almost feels as if you can just turn and head your car in the direction you want to make adjustments with no sense of weight or negative gravity working against you...hard to explain. Also, cars feel overly drifty and also easy to recorrect once you loose control....again, there seems to be a lack of weight being tossed around. Also the driving experience doesnt give you the sensation that your car is bobbing or bouncing even the slightest bit especially when you start to push the car to its limits....its almost as if your car's tires arent actually turning on the pavement to propel forward but rather your car is slightly gliding above the surface.


In GT, when you catch a little air or your one of your tires loses contact with the pavement, you actually feel it on the recovery. Also in the replay mode, outside the car view, looking at the car hitting turns and corners doesnt appear to bottom out or dip to shift weight to one side in Forza. Am I imagining this or are perhaps these physics just more unrealistically exaggerated in Gran Turismo 4?

Whatever it is, I am not completely satisfied with the driving experience in Forza from a physics and realistic sensation of driving standpoint versus GT4.......any comments, am I simply crazy? All the talk about how Forza being more realistic than GT4 left me a little underwhelmed.
 
You are kidding about the AI, they will ram you and try to plow through you, wont make a realistic adjustment to get around you, just plow through. This can be done by doing nothing at the start of a race, the AI will just smash into you hardly trying to go around. EPR has better AI and physics if we are comparing.
 
Lisa, you almost got it right, but there is a Forza subforum here, but I'm sure a mod will be so kind to move it in there....

Concerning REALISTIC HANDLING it goes like this
Enthusia >/(=) GT4 > Forza

with Enthusia being most realistic, then right following GT4 and then a lot after Forza comes...
 
Forza isn't that bad, it's better played with a wheel, but in terms of which is more realistic out of Forza and GT4 it's about even, what GT4 does betteris offset by what Forza does better. Neither have really realistic physics.
 
live4speed
Forza isn't that bad, it's better played with a wheel, but in terms of which is more realistic out of Forza and GT4 it's about even, what GT4 does betteris offset by what Forza does better. Neither have really realistic physics.
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Well I didn' t want to say that Forza is bad ... and I also said that Enthusia is most realistic of the 3 ... of course none is perfect....
 
Be happy to. Now realise, I'm not saying Forza is perfect, it obviously isn't.


Turning and handling of your cars dont capture the essence of 'steering'...it almost feels as if you can just turn and head your car in the direction you want to make adjustments with no sense of weight or negative gravity working against you...hard to explain.
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Disagree, if anything, cornering is harsher then Gt4's, misjudging cornering usually means you'l be slamming into a wall. Grip is done in a far more realistic way too if you ask me, tyres bite in to the road better. The game has a fantastic sense of momentum.

Also, cars feel overly drifty and also easy to recorrect once you loose control....again, there seems to be a lack of weight being tossed around.
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Well as Tiff said, drifting in Gt4 is harder then in real life. OFC I can't comment on this, I'm no drifter, but I had no problems with weight transfer, if anything your able to tell the difference more in Forza I found, for example the R32 Golf feels like an utter brick.

Also the driving experience doesnt give you the sensation that your car is bobbing or bouncing even the slightest bit especially when you start to push the car to its limits....its almost as if your car's tires arent actually turning on the pavement to propel forward but rather your car is slightly gliding above the surface.
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I disagree. I found that when I pushed cars I was getting 2 wheels off the ground, skittering and sliding round corners. BTW a car has suspension to deal with slight bumps, GT4's cars seemed to have stiff rubber suspension...

In GT, when you catch a little air or your one of your tires loses contact with the pavement, you actually feel it on the recovery.
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That I agree with, your able to feel the tyres hit the road better in GT4 when you land.

Also in the replay mode, outside the car view, looking at the car hitting turns and corners doesnt appear to bottom out or dip to shift weight to one side in Forza. Am I imagining this or are perhaps these physics just more unrealistically exaggerated in Gran Turismo 4?
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Your imagining it. I've had cars scrape along the ground on corners, sparks flying etc. They also shift side to side on corners etc.

Whatever it is, I am not completely satisfied with the driving experience in Forza from a physics and realistic sensation of driving standpoint versus GT4.......any comments, am I simply crazy? All the talk about how Forza being more realistic than GT4 left me a little underwhelmed.
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I drive real cars. Forza feels more like driving a real car to me. Obviously I don't drive turbo uber cars, but you get my point. In Gt4 the cars feel overly light weight, and grip to the road in abit of an odd way...it's still good but Forzas seems more natural to me.

*blatent flopza fanboi*
 
I dont see why people are speculating these games so much. Sitting down for hours, studying the game to see which one is better. Why don't you just play it for fun. If its not fun, then go back to the other game? It doesnt have to be rocket science.
 
I have to admit this, I have been COMPLETELY spoiled with senses jarring realism after downloading and playing GTR Racing Demo 2 on my PC yesterday.....Oh my goodness!

Now I am even more depressed with both GT4 and Forza. The sensation of driving a car in GTR was surreal! From the moment you start the ignition to the way the engine growls, grumbles and spits while it is idle and the way it whines as you hit the upper gears was so amazing. the way the interior cockpit shakes as you drive to give the sensation of rolling over uneven road, the way the screen thrusts forward your interior when you jam the accelerator to simulate g's was fantastic

What do you think?
 
Never played GTR, not into pc games at all...

Neither GT4 nor Forza has a perfect physics engine, but Forza's feels "assisted". You (Lisa) were spot on when you said "you can just turn in the direction you want and make adjustments." I started the game with a Civic Type R, and even in it's untuned state the thing never oversteered; lap after lap I was attacking corneres more and more viciously because the thing handled like a perfectly tuned FR... Then I noticed that most of the cars did; EVO, Celica, they all oversteered, drifted at the slightest provocation and could be reeled in with light countersteering. Very strange indeed...
 
Ninja, thanks for the support...Im glad Im not crazy. But Im a bit confused as to how we can both be somewhat dissapointed with the physics engine or maybe better put, dissapointed with the 'driving experience' in Forza and yet others are praising it to the heavens?? After playing GTR on the PC ( which I dont care for PC racing games at all ) I was simply blown away by how much better another gaming company was able to recreate the 'driving experience' thru a game! I mean, whether you want to call the physics more realistic or overexaggerated, it doesnt matter because this game made me "FEEL" like I was in a car driving it ! ....and to me, that's what I want.

Indeed, Forza may actually have a more realistic physics engine underneath grinding away all kinds of detailed calculations and algorythms but the game simply does a poor job in translating this realistic depth into rich and detailed driving experience for the player....There's no sense of tire to the ground or weight transfer in this game. There's no sense of fighting gravity or pulling G's or quick accelerations........Even EA's NAscar game had a cool gimmick for illustrating quick accelerations by making the cockpit jolt and sway when you hit the gas
 
Lisa_Bonami
Ninja, thanks for the support...Im glad Im not crazy. But Im a bit confused as to how we can both be somewhat dissapointed with the physics engine or maybe better put, dissapointed with the 'driving experience' in Forza and yet others are praising it to the heavens?? After playing GTR on the PC ( which I dont care for PC racing games at all ) I was simply blown away by how much better another gaming company was able to recreate the 'driving experience' thru a game! I mean, whether you want to call the physics more realistic or overexaggerated, it doesnt matter because this game made me "FEEL" like I was in a car driving it ! ....and to me, that's what I want.

Indeed, Forza may actually have a more realistic physics engine underneath grinding away all kinds of detailed calculations and algorythms but the game simply does a poor job in translating this realistic depth into rich and detailed driving experience for the player....There's no sense of tire to the ground or weight transfer in this game. There's no sense of fighting gravity or pulling G's or quick accelerations........Even EA's NAscar game had a cool gimmick for illustrating quick accelerations by making the cockpit jolt and sway when you hit the gas
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Buy Enthusia; this is an amazing driving experience, really realistic...
 
Max_DC
Buy Enthusia; this is an amazing driving experience, really realistic...
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If you want to be enthusiastic about driving Don't buy Enthusia or Forza. :lol: And yes I'm pretty sure Forza and it's physics suck ass, especially if you've experienced the best game GTR.
 
Lisa, how often do you watch auto-racing? If you do, I'd suggest watching some real auto-racing events and then comparing Forza to real-life racing. That way you can pinpoint and confirm what flaws forza's physics engine has, besides the ones you already mentioned.
 
Max_DC
Buy Enthusia; this is an amazing driving experience, really realistic...
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Very, very true. Enthusia relly is unbelievable. I've put many more hours into Enthusia than I have Forza. :)

I honestly think Forza was supposed to be better than what it is; I believe it was rushed. They simply couldn't give the development team any more time with the xbox 360 looming on the horizon. Had they pushed it back the three or four or however many more months to release a finished, polished product, it wouldn't have sold the way it would have deserved because everyone would be salivating over the 360. It would have only had two or three months to shine... So they released it before they were done. IMHO. :indiff:
 
My point is, whether or not the physics are or arent accurate and true to their real life counterparts isn't even my true gripe with the game....I am not that much of a stickler for authenticity from an accuracy standpoint. My gripe is simply that I think the actual sense of being behind the wheel and actually feeling like I am driving is very poorly implemented in this game....at least for me. After playing GTR and even a demo of Live for Speed, I was amazed at how much more realistic the illusion of being in a car and driving with real physics could be!.....what do u guys think?
 
Lisa_Bonami
My point is, whether or not the physics are or arent accurate and true to their real life counterparts isn't even my true gripe with the game....I am not that much of a stickler for authenticity from an accuracy standpoint. My gripe is simply that I think the actual sense of being behind the wheel and actually feeling like I am driving is very poorly implemented in this game....at least for me. After playing GTR and even a demo of Live for Speed, I was amazed at how much more realistic the illusion of being in a car and driving with real physics could be!.....what do u guys think?
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Considering that the PC is more capable than the X-box its no wonder games like GTR and LFS are better.... But If you put those games on a crummy computer (i.e. mine) it would be crap... If you compare a X-box to a good gaming Computer... it is also be crap... (Plus consoles do not see upgrades as easily as PCs... Consoles will always fall behind because of this...)
 
animateria
Considering that the PC is more capable than the X-box its no wonder games like GTR and LFS are better.... But If you put those games on a crummy computer (i.e. mine) it would be crap... If you compare a X-box to a good gaming Computer... it is also be crap... (Plus consoles do not see upgrades as easily as PCs... Consoles will always fall behind because of this...)
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True enough. But console-wise, Forza does a less convincing job than GT4 or Enthusia.
 
WeAreN1nja
True enough. But console-wise, Forza does a less convincing job than GT4 or Enthusia.
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Fantastic thread and it echoes my thoughts precisely. As mentioned elsewhere on the Forza forum, I really believe that Forza feels rather arcadey.

I definitely rate ENTHUSIA as the most enjoyable racing experience and it has very good AI in comparison to Flopza and GT4.

I'll still play "Flopza" for its online capability but I was expecting much much more.

I haven't a clue about realism - at the end of the day a game is a game and until we all live in plugged in VR worlds I think realism is intangible, but hell Forza just don't feel right.
 
The more I play Forza, the more I am starting to get convinced that it may indeed have a more intricate or detailed physics engine then GT4 BUT the illusion of driving from the IN CAR view isn't as rich and convincing as it should/could be in comparison to other sims I've played such as GTR and Live for Speed. They could have spent some more time working on tweaking the game to have it convey a more realistic sense of being in the car and driving it.

I even find Nascar Racing by EA to have a more stylized and believable sense of really driving a car...I think alot of it boils down to the actual dashboard view that conveys a sense of enclosure for the player...as well as giving the game more opportunities to pull of some realistic special effects that simulate the feel of being in a car and driving by having the dashboard shake, push back and forth ect.....I think the game needs a cockpit mode and some tweaking to the first person driving experience for next year
 

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