Important Question...

[Kent]

This question is related to the division setup of the WRS.
To put it simply...

Would you rather come in first in D2 or last in D1 (last place in D1 still being a faster time than first in D2)?

Same goes for D2 and D3...
Last in D2 with a faster time than first in D3 or first in D3 with a time slower than last in D2.

Which position would you all rather be in?

Does your division rank carry honor?
Do podium finishes out-weigh that honor?

Do you preffer finishing on the podium each week to moving up and racing in a faster division?

Would you move down a division to get into the podium position?

Hope to hear from you all soon. 👍

 

[eggmann]

Most races that I've entered, I think I've ended up near the bottom of Div. 1. This suits me ok. I typically look at all the results together as one anyway. For example, if a Div. 2 driver had a faster time than me, and I'm 7th in Div. 1, then I see myself as actually 8th. If I were in Div. 2 instead, this would give me a podium spot (2nd), but I'd still feel like the 8th fastest rather than 2nd. I think driver rank carries some honor, but for the most part it's no big deal. This is the only series of all the OLR events I've been in where there are divisions, and I think it makes the series unique, but not necessarily better. I've been in several races (outside the WRS) where I finished right in the middle or toward the bottom. I didn't feel bad that I didn't get a podium spot in those cases, as I never anticipated I would anyway. I still felt like I had competition "on my level" without having it spelled out in a divisional format. If I was typically finishing 15th, the surrounding spots were usually occupied by the same group of racers, and those familiar racers made up my "division". So if I finished 10th one time, but ahead of drivers x, y, and z, then I did well. Now in the WRS, depending on the week, there's Mr P, Hugo, CFM, GT3mich, Kent, and a handful of others whom I know that I usually will not drive faster than. So in many weeks I don't see a podium as a possibility, yet if I finish within a second of those guys I "got a podium", if only in my own mind.

 

[banjobear]

I've thought about this a lot. I'm always pretty low in Div 2 but would be competitive in Div 3. I think that I like to be in the highest division that I can realistically compete in, regardless of the fact that I don't place in the top 3 much.

 

[GT3mich]

I would rather be last in Div 1 than 1st in Div 2. I qualifyed Div 1 and would like to stay in Div1. The only podium I look at are the top 3 times from all the times submitted.

 

[Pink_the_Floyd]

Well I'm doing just fine at Div.2 so I wouldn't go to Div.1 👍

 

[jbell]

I'm new here but I view my time in comparison to everyone in the series, not just my division(div. 3). The thing I appreciate about divisions is the ability to work your way into a higher division as you gain more experiance. It's also nice to compare the times of those within your skill level.

 

[Pink_the_Floyd]

I'm new here but I view my time in comparison to everyone in the series, not just my division(div. 3). The thing I appreciate about divisions is the ability to work your way into a higher division as you gain more experiance. It's also nice to compare the times of those within your skill level.

And you said that just B-E-A-utiful 👍



Cheers,

 

[jadaman]

i like it the way it is

 

[Consigliere]

I must agree with most of what has been said above. Albeit the fact that I'm not even close to being moved up a division I too would like to be in as high a division as possible.. It does carriy some honour in my opinion..

My two cents!

Cheers!

 

[OnlyMe]

I've only joined in on week 99, so I'm pretty new to this, but actually... if I think about it, I don't really care that much about which division I'm in... It's just a number you know.

As long as I have fun racing, I don't really mind which number my division is. Same goes for the results... first, podium, middle, last... If I had fun doing the race I'm happy

Just my two cents

 

[Kent]

i like it the way it is

I didn't ask about changing it, I asked what was more important to you.

Guess your answer gives me some insight into what you find more important though.

As for all the other replies...
Thanks. 👍

Keep them coming.

Personally, I am really looking forward to hearing from people who are on the cusp of divisions.

After the week 102 I am looking forward to hearing from icemanshooter as well.

Keep the replies coming though, I really need to hear from as many people as possible.

The more of you to reply, the more I get from the thread.
I really appreciate all of the input I'm getting out of this though.

 

[Iceman]

Here's how I look at it:
I think the division system is in place to allow drivers of comaparable skill to compete against each other, but also compare times with drivers of other skill levels. If you are consistently at the bottom of a division, why wouldn't you want to move down and enjoy the competition of other drivers of your skill level? Personally, the Division title doesn't mean much to me, as long as I am having a good time, and racing with some great guys (which I am 👍 ). Regardless of what division you are in, you still get to race against everyone else overall. I think the purpose of the division system is undermined when you have racers who might be better suited in other divisions. Of course, if you are earning you way up the ranks, and getting podiums in your division consistently, then you have every right to test yourself against heightened competition. My ultimate goal here is to have a racing series in which each person has an opportunity to compete well within their division on any given race.

 

[inferno]

I like being in devision 2 because I like winning. I like seing my name up at the top of the page, something that would never happpen if I was in devision 1. However every week I compare my times to everybody. I always try to finish in the top ten overall. The devision does carry some prostige. having "WRS devision 1" in your sig says you're among the fastest drivers in the world. at the same time I like the underdog effect. I like being in devision 2 and finnishing well into devision 1. even from devision 2, my ultimate goal is to get in the top three overall.

I had the idea at one time that in addition to the finishing order for each devision, the results could list the top ten or top five times regardless of devision. Just an Idea.

 

[Kent]

First off, your killing me inferno.

I don't know what your native language is or anything like that... but...

It is spelled Division. 👍
Please take note.

Now regarding the ideas at hand...

With everything being said, I'm thinking that we should just leave things as they are and move racers based on their own individual opinions of what would be best.

Of course, now that I'm thinking about it...

Maybe I should try setting up a division system where there are no set divisions...

Instead of giving you a division and expecting you to remember it and use it from week to week, maybe we should just set down the times from fastest to slowest, then equally seperate the times. 👍
(just like the gold silver bronze system)

Only in this there would be divisions still (so you could still take podiums in divisions other than d1).

Just a thought though...

I mean, it kinda makes sense to me since in either system there is a basic idea of the a moderator setting the standards for what divides divisions.
(just like the qualifier race)

So basically, no permanant divisions and division changes from week to week.
(unless you are consistant)

 

[Iceman]

That sounds like a great idea Kent, you really do get the best of both worlds with that setup. I've been thinking about asking to be moved to D2, but I'd like to hold off until GT4 hits the states, and I'll make my decision then once I get a feel for the game. 👍

 

[NielsG]

Division is more important to me than podiums. I would rather be last in D2 than first in D3.

If I were dead last every week in D2 it's a completely different matter though. Then I really wouldn't be competitive there and rather belong in D3. Well, I'm pretty much trying to say the same as banjo, who said it so much clearer:

I think that I like to be in the highest division that I can realistically compete in, regardless of the fact that I don't place in the top 3 much.

I race week after week and are pretty conscious of my current skill level, and where I place in comparison to the other regulars. So if you suggested a promotion to me, and I didn't feel ready, I would reject.

Like I said in the result thread, you seem very democratic in the way you rank us racers. I like that very much and prefer the cooperation between the race administrator and the racer over a strictly rule/time based system. In my humble opinion it gives the most satisfying ranking system. 👍

 

[NielsG]

Now regarding the ideas at hand...

With everything being said, I'm thinking that we should just leave things as they are and move racers based on their own individual opinions of what would be best.

Of course, now that I'm thinking about it...

Maybe I should try setting up a division system where there are no set divisions...

Instead of giving you a division and expecting you to remember it and use it from week to week, maybe we should just set down the times from fastest to slowest, then equally seperate the times. 👍
(just like the gold silver bronze system)

Only in this there would be divisions still (so you could still take podiums in divisions other than d1).

Just a thought though...

I mean, it kinda makes sense to me since in either system there is a basic idea of the a moderator setting the standards for what divides divisions.
(just like the qualifier race)

So basically, no permanant divisions and division changes from week to week.
(unless you are consistant)

OK. Hold your horses now, Kent. You throwing in a completely new question/suggestion. We also had this discussion just a couple of months ago, so I'll keep it very short this time.

I'm with jadaman all the way on this one: I like it the way it is.

And I'll even go a little further and add: I like it very much the way it is.

 

[Kent]

Sounds good, don't sweat it.

You guys like it the way it is. Plain and simple.

I'm gonna close this thread down and move it to the archive.
(not today but soon)

However, I want to make it clear that if any of you have concerns regarding your division please do not hesitate to contact me. 👍

Also, please post any final thoughts on subjects related to this one. 👍
I want to hear everything I can.

 

[Pink_the_Floyd]

Yeah, leaving it the way it is....yeah 👍

I'm driving now times that are worth mid-pack results in Division 2 so why moving to Div.1??
For the honour?
Nah, I'd rather stay in Div.2 and have a good time 👍

I mean, just look at the time splits every week between Div.1 and Div.2

If I would now go to Div.1, I would probably end up last everytime.Now that's depressive



Cheers,

 

[Corps]

I'd rather keep it the way it is, but when upgrading divisions for a racer, the racer should be asked if they even want to be put in a higher division.

Another idea I'm thinking is to make Division 1 invitation only. Division 2 and 3 are by choice. If you want to compete against tougher competition you go into div 2. If you want to go for top prize in the easiest division go to div 3. This would also make the Division 1 more prestigious because It's the only division that's Invitation Only.

This would help make Div 3 to be more competitive as there are only 2 or 3 racers every week there. Sometimes only 1. (sorry div 3's I'm gone 'til gt4)

There would need to be some rules Kent would need to inforce, if a Div 3 is way above the competition for several weeks, they will automatically be bumped to div 2.

 

[Sjaak]

I like being in division 2 because I like winning. I like seeing my name up at the top of the page, something that would never happen if I was in division 1. However every week I compare my times to everybody. I always try to finish in the top ten overall. The division does carry some prestige. having "WRS division 1" in your sig says you're among the fastest drivers in the world. at the same time I like the underdog effect. I like being in division 2 and finishing well into division 1. even from division 2, my ultimate goal is to get in the top three overall.

I had the idea at one time that in addition to the finishing order for each division, the results could list the top ten or top five times regardless of division. Just an Idea.

When you have week after week div.1 times,you will be promoted to div.1.
Just staying in div.2 for the wins while your results match div.1 times is not the meaning of the division system.


Kent,there is no real solution for the case Icemanshooter mentioned.
Bottom div.1 is not nice but always the same racers on top of div.2 either.

 

[GT3mich]

I think that if you were to do away with the Divisions you would see a huge drop off of racers. With the three divisions, there is a level every week for someone to get a podium. If you take that away, you will loose many of the Div 3 racers after a week or two. What would be thier motivation to compete when they are way down on the results list. This series has been around a long time and I'm still amazed at the turn out, week in and week out. If you keep comming up with good race combo's, they will come to feed. 👍

 

[Sphinx]

I think that if you were to do away with the Divisions you would see a huge drop off of racers.

I agree 100%

 

[eggmann]

Kent never mentioned "doing away with divisions." He only suggested reorganizing them to match the results each week, which I think is brilliant. However, I seem to be in the minority, so I'll pipe down over here.

 

[Small_Fryz]

well, when i first joined wrs way back when boombexus was mod, my goal was to get to div 1 and finish top 5 overall. As soo as i was able to pump out times in Div2 that was good enough for me to not finish last in div1 but around middle i asked if i could be promoted. Now i know with drivers like Hugo, CFM, Mr.P, Tannis etc who are very very skilled drivers that unless its my best track and there not too flash at it then i have little chance of beating them, however if i stayed in Div2, im sure inferno and other div 2 guys will be mad that im "hogging wins" when i should be in div1. I really like my WRS Div 1 in my sig and every week i try to prove that im worthy enough to keep it, im sure that if kent rearranged div each week based on finished times, then that would be a brilliant idea, and im sure I would be able to stay in Div1.

But i dont think there is anything wrong with Div1 and top end of Div2, i just think some div2 guys need to be in div3. div3 is nearly non-existent. I mean as much as theyed like to be in div2 they have to be quick enough to be there, if they are not then they will be put in div3.

So my idea is if a racer connot connsistently finish x time behind the division forerunners than they either have to move down or the division forerunners move up. But sayin that the division forerunners have to be x time away from the next division forerunners to move up. This would force some racers to be consistent if they want to keep there "prestidus div in ther sig" But then if they know there time isnt good and they dont want to move down then they might not even submit, but if they do that what is the point of competing Unfortantly no answer is perfect. Personally i dont mind which ever way it goes as im quite confident i will stay in Div 1 no matter what.

 

[Boundary Layer]

So my idea is if a racer connot connsistently finish x time behind the division forerunners than they either have to move down or the division forerunners move up. But sayin that the division forerunners have to be x time away from the next division forerunners to move up. This would force some racers to be consistent if they want to keep there "prestidus div in ther sig" But then if they know there time isnt good and they dont want to move down then they might not even submit, but if they do that what is the point of competing Unfortantly no answer is perfect. Personally i dont mind which ever way it goes as im quite confident i will stay in Div 1 no matter what.

having read Small-Fryz comments, i thought i might just extend on them

I looked back at a few previous results, and there does seem to be a slight division occuring at approximately 102% and 104% of the winning time.
So i would suggest that if the division system were to be given an overhaul, that arranging the divisions based on percentage would keep drivers where they can be most competitive. Of course, some leeway would have to be given to allow someone a poor performance here and there. Perhaps something like, a result within 102% of winning time every 3 weeks to remain in div 1, or else moved to div 2. (or 3 every 5, something like that...)

ie)div 1 spans from winning time to 102% of that time
div 2 spans from 102% to 104% of winning time
div 3 covers all times beyond 104%

if you're unable to keep up with the standards set for that division at least once in 3 weeks, then you are moved down to the division where your last 3 times have been placing (based on an average of the performance percentages attained over those 3 weeks).
to move up in rank, you might require your last 2 or 3 finishes to fall inside the next divisions range - or something to this effect

clearly this would require some statistical work, but with members like flat-out doing something along these lines on a weekly basis anyways it shouldnt be anything that cant be achieved.

of course, this is only a suggestion, and i'm sure that there are faults in this model. It would be sensitive to members who's participation is irregular, as Small-Fryz elludes to in his post

 

[Kent]

Not to worry!

I'm just going to let things continue on as they have in the past.

No need to change what already works well
aka
If it ain't broke don't fix it!

Thanks for the suggestions fellas. 👍

Bottom line:
If any of you feel like a division change might be best for you, then just contact me.

On that same note though, I want to give you all a heads up.
Div 3 is light and div 2 is awefully spread out (and over-populated).

So slight changes may be in the works, but nothing like a major over-haul.