Improving the online experience of GT7 - Making GT7 great!

  • Thread starter IVFOXVI
  • 19 comments
  • 1,969 views
5
South Africa
South Africa
Why does GT7 not focus on improving the online experience.
Daily races are good but can be better. What if you had team races where you and a friend can join a race. Race some laps and when you pit the driving player goes to viewer and the viewer goes to driver. As viewer you can basically act like team manager and inform teammate of what is happening around him and who is close to him, etc.

Also in private lobbies. . . creating your own mini championship.
Selecting a number of tracks for the championship and all other settings like qualifying, number of laps, etc.
Then it calculates the points after each race and at the end of the mini championship it shows the total points and winner.

Stuff like this will really change this game from good to great!
 
In the PD HQ:

GUYS WE WON THE RACING GAME OF THE YEAR!!!

MpKmeS6.gif
 
Thats great!
But …. How can making the game even better be a bad thing!
Keep pushing forward …. Or get left behind!
I don’t think anyone will argue making the game better would be a bad thing, but I also don’t think anyone at PD or SIE has fears of Gran Turismo getting “left behind” given the history of the franchise from the beginning to this day. Even with plenty of complaints and bad reviews online, the games sell very well, and they don’t just sell themselves, they also drive PlayStation console sales and accessories quite well too.

At some point, especially in some people’s eyes, putting more money and effort into something that’s already doing exactly what they want from a business perspective isn’t seen as a win. Everything can be improved, or could use more content/features, but at what cost and for what in return? Even changes that have minor end user impact can be expensive. Maybe they don’t see the ROI or need more from the game?

If they were at all concerned about being left behind they’d have fixed a lot of the issues and bugs that have existed, or started giving us more content and newer vehicles long ago. They’re obviously fine with how things are going.
 
GT is really good game and has a lot of content I enjoy. Just saying they can be better.
Downloaded ACC last night.
Its not bad actually…. Unfortunately I only race in VR now … the experience is too good.
If ACC adds VR … most definitely will try it.

And thats what I mean. Improve GT … that way nobody will even think of trying the other racing games/sims out there

I understand business and that PD is a business. And making money is important.
But I am sure GT was started also because of the passion of cars and the driving experience.
Now whats wrong with improving that experience.
 
Why does GT7 not focus on improving the online experience.
Daily races are good but can be better. What if you had team races where you and a friend can join a race. Race some laps and when you pit the driving player goes to viewer and the viewer goes to driver. As viewer you can basically act like team manager and inform teammate of what is happening around him and who is close to him, etc.

Also in private lobbies. . . creating your own mini championship.
Selecting a number of tracks for the championship and all other settings like qualifying, number of laps, etc.
Then it calculates the points after each race and at the end of the mini championship it shows the total points and winner.

Stuff like this will really change this game from good to great!
It seems that what is evidently 'better' for players is not necessarily what PD is concerned about...some interesting ideas by you though...shame we continually seem to lose players with intriguing ideas.
 
I've posted some improvements I would like to make "Sport" more interesting in the daily race discussion thread. To summarize these are my collective thoughts:

The sport side should be focused around having a progressive race experience so it is not intimidating for newbies and also has a quick race option for those that perhaps only do a couple races a week and don't want to spend all week "mastering" a track/car combo. It needs to fix the qualifier issue where people can spend hours doing QT only to then not be able to match it on track or that they QT in one car and that performance then applies to another which can't match it. Finally, it needs more rotation of race lengths (Sprint, Strategy and add endurance) and of car types while keeping what is popular.

I propose five races. Two change every day - truly "daily" races, and three change each week - so weekly races.

First we start with the daily races that truly only last for one day. Both these races are SR enabled but not DR. People should be able to jump on and had a fun race and not be worried about hitting their DR performance. Matching is based on SR first and then a pre-race qualifier to try to get a close and competitive grid.

Daily A

Short sprint - varied car selection - biased towards road cars like classic GT days - and have tracks sympathetic to those cars. Could be a one make race, or a selection of similar styles (Euro hot hatch for instance, or hyper-car, or classic 1960s cars tec). There is lots of opportunity here and this would be a non-DR but would have SR switched on.

For starting position a 1 hot lap qualifying run would be used (you can of course practice ahead but that would not count to your QT like today) and then race up to 15 minutes assuming the QT session is short - less if longer. The QT hot lap will terminate at 30 seconds past fastest lap - or some maximum value. If you have not cross the line by then, then your grid position along DNF cars is determined on how far you made it along the track - if no one did that then it's completely random draw.

This way, your starting position is directly related to you performance at that time and also the tune (if tuning is allowed) and set up of your car.

I think this would be an excellent way to have a "feeder" race into more involved races. It would also hugely benefit racers that just want to jump on and race, knowing that they will be racing others with similar QT to theirs so they won't get left behind if not that familiar with the combo. Also as it rotates daily, it will be mostly fresh for most people each day.

Daily B

This one is more involved and is designed for variety. It rotates between:
  • Endurance: 50 minute races - 1hr race interval (including QT) with up to two pit spots
  • Sprint: 15 minute race (including QT) - 20 minute interval
  • Strategy: 35 minute race (including QT) - 40 minute race interval with 1 pit stop
QT would be a similar concept to daily A but perhaps the longer races can have two hot laps. I think each race length should rotate per day. That way over time everyone should have a chance of picking up an endurance or sprint or strategy race. The car selection should vary hugely as well. Give a chance to race some of these weird and classic cars we paid $20m credits for but have no other use as no in game races cover them..

Both dailies should have light damage model. Endurance races would obviously favor longer tracks like the Nordschleifer and Le Mans but could be anything.

Then we have the weekly races. These are the ones that build DR.

Weekly races drop what is currently daily A as that is moved to the true dailies above. The weekly races alter the qualifier so they run like today but with one big distinction. The QT you get for the week only applies to that particular car. You QT in the M6 and then go race the RSR then you start at the back of the grid unless you also QT'd in the RSR. This is design to separate the metas that may be fast in QT but are not so great in traffic vs these that are competitive in racing but may not be so hot in QT. It'll be interesting.

Weekly A - Sprint (15 minute race - 20 minute interval)
Similar to current format that is shorter races with no fuel/tire ware to worry about. Typically rotates between the ever popular Gr.4, Gr.3 cars with occasional road cars and tuner options thrown in.

Weekly B - Strategy (35 minute race - 40 minute race interval with 1 pit stop)
Similar to current daily C. However I would advocate for more car rotation options. This should have more Gr.2 and sport car selection. Also let's get more classic road cars and tuners.
Weekly C - Endurance (Expert level)
This would be the new addition that is sorely missing and much asked for. Longer, up to 50 minute races, on a 1 hour cycle with up to 2 pit stops with tire and fuel wear to factor. These should be pushed as expert races that have hard damage models meaning you have to pit to fix your car.

Car selection would be predominately Gr.3 and above but once a month there should be odd ball races. Could you imagine a "24 hrs of lemons" type race where in 50 minutes we cycle through an entire day and we race in cars that limited to say 350PP?

There should be much more 60s/70s/80s classic sports cars in these races as well.

Finally, race award credits and DR/SR performance points should relate to the length and difficulty of the race based on a per hour rate.

So points would have a multiplier applied based on length - the multiple stated in the race rules/conditions:

20 minute races X1
30 minute races X1.5
40 minute races X2
60 minute races X3


Bigger races give you an opportunity to gain a lot of points, but also to lose them...

EDIT: I forgot to add but races where tuning is permitted should be a regular occurrence. I don't think that makes sense for the daily races but for weekly, definitely. PD needs to implement it better than now though. We need to be able to save tuner settings the we determined during practice/race that can be called up at the start of the race rather than making a note somewhere and then entering them hurriedly before a race starts.
 
Last edited:
I've posted some improvements I would like to make "Sport" more interesting in the daily race discussion thread. To summarize these are my collective thoughts:

The sport side should be focused around having a progressive race experience so it is not intimidating for newbies and also has a quick race option for those that perhaps only do a couple races a week and don't want to spend all week "mastering" a track/car combo. It needs to fix the qualifier issue where people can spend hours doing QT only to then not be able to match it on track or that they QT in one car and that performance then applies to another which can't match it. Finally, it needs more rotation of race lengths (Sprint, Strategy and add endurance) and of car types while keeping what is popular.

I propose five races. Two change every day - truly "daily" races, and three change each week - so weekly races.

First we start with the daily races that truly only last for one day. Both these races are SR enabled but not DR. People should be able to jump on and had a fun race and not be worried about hitting their DR performance. Matching is based on SR first and then a pre-race qualifier to try to get a close and competitive grid.

Daily A

Short sprint - varied car selection - biased towards road cars like classic GT days - and have tracks sympathetic to those cars. Could be a one make race, or a selection of similar styles (Euro hot hatch for instance, or hyper-car, or classic 1960s cars tec). There is lots of opportunity here and this would be a non-DR but would have SR switched on.

For starting position a 1 hot lap qualifying run would be used (you can of course practice ahead but that would not count to your QT like today) and then race up to 15 minutes assuming the QT session is short - less if longer. The QT hot lap will terminate at 30 seconds past fastest lap - or some maximum value. If you have not cross the line by then, then your grid position along DNF cars is determined on how far you made it along the track - if no one did that then it's completely random draw.

This way, your starting position is directly related to you performance at that time and also the tune (if tuning is allowed) and set up of your car.

I think this would be an excellent way to have a "feeder" race into more involved races. It would also hugely benefit racers that just want to jump on and race, knowing that they will be racing others with similar QT to theirs so they won't get left behind if not that familiar with the combo. Also as it rotates daily, it will be mostly fresh for most people each day.

Daily B

This one is more involved and is designed for variety. It rotates between:
  • Endurance: 50 minute races - 1hr race interval (including QT) with up to two pit spots
  • Sprint: 15 minute race (including QT) - 20 minute interval
  • Strategy: 35 minute race (including QT) - 40 minute race interval with 1 pit stop
QT would be a similar concept to daily A but perhaps the longer races can have two hot laps. I think each race length should rotate per day. That way over time everyone should have a chance of picking up an endurance or sprint or strategy race. The car selection should vary hugely as well. Give a chance to race some of these weird and classic cars we paid $20m credits for but have no other use as no in game races cover them..

Both dailies should have light damage model. Endurance races would obviously favor longer tracks like the Nordschleifer and Le Mans but could be anything.

Then we have the weekly races. These are the ones that build DR.

Weekly races drop what is currently daily A as that is moved to the true dailies above. The weekly races alter the qualifier so they run like today but with one big distinction. The QT you get for the week only applies to that particular car. You QT in the M6 and then go race the RSR then you start at the back of the grid unless you also QT'd in the RSR. This is design to separate the metas that may be fast in QT but are not so great in traffic vs these that are competitive in racing but may not be so hot in QT. It'll be interesting.

Weekly A - Sprint (15 minute race - 20 minute interval)
Similar to current format that is shorter races with no fuel/tire ware to worry about. Typically rotates between the ever popular Gr.4, Gr.3 cars with occasional road cars and tuner options thrown in.

Weekly B - Strategy (35 minute race - 40 minute race interval with 1 pit stop)
Similar to current daily C. However I would advocate for more car rotation options. This should have more Gr.2 and sport car selection. Also let's get more classic road cars and tuners.
Weekly C - Endurance (Expert level)
This would be the new addition that is sorely missing and much asked for. Longer, up to 50 minute races, on a 1 hour cycle with up to 2 pit stops with tire and fuel wear to factor. These should be pushed as expert races that have hard damage models meaning you have to pit to fix your car.

Car selection would be predominately Gr.3 and above but once a month there should be odd ball races. Could you imagine a "24 hrs of lemons" type race where in 50 minutes we cycle through an entire day and we race in cars that limited to say 350PP?

There should be much more 60s/70s/80s classic sports cars in these races as well.

Finally, race award credits and DR/SR performance points should relate to the length and difficulty of the race based on a per hour rate.

So points would have a multiplier applied based on length - the multiple stated in the race rules/conditions:

20 minute races X1
30 minute races X1.5
40 minute races X2
60 minute races X3


Bigger races give you an opportunity to gain a lot of points, but also to lose them...

EDIT: I forgot to add but races where tuning is permitted should be a regular occurrence. I don't think that makes sense for the daily races but for weekly, definitely. PD needs to implement it better than now though. We need to be able to save tuner settings the we determined during practice/race that can be called up at the start of the race rather than making a note somewhere and then entering them hurriedly before a race starts.


All of this!

…heck even half of this!
 
I've posted some improvements I would like to make "Sport" more interesting in the daily race discussion thread. To summarize these are my collective thoughts:

The sport side should be focused around having a progressive race experience so it is not intimidating for newbies and also has a quick race option for those that perhaps only do a couple races a week and don't want to spend all week "mastering" a track/car combo. It needs to fix the qualifier issue where people can spend hours doing QT only to then not be able to match it on track or that they QT in one car and that performance then applies to another which can't match it. Finally, it needs more rotation of race lengths (Sprint, Strategy and add endurance) and of car types while keeping what is popular.

I propose five races. Two change every day - truly "daily" races, and three change each week - so weekly races.

First we start with the daily races that truly only last for one day. Both these races are SR enabled but not DR. People should be able to jump on and had a fun race and not be worried about hitting their DR performance. Matching is based on SR first and then a pre-race qualifier to try to get a close and competitive grid.

Daily A

Short sprint - varied car selection - biased towards road cars like classic GT days - and have tracks sympathetic to those cars. Could be a one make race, or a selection of similar styles (Euro hot hatch for instance, or hyper-car, or classic 1960s cars tec). There is lots of opportunity here and this would be a non-DR but would have SR switched on.

For starting position a 1 hot lap qualifying run would be used (you can of course practice ahead but that would not count to your QT like today) and then race up to 15 minutes assuming the QT session is short - less if longer. The QT hot lap will terminate at 30 seconds past fastest lap - or some maximum value. If you have not cross the line by then, then your grid position along DNF cars is determined on how far you made it along the track - if no one did that then it's completely random draw.

This way, your starting position is directly related to you performance at that time and also the tune (if tuning is allowed) and set up of your car.

I think this would be an excellent way to have a "feeder" race into more involved races. It would also hugely benefit racers that just want to jump on and race, knowing that they will be racing others with similar QT to theirs so they won't get left behind if not that familiar with the combo. Also as it rotates daily, it will be mostly fresh for most people each day.

Daily B

This one is more involved and is designed for variety. It rotates between:
  • Endurance: 50 minute races - 1hr race interval (including QT) with up to two pit spots
  • Sprint: 15 minute race (including QT) - 20 minute interval
  • Strategy: 35 minute race (including QT) - 40 minute race interval with 1 pit stop
QT would be a similar concept to daily A but perhaps the longer races can have two hot laps. I think each race length should rotate per day. That way over time everyone should have a chance of picking up an endurance or sprint or strategy race. The car selection should vary hugely as well. Give a chance to race some of these weird and classic cars we paid $20m credits for but have no other use as no in game races cover them..

Both dailies should have light damage model. Endurance races would obviously favor longer tracks like the Nordschleifer and Le Mans but could be anything.

Then we have the weekly races. These are the ones that build DR.

Weekly races drop what is currently daily A as that is moved to the true dailies above. The weekly races alter the qualifier so they run like today but with one big distinction. The QT you get for the week only applies to that particular car. You QT in the M6 and then go race the RSR then you start at the back of the grid unless you also QT'd in the RSR. This is design to separate the metas that may be fast in QT but are not so great in traffic vs these that are competitive in racing but may not be so hot in QT. It'll be interesting.

Weekly A - Sprint (15 minute race - 20 minute interval)
Similar to current format that is shorter races with no fuel/tire ware to worry about. Typically rotates between the ever popular Gr.4, Gr.3 cars with occasional road cars and tuner options thrown in.

Weekly B - Strategy (35 minute race - 40 minute race interval with 1 pit stop)
Similar to current daily C. However I would advocate for more car rotation options. This should have more Gr.2 and sport car selection. Also let's get more classic road cars and tuners.
Weekly C - Endurance (Expert level)
This would be the new addition that is sorely missing and much asked for. Longer, up to 50 minute races, on a 1 hour cycle with up to 2 pit stops with tire and fuel wear to factor. These should be pushed as expert races that have hard damage models meaning you have to pit to fix your car.

Car selection would be predominately Gr.3 and above but once a month there should be odd ball races. Could you imagine a "24 hrs of lemons" type race where in 50 minutes we cycle through an entire day and we race in cars that limited to say 350PP?

There should be much more 60s/70s/80s classic sports cars in these races as well.

Finally, race award credits and DR/SR performance points should relate to the length and difficulty of the race based on a per hour rate.

So points would have a multiplier applied based on length - the multiple stated in the race rules/conditions:

20 minute races X1
30 minute races X1.5
40 minute races X2
60 minute races X3


Bigger races give you an opportunity to gain a lot of points, but also to lose them...

EDIT: I forgot to add but races where tuning is permitted should be a regular occurrence. I don't think that makes sense for the daily races but for weekly, definitely. PD needs to implement it better than now though. We need to be able to save tuner settings the we determined during practice/race that can be called up at the start of the race rather than making a note somewhere and then entering them hurriedly before a race starts.
I would genuinely love for someone to pitch that, or at least ask Kaz why Sport has been given such little attention.

The enduring players I would think pretty much solely play Sport Mode (my playtime is like 95% Sport Mode) so it just doesn't make sense to me how they haven't spiced it up at all or refreshed it since release. I would also love for weather and time of day to really play a huge factor in the harder Sport races.
 
I would love to advocate for some more variety in the online rotation... BUT...

I think the masses are simply stupid or ignorant to any kind of complex race conditions, given that 1 mandatory tyre choice is too much of a complicated instruction to be under. Even when the races are sitting there for 7 days.

I can't imagine your average player to pick up a new (actual) daily race and understand/register any of the conditions of the sort that @TheNormsk has suggested earlier.

It would drive players away.
 
I would love to advocate for some more variety in the online rotation... BUT...

I think the masses are simply stupid or ignorant to any kind of complex race conditions, given that 1 mandatory tyre choice is too much of a complicated instruction to be under. Even when the races are sitting there for 7 days.

I can't imagine your average player to pick up a new (actual) daily race and understand/register any of the conditions of the sort that @TheNormsk has suggested earlier.

It would drive players away.
I think certain race conditions bore people, unfortunately. Most people want on-track battles (1vX) and I get it, the pressure is apparent and easy to understand how your actions affect the race. Its way more engaging than trying to keep a mental image of a burn-down chart of your fuel & tires while running on your own for the entire race.

Additionally, if you finally managed to carve out one or two hours to play each day, you probably don't want to spend all that time just trying to sort out what is optimal before going for the win. I've seen plenty of otherwise faster drivers simply throw away a win because they made a fundamental error their strategy or while executing it, using the wrong tire compound/fuel saving strat at the wrong time.

Its almost entirely a knowledge gap issue and not really a skill one.
 
It is very frustrating when they implement things properly in previous games and then they never return. Like shuffle racing or member lists.

Having to equip tyres you already own instead of the game auto-equipping them is terrible UX and no first party game should have this happening.

They really need to do a better job with Race C car and track combos, group 3 and 4 is very stale

I would love to advocate for some more variety in the online rotation... BUT...

I think the masses are simply stupid or ignorant to any kind of complex race conditions, given that 1 mandatory tyre choice is too much of a complicated instruction to be under. Even when the races are sitting there for 7 days.

The core issue is that daily races have a bad menu interface which is why people constantly miss the mandatory pit stop.

The game is asking you to scroll through a table of information before the race, 99% of it is irrelevant, so yeah people are going to miss it.

Maybe the game could also highlight to the player why they have a post race penalty. It would be very easy on the results screen to have a button which shows details on how you ended up with a one minute penalty, or a five second penalty, so people aren't having to look at forums to figure it out.



If PD made things more intuitive for the user it'd make this a much smaller issue (like where they highlighted what tyre selection is mandatory on pit stops).
 
Last edited:
Having to equip tyres you already own instead of the game auto-equipping them is terrible UX and no first party game should have this happening.
My thought (excuse, I suppose) has always been that if there's two, three or four different compounds available then how does the game know which to equip by default?
The core issue is that daily races have a bad menu interface which is why people constantly miss the mandatory pit stop.

The game is asking you to scroll through a table of information before the race, 99% of it is irrelevant, so yeah people are going to miss it.

Maybe the game could also highlight to the player why they have a post race penalty. It would be very easy on the results screen to have a button which shows details on how you ended up with a one minute penalty, or a five second penalty, so people aren't having to look at forums to figure it out.

If PD made things more intuitive for the user it'd make this a much smaller issue (like where they highlighted what tyre selection is mandatory on pit stops).
Personally, I think you're giving people too much credit. I work in a bar and there are massive 'No Smoking' signs all over the nonsmokers terrace. Guess what I have to do several dozen times each night?
 
My thought (excuse, I suppose) has always been that if there's two, three or four different compounds available then how does the game know which to equip by default?

Well for one the game knows what compounds you aren't allowed to use, so they could auto-equip whatever tyres you have that are mandatory.

Or they could simply prompt you to select tyres, rather than throw the error, make you back out, navigate to the settings menu, open tyre selection, select tyres, then navigate back to enter the race.



Personally, I think you're giving people too much credit. I work in a bar and there are massive 'No Smoking' signs all over the nonsmokers terrace. Guess what I have to do several dozen times each night?

They are different things.

Most people who smoke in marked no smoking areas do it because they want to smoke and figure that it's not going to be enforced enough to not do it.

It's not the same as people being confused about a one minute penalty
 
Last edited:
I would love to advocate for some more variety in the online rotation... BUT...

I think the masses are simply stupid or ignorant to any kind of complex race conditions, given that 1 mandatory tyre choice is too much of a complicated instruction to be under. Even when the races are sitting there for 7 days.

I can't imagine your average player to pick up a new (actual) daily race and understand/register any of the conditions of the sort that @TheNormsk has suggested earlier.

It would drive players away.


When you cater to the lowest common denominator, that is the thing your guaranteed to get it. And after a while that tendency drives all of the interest from a paradigm leaving a rotting husk of dirtbags as everyone worth anything moves on. Fact is, most of gt7’s players shun sport mode. By providing a hierarchy to aspire to as well as a few more formats the depth of the driver pool should increase. Presently, things don’t feel great from a volume/depth perspective as seeing cara from Dr A to C are racing together(personal observation). Not an indication of health.

..there have been millions of copies sold. Yet only 10’s of thousands compete online weekly. Despite all of gt’s marketing and the movie. They can’t all have 💩 internet. So, it’s the formats, and of course the racers they attract.

Thing is, race a is always short and weird(except the porsche this week. Thats fun!), race B is ok however its so short that it encourages people to wreck you as that effectively removes you from any chance of finishing up front. 8min races will do that. However B is good for the min/maxing farmers.

C can be ok, especially for those of us who appreciate taking a lap or two to settle into the groove of a race but i often find myself wishing for another lap or three. Not every week, but often enough.

Also! And not for nothing, despite all of the gr3&4 cars in game there are really only a small handful which get used. Heck it can be argued that gr4 has devolved into a 1 make mazda fest leaving A and C as the only races with any hope of diversity for the past several months. And again, the effects of this are present daily online with overlapping DR ratings.

We need a broader diversity of race offerings and smaller groupings of cars to bring some health back into sport mode. To not do this now, while the game is still getting a movie pop is hubris(looking at you bean counters) and will guarantee the slow attrition until another game such as acc2 or that ian bell game come along with vr support and eats their lunch.

Tick, tock
 
Sony have already got your money, why should they improve the online racing experience?

Besides, we are seeing a shift in what GT is all about, and that is to expand their user base by spanning the franchise into social media, movies, along with luxury goods, motorsport and automotive manufacturer collaborations. It's not really a 'racing game' anymore ...
 
Last edited:
Back