In an entirely unsurprising announcement, the Fiat 500 is the best thing since air.

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Fiat 500 won European COTY award! [SIZE=-1]

Although the 2008 European Car of the Year award is scheduled to be announced on next Monday, one of the organizers, Dutch magazine Autovisie, has leaked the voting results in its website. Same as my prediction, Fiat 500 won the title by a convincing margin from second place Mazda 2. The following places are filled by Ford Mondeo, Kia Cee'd, Nissan Qashqai, Mercedes C-class and Peugeot 308. So congratulation for Fiat's 9th triumph, and the 12th wins for the Fiat group !

500_2.jpg

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Standing:

Fiat 500: 385 points
Mazda2: 325 points
Ford Mondeo: 202 points
Kia Cee’d: 166 points
Nissan Qashqai: 147 points
Mercedes C-Class: 128 points
Peugeot 308: 97 points
[/SIZE]

Linky.

And honestly, when you see the gauge cluster, you will know it is true, as shown by this highly photoshopped picture of it:
fiat5002008800x600wallpoq7.jpg


Still, it needs to be sold here so BMW will stop ruining the Mini name with sub-par junk like, well, the Mini. Happily, I have heard rumblings of the Abarth version making its way over here, so who knows? Maybe it will show up when Alfa does, presumably before Duke Nukem Forever.
 
It still would've been cooler with a rear-engine rear-wheel-drive layout. But it's neat as-is.
 
The Mini is not sub-par junk, I'm guessing you've probably never driven one based solely on that statement. While I can not dispute that many think the name has been "ruined", it is a well made car and is not junk. This isn't a Cobalt or a Focus we are talking about here. Plus if the Mini was "sub-par junk" it wouldn't be praised by reviewers (I believe Top Gear even named it 2006 Hot Hatch of the Year) and it wouldn't hold it's resale value so well. You may not like it, which is fine, many people don't, but the car isn't junk.

And since I would require proof of these statements it only makes sense I provide it:

Resale value
http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story.jsp?section=buy&story=hiResidual&subject=best_resale
http://www.forbesautos.com/advice/toptens/resale/01-resale_value.html
http://www.caranddriver.com/dailyau...ps-in-resale-value-says-kelley-blue-book.html

Reviews/Praise
http://www.whatcar.com/news-special-report.aspx?NA=223730&EL=3188060
http://www.topgear.com/content/features/stories/2006/12/stories/09/1.html
http://reviews.cnet.com/coupe-hatchback/2007-mini-cooper-s/4505-10867_7-32329237.html

And it was even running for 2008 Car and Driver COTY
http://blogs.motortrend.com/6221833...r-trend-coty-contender-mini-cooper/index.html

And the Fiat 500? The only thing I can really say about it is that it has "meh" looks. Never driven one, probably won't ever drive one so I can't say anything about the car itself. I really do not care for how that interior looks either, it looks cheap...like something out of a mid 90's GM small car.
 
For a second I was going to pull you on mentioning the Cobalt and Focus in the same breath, then I remembered you're Focus. Ford really needs to give you ours.
 
For a second I was going to oull you on mentioning the Cobalt and Focus in the same breath, then I remembered you're Focus. Ford really needs to give you ours.

Agreed, I don't understand why we don't get that car. The European version is miles ahead of the American version.
 
That's the thing. The MKI Focus is not a bad car, it's just that the MKII is spectacularly good.
 
I'd wager that the MKI Focus setup as we get it is better than over there. The MKI won plenty of best car awards in it's time and I have to say the one I recently bought seems like a decent enough car, as good as some much more recent cars maybe. The MKI we got and the MKI the US get may share a chassis but they might be pretty different in other areas beside the obvious looks.
 
It still would've been cooler with a rear-engine rear-wheel-drive layout.
QFT.

I was looking forward to Fiat redoing the Abarth and propping up the engine-cover on little sticks so the engine won't overheat (yes, I know that was only on the racing versions, but come on, how cool would it be). Now it's front-drive that's no longer possible :/

I'm still undecided on the styling. Reminds me of a Nissan Micra crossed with a Mini.

Now, all we need is for some tuning company to put a grunty engine in the back :dopey:
 
The Mini is not sub-par junk, I'm guessing you've probably never driven one based solely on that statement.
I've used a bunch of fantastically driving cars that were held together with chewing gum when new, and I'm sure many others have as well, so don't be so surprised if many others disagree with you on the fact that driving excitement = overall quality.
Besides, the Beamer Mini fails completely at being a Mini. Driving fun was only a small part of what made the Mini what it was, and the Beamer Mini fails at everything else. Such as space efficiency. Or cost. It did do cheap interior very well, but thankfully BMW fixed that to a degree (incredibly surprising that you brought that up against the Fiat 500, though).
The Mini is a great handling car, a fun car, and a great car to buy if you want to keep residuals. But even after a generation change (which fixed a few of the flaws with the car but left many) it still isn't a great car overall.
 
I've used a bunch of fantastically driving cars that were held together with chewing gum when new, and I'm sure many others have as well, so don't be so surprised if many others disagree with you on the fact that driving excitement = overall quality.

Where have you used these? This statement sort of confused me. The Mini is very well put together, especially compared to other small cars offered in America. The quality is quite good, it might have been different during the R50 era but I don't know a ton about those. The Cooper I have right now is an R53 and it's really the first time I've messed with one.

Besides, the Beamer Mini fails completely at being a Mini. Driving fun was only a small part of what made the Mini what it was, and the Beamer Mini fails at everything else. Such as space efficiency. Or cost. It did do cheap interior very well, but thankfully BMW fixed that to a degree (incredibly surprising that you brought that up against the Fiat 500, though).

It doesn't fail at being a Mini, why is is so hard for people to understand it is no longer safe to have something the size of the Leyland Mini running around? Cars have to have airbags now and the redesigned front of the R56 is to stick with the pedestrian laws in Europe. The Mini is still one of the smallest vehicles you can buy in the states.

I also do not know how you can say it doesn't use space correctly. Once again I do not believe you have ever been in one. I've already packed my car full of stuff and it fit fine. I'm not expecting to have something that can fit as much stuff as say an SUV.

I do agree they are pricey for what they are, they are a few thousand more then others in their class. But you get what you pay for, the Mini is worlds ahead of a Scion xA and a Toyota Yaris.

And the interior? The R50's interior was a bit "meh" at best but the R56's is quite good. It feels very solid.

The Mini is a great handling car, and a great car to buy if you want to keep residuals. But even after a generation change (which fixed a few of the flaws with the car but left many) it still isn't a great car overall.

In America what is a better option? A Chevy Aveo?

Like I said you don't have to like the car (whether you feel it's overpriced, ugly, slow), but I do not think you are correct in calling a bad car. I would honestly like to know in America what you think is better? Sure if we lived in Europe we could go all day with cars but there are slim pickings in the states.
 
Where have you used these? This statement sort of confused me. The Mini is very well put together, especially compared to other small cars offered in America.
And I haven't heard anything to the contrary, and in fact have heard better things about the interior quality. But the interior of the old new Mini was just junk, and that was my point. Driving excitement did not mask the glaring flaws that that car had.

It doesn't fail at being a Mini, why is is so hard for people to understand it is no longer safe to have something the size of the Leyland Mini running around? Cars have to have airbags now and the redesigned front of the R56 is to stick with the pedestrian laws in Europe.
First of all, there are a whole lot of cars sold in Europe that are about a foot shorter than the Mini. Second of all, I wasn't referring to the car's size as being one of the problems.

I also do not know how you can say it doesn't use space correctly. Once again I do not believe you have ever been in one.
First of all, while I have not driven a Mini, I have been in one. And they have no space in them. The fact that they even put back seats in them is a joke designed to prevent people from maximizing what little space they have.
Second, since I am lazy, let us compare the the new Mini to the Fiat 500, as I have figures for those two on hand.
  1. You can fit 2 rows of 6 footers in the 500. To do that in the Mini would require you to first break the legs of the people to sit in the back seat.
  2. The Fiat 500 has more trunk space than the Mini does.
  3. Despite both of those factors, the Fiat 500 is a considerably smaller car, being about 6 inches shorter and an inch narrower.
An interesting thing happens when you compare the new Mini to the old Mini as well, though I have no figures:
Cutout_mini.jpg

compared to this:
miniclubman2008800x600wjn1.jpg

That is the Clubman, as well, which is half a foot longer than the normal Mini. And it still has less leg room.
And here is the far smaller than the normal Mini, much less the Clubman, Fiat 500:
fiat5002008800x600wallpbs7.jpg


But you get what you pay for, the Mini is worlds ahead of a Scion xA and a Toyota Yaris.
But is it $6,000 better than the Rabbit? Much less a GTi?

And the interior? The R50's interior was a bit "meh" at best but the R56's is quite good. It feels very solid.
Okay. Good to know.

I would honestly like to know in America what you think is better? Sure if we lived in Europe we could go all day with cars but there are slim pickings in the states.
I don't feel that gives the Mini a free ride, but regardless:
Honda Fit. VW Rabbit. Mazda 3. If you were viewing it more as a day to day car rather than a hot hatch, it falls even lower.
 
And I haven't heard anything to the contrary, and in fact have heard better things about the interior quality. But the interior of the old new Mini was just junk, and that was my point. Driving excitement did not mask the glaring flaws that that car had.

And as I said the older R50 Mini's had interior issues, I'm driving an older one right now while my car is out for service. And no it's nothing the Mini factory did to the car, the dealership scratched my bumper putting on my driving lights, which is why it's out of commission right now.

First of all, there are a whole lot of cars sold in Europe that are about a foot longer than the Mini. Second of all, I wasn't referring to the car's size as being one of the problems.

Maybe I misunderstood your statment:
Toronado
Beamer Mini fails completely at being a Mini...Such as space efficiency

To me that is what someone says when they are complaining about the size of the Mini. And just as a comparison I've gone though and looked up the lengths of other cars in it's class and I can not find any vehicle sold in America that is smaller then it. It still accomplishes what Mini set out to do...be small.

First of all, while I have not driven a Mini, I have been in one. And they have no space in them. The fact that they even put back seats in them is a joke designed to prevent people from maximizing what little space they have.[/quote]

I'm sorry but that is incorrect. I've had 3 other people in my vehicle and they have all told me it's roomier then the Blazer was and the Mini is 30 some inches shorter. My dad who is 6'2" rode in the back on the way home from the dealership and didn't complain. I don't understand how people can be on about a car they haven't driven or lived with. Remember I'm coming from an SUV and the downgraded size isn't even an issue...in fact I believe I can fit more in the Cooper then I could in the Blazer.

[*]You can fit 2 rows of 6 footers in the 500. To do that in the Mini would require you to first break the legs of the people to sit in the back seat.

Incorrect. Mini even has a video on their website showing you that you can do that.

http://www.miniusa.com/#/learn/FACTS_FEATURES_SPECS/dimensions/dimensionsInterior-i

[*]The Fiat 500 has more trunk space than the Mini does.

Do you have the numbers somewhere, I can not find them online? The Cooper has 160L of rear cargo room according to the official brochure, and that's with the seats up. Or 5.7 cubic feet.

But is it $6,000 better than the Rabbit? Much less a GTi?

The Rabbit is bigger and isn't in the same class, however I drove both the Cooper and the Rabbit quite a bit and you see what I ended up with. The Rabbit did not have the same feel as the Cooper and I didn't think it was something I wanted to live with. Comparing the GTi to a Cooper is just dumb, ones a hot hatch while one is just a micro car.

I don't feel that gives the Mini a free ride, but regardless:
Honda Fit. VW Rabbit. Mazda 3. If you were viewing it more as a day to day car rather than a hot hatch, it falls even lower.

I didn't say it gave the Mini a free ride but we just do not have small cars in the states. Honestly the Rabbit and Mazda 3 aren't in the same class, both are great cars, I don't disagree, I just thought the Mini was better. The Fit was good but it just wasn't as sporty as I would've liked, plus it gave off the aura of something my grandma would drive.

The Cooper is not a hot hatch, the Cooper S is which is something I do not know a ton about, other then the fact it's twice as pricey on insurance and has torque steer.

Look as I've said I have no problem with people disliking the Cooper, I mean everyone can not like the same car which is fine. But at least dislike it for reasons that are subjective, like looks or performance. I just do not think it's fair to go on about the size and quality when it is just is not true. Go over to NA Motoring and you'll see thousands of happy Cooper owners that are problem free.
 
How in the hell was your father comfortable in the back of the mini? My uncles R50 is no good for anything more than 45 minutes.
 
How in the hell was your father comfortable in the back of the mini? My uncles R50 is no good for anything more than 45 minutes.

The R56 is bigger and roomier then the R50 was, I don't know as much as I should about the older chassis Cooper. But it really isn't as small and uncomfortable as people think. I've sat back there as well when I let my parents take it for a spin and I really didn't think it was that bad either.

Would I want to ride from Detroit to Miami like that? Probably not.
 
To me that is what someone says when they are complaining about the size of the Mini.
Space efficiency as in interior space.

I've had 3 other people in my vehicle and they have all told me it's roomier then the Blazer was and the Mini is 30 some inches shorter. My dad who is 6'2" rode in the back on the way home from the dealership and didn't complain. I don't understand how people can be on about a car they haven't driven or lived with. Remember I'm coming from an SUV and the downgraded size isn't even an issue...in fact I believe I can fit more in the Cooper then I could in the Blazer.
As a person who drives a Blazer (granted, a 4 door 1st gen Blazer, but still a Blazer) that has tried to ride in the back seat of a Mini, I simply cannot believe it to be roomier than your Blazer.

Incorrect. Mini even has a video on their website showing you that you can do that.
I'm not a 6 footer, and my knees were deep into the back of the front seat. All I'm saying.

Do you have the numbers somewhere, I can not find them online? The Cooper has 160L of rear cargo room according to the official brochure, and that's with the seats up. Or 5.7 cubic feet.
185 liters, or 6.6 cubic feet.

Comparing the GTi to a Cooper is just dumb, ones a hot hatch while one is just a micro car.
They cost the same, and have similar driving manners. But one is much bigger and far faster and built to a higher standard. You have to realize that I am a value shopper: I am incredibly cheap. I'd rather sacrifice a marginal amount of driving excitement for a better product. The fact that you wanted driving fun over everything else is okay, but that isn't my bag.

But at least dislike it for reasons that are subjective, like looks or performance.
I disagree. Liking something for objective reasons leads to less arguments, and makes more sense on the whole to me.

I just do not think it's fair to go on about the size and quality when it is just is not true. Go over to NA Motoring and you'll see thousands of happy Cooper owners that are problem free.
But the space efficiency and quality problems were (and in the first case, still) very much true. Just because the owners don't acknowledge that there is space problems doesn't mean that there aren't any. It simply means that they knew that they were there when they bought the car or they are ignoring them. For example, Hummer owners don't constantly whine over how poor mileage their cars get because they knew when they bought them that they would get poor mileage.

Joey D
The R56 is bigger and roomier then the R50 was, I don't know as much as I should about the older chassis Cooper.
By a measly 2 cubic inches.
 
Actually I wanted fuel mileage, which is something the Cooper does better then just about all it's competition as far as I know with an EPA rated 40mpg on the highway. In the city I get 30 according to the little computer thing on the tach, and that's with spirited driving.

But anyways getting back on course, what is the fuel economy on the petrol version of the Fiat? Obviously is has a smaller engine and is lighter so I'm going to guess high 40's on the highway or even low 50's. There is a diesel version as well I'm guessing. Be curious to see how it compares to the Cooper D.
 
The R56 is bigger and roomier then the R50 was, I don't know as much as I should about the older chassis Cooper. But it really isn't as small and uncomfortable as people think. I've sat back there as well when I let my parents take it for a spin and I really didn't think it was that bad either.

Would I want to ride from Detroit to Miami like that? Probably not.

I've heard that the Clubman makes it liveable. :D:tup: One of those would be great.
 
I've heard that the Clubman makes it liveable. :D:tup: One of those would be great.

I don't like the Clubman, it looks goofy. I'm waiting for Motor City Mini to get one on the lot (should be within the month) so I can take it for a test drive.
 
@Toronado-

They don't acknowledge the space problems because they don't need the space, they'd probably be happy in a smart.
 
Obviously is has a smaller engine and is lighter so I'm going to guess high 40's on the highway or even low 50's. There is a diesel version as well I'm guessing. Be curious to see how it compares to the Cooper D.
This site spits out 46 for the base engine, 56 for the diesel and 37 for 1.4L.
They put the new Mini D at 52, with the Mini One coming in at 41.3. It doesn't say anything about the Cooper, however.
 
The Mini is not sub-par junk, I'm guessing you've probably never driven one based solely on that statement.
He's 17. What sort of bias were you expecting?
 
I really do not care for how that interior looks either, it looks cheap...like something out of a mid 90's GM small car.

I'm only quoting this out of irony; GM must wish it could design fun interiors so well for its small cars, since their tie-up with Fiat is done. But seriously, not a mention of the Mini's rediculously over-sized tach? Goofy.

It doesn't fail at being a Mini, why is is so hard for people to understand it is no longer safe to have something the size of the Leyland Mini running around? Cars have to have airbags now and the redesigned front of the R56 is to stick with the pedestrian laws in Europe. The Mini is still one of the smallest vehicles you can buy in the states.

I think what Toronado means is that, in the original essence of the Issigonis Mini, the new car is a failure. That car was created as a utilitarian design first, and the sporty, star-driven era only came later. BMW designed the new car as an over-priced fashion accessory first. Not saying that was a dumb move; financially for the company, it was brilliant. But it doesn't follow the spirit of the old one at all. And it's entirely safe to have cars far smaller than the Mini on sale. The C1/107/Aygo triplets in Europe are a good example.

I do agree they are pricey for what they are, they are a few thousand more then others in their class. But you get what you pay for, the Mini is worlds ahead of a Scion xA and a Toyota Yaris.

See my last comment on the fashion accessory bit. You get exactly what you will always get with a BMW product; you're paying a premium for a badge. I don't understand how people can harp on BMW for that little fact but ignore it with the Mini.

Go over to NA Motoring and you'll see thousands of happy Cooper owners that are problem free.

Go to any (insert marque and model) online community and you'll see the same thing. I don't see how that proves anything.
 
I'm only quoting this out of irony; GM must wish it could design fun interiors so well for its small cars, since their tie-up with Fiat is done. But seriously, not a mention of the Mini's rediculously over-sized tach? Goofy.

Guessing you've never been in a Mini, the tach is not very big at all. The speedometer on the the other hand is another story.

mini_cooper_s_interior_17_08_06.jpg


It's meant to be "retro" and pay tribute to the classic Mini. I personally don't really like it, but it's a novelty that people instantly associate with a Mini.

I think what Toronado means is that, in the original essence of the Issigonis Mini, the new car is a failure. That car was created as a utilitarian design first, and the sporty, star-driven era only came later. BMW designed the new car as an over-priced fashion accessory first. Not saying that was a dumb move; financially for the company, it was brilliant. But it doesn't follow the spirit of the old one at all. And it's entirely safe to have cars far smaller than the Mini on sale. The C1/107/Aygo triplets in Europe are a good example.

For Europe it might be safe, but Europe isn't the entire world last time I checked. The Mini is sold just about everywhere. But with increasing safety regulations cars are going to be getting bigger and bigger, as well as heavier. The Mini still is one of the smallest cars in America (I can't find one smaller) and one of the lightest.

I honestly do not understand how a Fiat 500 is going to make it on American shores. People already are oblivious while driving and don't pay any attention to small cars (like the Mini). I can't see this being an overly safe move. I have no qualms about the car actually being safe however, seeing as the Mini is fairly safe.

See my last comment on the fashion accessory bit. You get exactly what you will always get with a BMW product; you're paying a premium for a badge. I don't understand how people can harp on BMW for that little fact but ignore it with the Mini.

How did I ignore this? You quoted me saying that I thought the car was pricey compared to similar models. You are just looking for an argument here. I agree the car is way more expensive then just about everyone of it's other competitors.

I believe that you do get what you pay for with the car, it feels more solid and has add-ons that many other small cars wouldn't have. HID lights spring to mind as well as a six speed gear box.

Go to any (insert marque and model) online community and you'll see the same thing. I don't see how that proves anything.

Not true, go to www.s10forum.com and you'll see a bunch of unhappy S-Truck owners. Granted they still buy the vehicles, but they will complain about them till no end. It's kind of how I picture an Xbox 360 forum.
 
Happy to spring to the defence (sic) of the Mini here. I was part of one of the supplier development teams for R50/R53. It certainly looked the part, and the only quibble I had was that it wasn't a practical proposition for a family of today's girth. You could fit four in the original mini (7, actually, as a fun night with one of my girly friends and her Mini 'Bert' proved) but fitting four in the new Mini was never as satisfying an exercise.

However, at least the engine was in the same place and it did have more space and was as fun. Compare this to the (hawk, spit) new Beetle, and the phrase 'style over function' does not apply to the Mini. The new 500 gets away with it because it's better packaged. Yes it is cute, which makes up for the fact that you could buy a better appliance in the Panda.

Both new cars drive well - almost as much fun as the originals, although obviously a zillion-gerbillion-squillion-hyperbolillion times safer and more quiet. And if you want to see what a well driven Mini can do: www.dpcars.net

If you can chase down a Porsche 911 in one, then it's a capable tool. I expect to see monsterous 200hp Abarth show exercise versions soon doing the same thing. :D
 
Guessing you've never been in a Mini, the tach is not very big at all. The speedometer on the the other hand is another story.

mini_cooper_s_interior_17_08_06.jpg


It's meant to be "retro" and pay tribute to the classic Mini. I personally don't really like it, but it's a novelty that people instantly associate with a Mini.

Woops, brain-fart there, I meant the speedo. It's comically oversized, and I know it's meant as a "tribute", but like everything else about the car, it's blown out of proportion. It definitely is associated with the Mini, but I have not met an central instrument display that I've liked yet. I understand that buying the nav system moves it to its proper place though, which is an awfully expensive way to fix a silly design foible.

For Europe it might be safe, but Europe isn't the entire world last time I checked. The Mini is sold just about everywhere. But with increasing safety regulations cars are going to be getting bigger and bigger, as well as heavier. The Mini still is one of the smallest cars in America (I can't find one smaller) and one of the lightest.

Woops, forgot. US = world. The triplets were designed to be sold in a variety of markets, although I will admit I don't really know how far that really panned out. Plus, you guys are getting the Smart soon, we've had it for a few years and there hasn't been anything terrible about its safety, even considering the giant SUVs that are so much more rare across the pond. It's entirely possible to design a better-packaged car smaller than the Mini. That rear suspension, while brilliant for spirited driving, is just one aspect.

I honestly do not understand how a Fiat 500 is going to make it on American shores. People already are oblivious while driving and don't pay any attention to small cars (like the Mini). I can't see this being an overly safe move. I have no qualms about the car actually being safe however, seeing as the Mini is fairly safe.

I suppose this really deserves a seperate argument, but drivers on the whole being stupid doesn't mean cars aren't safe. We just need better training at the wheel, something I definitely won't argue with. The average size of cars up here is noticeably smaller than south of the border (Civics and Corollas far outnumber Camries and Accords, for instance), so around here at least, the Mini may be small but it still is large enough for people to pay attention. Same goes with the Fit and Yaris, and especially the ForTwo because it looks so strange.

How did I ignore this? You quoted me saying that I thought the car was pricey compared to similar models. You are just looking for an argument here. I agree the car is way more expensive then just about everyone of it's other competitors.

I believe that you do get what you pay for with the car, it feels more solid and has add-ons that many other small cars wouldn't have. HID lights spring to mind as well as a six speed gear box.

"Just about"? Heh. It feels solid because it's heavy for its size. And having add-ons just increases the price further. It seems our market (North America) gets left behind with small car options though; HID lights and six-speed boxes are, again, pretty common over the pond. Spec-for-spec, as a small car, the new Mini is too expensive to be a really useful, space-efficient car for a small family. For a single person, and bringing sportiness up the desires list, yeah, it's great. But it's not the every-car the old one was.

Not true, go to www.s10forum.com and you'll see a bunch of unhappy S-Truck owners. Granted they still buy the vehicles, but they will complain about them till no end. It's kind of how I picture an Xbox 360 forum.

:lol: I will give you that. But go to a Skyline forum, or a Supra one, or Camaros or Vettes. You'll always find a ton of pro-that car people.

All this said, I really hope that BMW brings over the Efficient Dynamics stuff for the Mini range. Well, that and the diesel. I really wouldn't mind one with Prius-beating economy, not to mention CO2 output.
 
That's the thing. The MKI Focus is not a bad car, it's just that the MKII is spectacularly good.

Quoted for truth.

The R56 is bigger and roomier then the R50 was, I don't know as much as I should about the older chassis Cooper. But it really isn't as small and uncomfortable as people think. I've sat back there as well when I let my parents take it for a spin and I really didn't think it was that bad either.

I'm sorry but my 6'0" 225lb frame simply can not and will not fit in the back of any Mini, and this includes the new one. It just isn't going to happen. And yes I had rode in one as of recently, and it was in the front seat while the girls were in the back. *edit*Because I couldn't fit in the back. Probably should mention that.
 
The speedometer on the the other hand is another story.

mini_cooper_s_interior_17_08_06.jpg

The first time I sat in a new one I swear the speedo was larger than the dinner plates I have at home...
 
Hmm, possibly I should comment on the topic. The 500 is brilliant and I can't wait to see it over the pond.
 
Woops, forgot. US = world. The triplets were designed to be sold in a variety of markets, although I will admit I don't really know how far that really panned out. Plus, you guys are getting the Smart soon, we've had it for a few years and there hasn't been anything terrible about its safety, even considering the giant SUVs that are so much more rare across the pond. It's entirely possible to design a better-packaged car smaller than the Mini. That rear suspension, while brilliant for spirited driving, is just one aspect.

That's a rather unjustified comment, I never said US = World. Many Aussie members tell me there are just as many large vehicles in their part of the world. These are the sort of comments that make foreigners look bad to the Americans (granted I don't believe they are all like that).

The Smart car will not sell in the US so I do not see why it would be brought over here. Plus I would love to see who would win in a fight between the Smart and say a Hummer H2. There is a point when a car is way to small for the market it's being offered in, and vice versa with the large vehicles...like owning a Land Rover in London.

"Just about"? Heh. It feels solid because it's heavy for its size. And having add-ons just increases the price further. It seems our market (North America) gets left behind with small car options though; HID lights and six-speed boxes are, again, pretty common over the pond. Spec-for-spec, as a small car, the new Mini is too expensive to be a really useful, space-efficient car for a small family. For a single person, and bringing sportiness up the desires list, yeah, it's great. But it's not the every-car the old one was.

All cars are heavy in today's market, I'm guessing it has something to do with the airbags and all the computers that are now put onto cars. Plus BMW never said they were going to design and build the exact same car the classic Mini's were. They said they were going to design something with influences of the old one, which is exactly what they did.

:lol: I will give you that. But go to a Skyline forum, or a Supra one, or Camaros or Vettes. You'll always find a ton of pro-that car people.

Those are enthusiast cars, I really don't consider a 1.6L hatchback an enthusiast car. Sure it's sporty-ish and has a distinct look to it (whether good or bad is up to the buyer) but it's still an economy car and I think many of us realise that. You'll always find a few hardcores that think they drive the best thing since sliced bread, but that's with any car.

All this said, I really hope that BMW brings over the Efficient Dynamics stuff for the Mini range. Well, that and the diesel. I really wouldn't mind one with Prius-beating economy, not to mention CO2 output.

The Mini D is already out in Europe, BMW claims it is as clean and just as efficient as the Prius.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=2766099&postcount=61

Hopefully it's brought over to North America, but for some reason we shun diesels.
 
** Damn it I hit quote instead of edit

JCE3000GT
I'm sorry but my 6'0" 225lb frame simply can not and will not fit in the back of any Mini, and this includes the new one. It just isn't going to happen. And yes I had rode in one as of recently, and it was in the front seat while the girls were in the back. *edit*Because I couldn't fit in the back. Probably should mention that.

Really? My dad is around the same size and didn't complain. He said he wouldn't want to ride in it across the country but for short around trips it's not the worse thing in the world...unlike the Blazer was.

But about 97% of the time I'm in the car by myself so there was no reason to invest in a people carrier. I think many American car buyer lose sight of this. We have a family friend who just bought an Excursion because she has three kids and said she needed the room...I'm still laughing.

The first time I sat in a new one I swear the speedo was larger than the dinner plates I have at home...

When I get the car back from the shop I will measure it, but I do agree it is quite large.
 
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