Incident Analysis

  • Thread starter Woodybobs
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Woodybobs

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Ireland
Ireland
Hi folks. I'm looking for your opinions on the incident in the video. My view is that the person in front of me has started sliding and as a result slows to 20kmh below the normal apex speed. I had already decided to follow him through the corner to try set up a move into or out of the final corner. I also had to defend against the person behind me. I didn't have time to react to his sudden loss of speed and tagged him causing him to spin. At the time I felt there was nothing I could do so I continued on. Upon reviewing the replay I still think I wasn't at fault and it was simply a racing incident. My opponent has a differing view. What do you guys think? Should I have waited and given him the position?
 
Woodybobs
Hi folks. I'm looking for your opinions on the incident in the video. My view is that the person in front of me has started sliding and as a result slows to 20kmh below the normal apex speed. I had already decided to follow him through the corner to try set up a move into or out of the final corner. I also had to defend against the person behind me. I didn't have time to react to his sudden loss of speed and tagged him causing him to spin. At the time I felt there was nothing I could do so I continued on. Upon reviewing the replay I still think I wasn't at fault and it was simply a racing incident. My opponent has a differing view. What do you guys think? Should I have waited and given him the position?
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I think it was definitely your fault, you didn't attempt to slow down as you approached his car and even as you hit him you still didn't use the brakes at all. When following close behind someone in a corner you always need to be using the brake to maintain a safe distance and if you see them slide that distance should be slightly bigger than usual to avoid hitting them as you did. We're not talking huge distances here, but the distance really does depend on how accurate a driver you are.

The key thing that stood out in your explanation is that you said you didn't have time to react, but you don't want to be reacting, to have good racecraft you need to be predicting, so in this case you need to predict that he will be going slower than usual mid corner due to the slide. I'd recommend practicing this as best as you can as if you can accurately predict what is going to happen before it happens based on the behaviours of the cars around you it will really help your racecraft as you'll have seconds to act instead of tenths of a second. 👍
 
Yeah this is just something you have to be aware of, if your behind you have to react it’s not like he could get out the way of you, for me it’s anticipating what’s about to happen and just then deciding what’s the best action

You’ve got to take avoiding action cos you didn’t even slow down at all in real life in your own car you wouldn’t keep going into something
I guess you just didn’t clock he was sliding until too late and then clipped him, ideally you just open up the steering and brake and should be able to avoid him
If someone hits you while your doing that that’s their fault

I wouldn’t wait for him it’s just one of those things not much you could do

You always gotta be looking for things like this the more aware you are the more you can be safe and take advantage. If you anticipate an incident you can position yourself accordingly
 
Thanks for the responses. I can see now where I've gone wrong. I expected him to be gone by the time I got there and when I realised that wasn't going to be the case it was too late. I haven't anticipated what the outcome of his slide would be. The time to act was much earlier. I live and learn. Anyway, the oven has just dinged. My humble pie should be perfectly baked.
 
You could've slowed down more to try and avoid the accident. You saw him sliding but you stopped using the break. However, the accident was caused by the other driver because he was the one sliding. I think you share some blame.
 
I always go by the thought of it’s the driver behind that has to make the clean pass. It’s not the leading driver’s job to facilitate that, but they also need to know when to relinquish the position. And when door to door, always leave a car’s width of space. Don’t be that asshole who slams the door shut after trailing driver already committed to the pass and had pulled along side or the equally as much of an asshole, the brake zone weaver. Special places in hell for them.
 
NevilleNobody
It's his fault more than yours, if you slow up you get gobbled up by the pack, I think you figured he'd slide off and he saved it, sort of.
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I think if there was nobody behind me I would've done more to avoid hitting him. I suppose I was just hoping things would work out when I should have been taking steps to make sure they did. Essentially my job was to not hit him. I can see that I had enough time to brake if I made the decision early enough. I shouldn't have let the guys behind me influence my decision so much that I risked taking someone out. If I've done all I can in trying to avoid him and I lose some positions because of it, so be it. That's the luck of the draw sometimes. When I started this thread I was sure most would side with me but a couple of helpful posts have made me realise what is expected of me in that situation.
 
@Woodybobs , great thread, and impressed with your modesty.
Yes, it is his own fault for sliding, but, if he had a chance to save it... it was spoiled by your decision to risk it and "see what happens".
I'll give you credit, you did not get into the gas and simply drive through him... on the other hand you released the brake... what to do what to do?
Heat of the moment deal... see it all the time in real racing... and hindsight is always 20/20 so it's easy for me to sit here and say you should have been on the brake in an effort to avoid, but, I'll not sit here and tell you i would have 100% made the right decision either. It's a tough one.
Interesting how you ended up loosing both positions anyways... is that karma at work? Ha?
Anyways, if I put myself in the other drivers seat...
I take responsibility for loosing control of my car, and going into a slide... I have faith that my fellow racer will avoid me, but, hey, I realize I'm sideways on a track with cars racing for position close behind... yep, it's their responsibility to get around me, but, I've not put them in a position to do so without risk and uncertainty on their side.
I'm not happy that you tapped me, but, it was me that put you in that position.
In the heat of the moment I kick my own butt for loosing the car, forcing others to try and avoid me and the inevitable.
Watching the replay, I wish you would have dragged the brake a little longer, but, am certain I would have still lost all 3 positions anyways.

I think he is totally out of line for being upset with you, he lost control of his car and deals with the consequences.
On the other hand, a little more brake, maybe there would have been no contact. maybe he would not have fully spun, maybe he would not have lost all 3 spots... maybe... maybe if he'd kept control of his car we'd not be talking, and maybe if he was mature enough to take responsibility for his own mistakes he'd see he put you in a rough spot, and you lost 2 positions as a result, and would be apologizing to you rather than being a child and shaming you for something he initiated.

He should not have lost control of his car.
You should not have hit him.
At least you didn't gas it through him.
You both lost a bunch of spots as a result.
Stuff happens.
Racing incident.

Getting out the soapbox.../
I'm betting you both ghosted for those other 2 cars to pounce so quickly...
Maybe if ghosting was removed there would have been more carnage...
Maybe if ghosting was removed we'd have all learned to not charge into these situations and there would have been no carnage...
Maybe the uncertainty and inconsistent ghosting system has trained us to "game" these situations...
Now I'm not blaming ghosting, but it does little to teach people to watch what's going one well ahead, and build proper accident avoidance awareness/techniques.
 
@cleanLX To be fair to him he definitely felt aggrieved but he didn't throw a tantrum. He acknowledged his part in it early on. I'd say the difference is that his was a driving error whereas my mistake was a conscious decision. I can't be sure if I expected him to ghost but I knew it was a possibility. I don't know if it affected my decision but it certainly does at other times. It could be that all those other experiences have affected my thought process for this incident. Perhaps if ghosting didn't happen at all I'd have been more likely to brake.
 
Just a racing incident, no ones at fault. If you had slowed down to give yourself seconds to react you not only kill your lap time but you would had been passed. You have to pressure the guy in front to make a mistake which you will not do sitting a couple seconds back. Not as if you hit him on purpose.
 
Tillbeast
Just a racing incident, no ones at fault. If you had slowed down to give yourself seconds to react you not only kill your lap time but you would had been passed. You have to pressure the guy in front to make a mistake which you will not do sitting a couple seconds back. Not as if you hit him on purpose.
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I don’t think anyone has said he should have sat 2 seconds behind, his distance entering the corner was fine, what would have given him 2 seconds to react is if he was able to predict the drivers slow apex speed when they started to slide.
 
So I'm going to pick on the lead car for a moment.
Lap 17 of 17 in a FIA race (aka, serious stuff).
Tires are shot, 3 turns left on the last lap.
Several cars in hot pursuit (guessing they all had better much better tires as did @Woodybobs).
The lead car didn't really defend, but didn't take the racing line either... poor choice... rather than force @Woodybobs into his game, he let @Woodybobs take control of the corner.
The lead car starts to slide on corner entry, and rather than drive it out (he never does counter steer), decides to lay off the throttle and attempt to stick it down the inside...
... well, guess what? You see a car slide on corner entry you go inside, where the other car is not headed... but the lead car decided to turn his slide into a block... no longer at race pace... and going for a piece of track that should be the safe zone for those following...
Lack of self preservation? or Tempting fate?
Either way asking for trouble... inviting the inevitable.
Had the lead car added a little opposite lock to catch the slide, and powered out ever so slightly, he'd have excellent track position on the next left, (poor pace, but good position) leaving him in a good spot to defend into the last "real" left.
He's on wore out tires, getting ran down, and decided to stack it up rather than race...
And as a result, he got spun.
He should have either...
Defended to the inside, forcing everyone out... and would have gotten the run down to the next left... which would have given him the run to the last left...
or
Taken the racing line, and simply given the faster car a clean opportunity though...
Lets face it, at least 2 of those cars were coming through on the last straight anyways, no way lead car was going to get any "drive off" the last left with those tires.

He was trying to defend an un-defend-able position in hopes of the faster cars behind getting anxious and creating their own issues.
Instead of loosing 1 maybe 2 spots he lost 5 or more (video was stopped, 5 for sure).

Poor decision, poor reaction to the slide, Woodybobs is not off the hook for the contact, but lead car created his own fate.

Sometimes late in a race you admit to yourself...
I "know" I can finish 11th or 12th here...
Or...
I can "tempt fate" and try and hang on to 9th... with no tires and 3 turns to go with 4 fast cars up my butt...

If you decide to tempt fate and end up 15th, possibly 20th... you need to look in the mirror and ask that was worth it, or would you do it differently?
Me, I'd take the sure 12th every time over risking 20th... especially so in a "points series"
 
Woodybobs
Thanks for the responses. I can see now where I've gone wrong. I expected him to be gone by the time I got there and when I realised that wasn't going to be the case it was too late.
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Sorry, I don't quite buy that. By no means do I think that you were being malicious but you were running an irregular line on the inside as if you were trying to get your nose on the inside of him in the apex. Surprise, that's exactly what happened. Even the lead car is running middle track, I'm assuming because you kept trying to barge on the inside prior forcing him to take the slower more defensive line (or he was just using his rear view mirror to drive and blew the turn on accident). Had you taken the faster natural line you would have dodged him on the outside or passed him on the straight.
 
BallPtPenTheif
Sorry, I don't quite buy that. By no means do I think that you were being malicious but you were running an irregular line on the inside as if you were trying to get your nose on the inside of him in the apex. Surprise, that's exactly what happened. Even the lead car is running middle track, I'm assuming because you kept trying to barge on the inside prior forcing him to take the slower more defensive line (or he was just using his rear view mirror to drive and blew the turn on accident). Had you taken the faster natural line you would have dodged him on the outside or passed him on the straight.
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Your assessment is completely wrong in this case. Had he not slid I was not going fast enough to do a barge pass. I didn't over shoot the apex. If you look at the replay again you'll see I took a defensive line so those behind me couldn't get a look up my inside.
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BallPtPenTheif
I'm assuming because you kept trying to barge on the inside prior forcing him to take the slower more defensive line
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This is nothing but a wild stab in the dark in an attempt to give your narrative some credibility.
 
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Woodybobs
This is nothing but a wild stab in the dark in an attempt to give your narrative some credibility.
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Narrative? This isn't a political conspiracy being spun into nonsense. I'm simply stating my opinion and nothing I stated gives me more credibility than my opinion. Did I make up personal accolades or cite erroneous rules to "give my narrative credibility"? What do you even mean by that sentence?

I already stated that I didn't think you were being malicious. You made the post and asked for feedback. I gave it to you. Don't get upset because you didn't like my analysis. Clearly you're sensitive about these sorts of discussions so I'll try to remember not to give you feedback in the future.
 
BallPtPenTheif
, I'm assuming because you kept trying to barge on the inside prior
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How is this feedback? It's not in the video. In the messages we exchanged my opponent did not accuse me of anything except for causing him to spin in that particular corner. If he did I would have put it in the video.
BallPtPenTheif
Clearly you're sensitive about these sorts of discussions so I'll try to remember not to give you feedback in the future.
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I think you'll find that is not the case. Everyone else has given feedback based on what's in the video. I listened and accepted my mistakes. You've simply concocted a scenario that is not in the video.
 
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