Increase HP VS. Weight Reduction

[Iropan]

If due to PP limitations we could only carry one of the two, which would you choose?

I've been operating on the assumption that weight reduction is better, since it will have an effect on everything (acceleration, braking, cornering), while engine power is only useful while using the accelerator, but i've been running time trials and i think i get better times on cars without the weight reduction.

 

[Shadow1130]

Well, If only having to chose one... I'd go with engine power, preferably a Turbo kit. The extra weight helps in the weight transfer process as the car rolls through the corners. Not much else for me to add I guess, I'll just jibber jabber

 

[trackripper123]

If the car is under 900-1000kg, add weight until it reaches that threshold and then add power, otherwise usually removing weight improves lap times the most I think.

 

[seanneedscar]

Many variables to consider

mainly, the track you are racing on.

the type of cars you are racing against..

Although overall I agree with trackripper123, when a car is under 900 kilo's it just becomes underpowered against others in its PP level, with more weight and more HP. 1000kg is a good weight for a car

 

[CSLACR]

If the car is under 900-1000kg, add weight until it reaches that threshold and then add power, otherwise usually removing weight improves lap times the most I think.

I'll dub this the token primary answer for the OP.
There are other correct answer and factors, but this is the prime one based on how the PP system works.

Of course depending on the PP level used and tires/track it will vary, but at least 7 out of 10 car/track/tire combos favor lighter weight in GT5.

 

[Iropan]

However cars of around 1000 Kg. are unusual in the mid to high PP levels (from 500 upwards let's say). So that situation is clear now, but what happens when you have a car like the Aston Martin DB9 for example: approx 480 PPs, and weighing around 1700-1800Kg.
If you were trying to set it up for a 500PP race, you don't have much wiggle room. All PP spent on weight reduction? All PP spent on HP increase? A mix of both?

What i'm thinking is maybe a car that heavy should not compete in 500PP. So maybe there are "weight appropriate" guidelines?

 

[CSLACR]

However cars of around 1000 Kg. are unusual in the mid to high PP levels (from 500 upwards let's say). So that situation is clear now, but what happens when you have a car like the Aston Martin DB9 for example: approx 480 PPs, and weighing around 1700-1800Kg.
If you were trying to set it up for a 500PP race, you don't have much wiggle room. All PP spent on weight reduction? All PP spent on HP increase? A mix of both?

What i'm thinking is maybe a car that heavy should not compete in 500PP. So maybe there are "weight appropriate" guidelines?

Minimum weight, without a shred of doubt. Probably faster in that case on every single track in the game, with the sole possible exception being Sarthe. This goes for all cars that are 1400+ KG's in the game to my knowledge, at most tracks on most tire types.
Low PP/Tires is actually the easiest way to need power more than low weight, we saw this in the 400-420PP Nurburgring shootout.(CS tires too)

First thing you need to know is, physical specifications mean literally nothing in GT5.
There are no "weight appropriate" guidelines, PP racing is determined first by which car PD blessed the most, and then setup. Surely some cars are "too heavy" for 500PP, but those same cars are "too heavy" for every PP.
GTR's, heavy as hell, corner like God himself. McLaren MP4-12C's are lightweight supercars and have absolutely no grip.(compared to other supercars of equal value) No chance at keeping up with a GTR at identical specs on most if not all tracks though. JGTC NSX's were known for cornering better than other JGTC cars, and yet the Premium ones we have corner like crap compared to all the rest. PD makes **** up, what can I say?

 

[CyKosis1973]

PD makes **** up, what can I say?

Word.

There is no one definative answer, OP, but for the car you listed above, take CSL's advice, dump the weight. The car has plenty of beans to muscle it's was down the road. It'll do it better without the dead body in the boot (trunk)...

{Cy}

 

[praiano63]

Minimum weight, without a shred of doubt. Probably faster in that case on every single track in the game, with the sole possible exception being Sarthe. This goes for all cars that are 1400+ KG's in the game to my knowledge, at most tracks on most tire types.
Low PP/Tires is actually the easiest way to need power more than low weight, we saw this in the 400-420PP Nurburgring shootout.(CS tires too)

First thing you need to know is, physical specifications mean literally nothing in GT5.
There are no "weight appropriate" guidelines, PP racing is determined first by which car PD blessed the most, and then setup. Surely some cars are "too heavy" for 500PP, but those same cars are "too heavy" for every PP.
GTR's, heavy as hell, corner like God himself. McLaren MP4-12C's are lightweight supercars and have absolutely no grip.(compared to other supercars of equal value) No chance at keeping up with a GTR at identical specs on most if not all tracks though. JGTC NSX's were known for cornering better than other JGTC cars, and yet the Premium ones we have corner like crap compared to all the rest. PD makes **** up, what can I say?

Totally agree with this for heavy cars ,weight reduction is always better. Lighter cars lower PP poor grip tires a little ballast help. I remember my LOTUS ELISE 111R `04 // 420PP // Comfort soft in the ring shootout, i add 60 kg ballast to reach 920 kg for 172 HP.
I played with weight and power helped by my ghost till i reach this faster KG/power ratio. (this take time... a lot.)
I remember also the 600PP seasonal still on Nordschleife 24H with the chaparral 2J ,race tires + downforce ,where the top 50 cars added some ballast too, aroud 40 kg if i remember.
Each light car under 1000 kg is a special case. The best thing to do is to test with the help of the ghost offline ,under the specials conditions you want your car tuned for.

><(((((°>°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°

 

[Iropan]

I did some experimenting:

I tuned 2 Callaway C12 '03 to 500PP, one with 3 levels of weight reduction, and another one leaving the original weight and just adding horsepower. All other aspects were maintained identical between the two cars.

Callaway 1: 386 BHP - 1233Kg. - 500PP
Callaway 2: 434 BHP - 1480Kg. - 500PP

I took them both for a time trial on Trial Mountain. After 10-15 minutes, these were the best times i could achieve with each:

Callaway 1: 1:28.165
Callaway 2: 1:28.961

It's just a reference, but a pretty good difference between them i'd say, bigger than i expected.

 

[CSLACR]

^^ - Heavy car = Reduce weight.

Praiano never lies.

 

[MrGrado]

I compared some laps I did with different cars using the data logger to learn where the heavier car was slower and if it was faster in any sections at all.

Both cars were 550PP, one was Nissan R390 road car, one was Aston Martin DB9, the track was nurburgring nordschleife.

I was surprised just how equal both cars were in performance over most of the circuit. The DB9 was slightly slower in the middle of just about every corner, but would accelerate out of all the corners well enough to exit with the same speed as the R390.

There were some sections of the circuit that the R390 did way faster than the DB9, each time it was because the DB9 didn't negotiate a high speed corner as good, and then would carry much less speed through a whole section of track.

The DB9 was much faster down the first half of the back straight, but because the R390 is more slippery through the air, it was almost as fast again by the end of the straight.

 

[CSLACR]

I'm curious, how does comparing 2 cars worlds apart reflect if low weight is better or worse?
My X2010 will spank the pants off an F-150 Lightning, but that doesn't mean lighter is always faster does it?

 

[trackripper123]

I'm curious, how does comparing 2 cars worlds apart reflect if low weight is better or worse?
My X2010 will spank the pants off an F-150 Lightning, but that doesn't mean lighter is always faster does it?

This. I find that test meaningless as the cars weren't the same, a comparison between a no compromise hardcore supercar and a soft GT?

 

[Iropan]

I'm speculating, but i think his idea was to compare one light 550PP car against a heavy 550PP car.

But like you guys said before, physical specs mean nothing, and PPs are only a reference, you have to drive a car to know if it's fast, you can't know looking at the specs.

 

[IanRose]

I reduce weight then add weight to make 50-50, and it opens up more PP for power.

 

[mike_gt3]

I remember for the LMPs when i tried to run the 'ring seasonal, i had faster lap time when adding ballast and power vs keep low weight and less power, i got most of them up to 950kg and add power to 650pp.

It would probably react differently on other track as well..

 

[esoxhntr]

nurb is more a horsepower track, so your findings make perfect sense mike. higher weight (to a point) and higher HP will beat lower weight and lower HP at the same PP --- generally speaking.

 

[RevHard]

I must respectfully disagree with the theory lighter is almost always better. Most of my 500pp and less cars have minimal or no weight reduction. In fact alot of them have weight added. I feel that as long as the spring rates are set correctly the cars with more HP will out accelerate and also be able to hang with a lighter car in the turns. I have found that braking is the biggest negative to heavier cars and this is a trade-off I am willing to accept. I'm not saying that you need to throw 200 kilos in every car, but I don't think you should start your tuning process by installing stage 3 weight reduction either. Drive the car with no weight reduction and if it feels ballanced and stable go with more HP.

 

[dr_slump]

1000kg is the limit for me, then I start adding power.

 

[CSLACR]

I must respectfully disagree with the theory lighter is almost always better. Most of my 500pp and less cars have minimal or no weight reduction. In fact alot of them have weight added. I feel that as long as the spring rates are set correctly the cars with more HP will out accelerate and also be able to hang with a lighter car in the turns. I have found that braking is the biggest negative to heavier cars and this is a trade-off I am willing to accept. I'm not saying that you need to throw 200 kilos in every car, but I don't think you should start your tuning process by installing stage 3 weight reduction either. Drive the car with no weight reduction and if it feels ballanced and stable go with more HP.

Heavy cars are certainly easier to handle in the game, so that may be why you're finding heavy cars faster.

 

[RevHard]

I'm finding that heavy cars reach a higher speed from mid to top end when in practice mode hot lapping against my ghost. Some cars have as much as a 6 mph difference from "light" to "heavy" at the end of the first straight in Cape Ring. Every car is unique though, some are slower when heavier, but I try every combination of parts I can come up with and have found for my driving style, heavy with more H.P. generally gives me the quickest lap times. I know that I am new to this forum, but not to racing, simulated or actual.

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

Just out of curiosity, what is the best weight distribution. Is it 50/50 or does it depend on the drivetrain. If it depends on the drivetrain, what is best for each different drivetrain.

 

[alexlam24]

Just out of curiosity, what is the best weight distribution. Is it 50/50 or does it depend on the drivetrain. If it depends on the drivetrain, what is best for each different drivetrain.

Too much explaining to do

 

[Master_gamer438]

I try to run 50/50. sometimes 48/52 for a bit better turn in. This is at 500PP, for MR and RR I leave stock distrubtion for 500PP to 550PP. I find for most of my cars for 500PP to 550PP, that they all weigh in at 1000kg to 1500kg, I usually try to switch parts to get the most w/p ratio trying to maximise HP & Torque.

 

[CSLACR]

I try to run 50/50. sometimes 48/52 for a bit better turn in. This is at 500PP, for MR and RR I leave stock distrubtion for 500PP to 550PP. I find for most of my cars for 500PP to 550PP, that they all weigh in at 1000kg to 1500kg, I usually try to switch parts to get the most w/p ratio trying to maximise HP & Torque.

Well that's not really possible.
You can maximize power, or you can maximize torque.

Too much explaining to do

And this post was worth who's time?

Just out of curiosity, what is the best weight distribution. Is it 50/50 or does it depend on the drivetrain. If it depends on the drivetrain, what is best for each different drivetrain.

There is no set "perfect" distribution for any drivetrain.
Personally I never change it too awful far from stock, it seems like the tires getting weight added to them lose too much grip when you try to balance cars this way.
I'll usually not move the balance more than 5% at the most, typically 2-3%.

I'll also only do it if adding ballast is needed, or a higher weight than minimum is beneficial. I'd say 8-9 times out of 10 I just don't add ballast at all.(unless I have to)