Increase Rigidity or Not?? and Weight?

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jimj73

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Hi,

I've been looking for this and have beeen fairly surprised that it's never come up - but what's the deal with the effect of the rollcage (just easier to call it that!) on drifting - can that be generalised??

Thanks to the wonderful fact that you cannot reverse the effects of the rollcage, I've been finding it extremely time consuming and mind-numbing to work it out myself.

The one thing I've found out is that on an M3 basically stock, it would appear that snap-back is more severe AND there is slightly more understeer WITH the rollcage.

I'd be fascinated to know other people's thoughts on the subject. Since it would seem to make sense to me that if a car generally handles better WITH Increased Rigidity, then surely it would also Drift better? NO?? and wouldn't the same go for Weight Reduction??

Any thoughts - cheers!
 
I was never sure if it actually stiffened the car. All i know is it is meant to lock the chassis in the state at when you applied it, so that as the miles pile on, the chassis rigidity isn't effected.
 
for weight reductions, you generally want to make the car as light as possible so that it is easier to handle. Do all 3.

The rollcage mod is often usually hit or miss with me. My impression is that it makes the steering a bit more direct, and consequently less forgiving. I'd compare it in some ways to stiffening the antiroll bars.
It's said to contribute to understeering, but honestly, I've never noticed a dramatic change in over/understeer tendency caused by this modification alone.
Unless I'm really struggling with a car [as has been the case in some of the DSJ's where I have used it] I generally don't make this modification.
 
What Boundary Layer says above is very true. The car is less forgiving.
I feel there's more capability for traction, but it doesn't mean there's always more traction. To me is very important to have traction (more grip if you want to say this way) at corners' exits. I need the car rises its speed at corners' exits, that's my style, so I always install the roll cage.
 
no, I feel that making appropriate adjustments to suspension and lsd settings helps you gain traction coming out of a corner.
 
Boundary Layer
no, I feel that making appropriate adjustments to suspension and lsd settings helps you gain traction coming out of a corner.
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BL, apologies - I should have used the edit button more accurately - still new at this - I was actually replying to Sheron's post re- traction out of the corner, where he says that the presence of the rollcage, he feels, aids his traction coming out of a corner. Which makes sense to me, no? I mean - I realise that obviously its adjustments to settings that can aid this, but does the "presence" of a rollcage have an additional effect on something like this. That was basically the kind of thing I was asking about originally.

But you're saying that a rollcage doesn't help the potential for traction coming out of a corner?

thanks
 
gotcha

jimj73
But you're saying that a rollcage doesn't help the potential for traction coming out of a corner?
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well, as I said, my experiences have been both good and bad with the modification - and my impression may be clouded by the point in my setup process when I apply the modification. Sometimes I may have some suspension setup done when i apply it, and it would force me to go back and redo aspects [generally making things softer]

Someone like Sheron, who claims to use it regularly, may have better noticed a trend to the change in handling characteristics caused by this modification.
So, as you suggested in your post, he may be the guy you need to answer this for you.
 
well, personally speaking I prefer doing chassis rigidity modifications. it stables the cars charasterictic behaviour quite much. in some cases it's good, for example when driving MR's, which can get quite nervous under braking when the weight transfers. Adding roll cage stabilizes the car and lessens the risk.. no, actually it just pushes the limit of sudden snap-back bit further.
 
Boundary Layer
gotcha



my impression may be clouded by the point in my setup process when I apply the modification. Sometimes I may have some suspension setup done when i apply it, and it would force me to go back and redo aspects [generally making things softer]
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so excuse my ignorance here then please - what exactly does Increase rigidity do, and why does it matter wheb it's applied, I assumed that it increases the rigidity of the chassis to a predetermined level at whatever point it is applied?

cheers
 
jimj73
so excuse my ignorance here then please - what exactly does Increase rigidity do, and why does it matter wheb it's applied, I assumed that it increases the rigidity of the chassis to a predetermined level at whatever point it is applied?

cheers
Click to expand...
if you put it on the chassis with 100K miles, and has never had chassis refersh it will keep the chassis that way longer. but the goah here is to refresh the chassis, so it is like new, then you add the cage to make it where it stays ridgid for a longer time without needing a refresh.
 
Suzuki
if you put it on the chassis with 100K miles, and has never had chassis refersh it will keep the chassis that way longer. but the goah here is to refresh the chassis, so it is like new, then you add the cage to make it where it stays ridgid for a longer time without needing a refresh.
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ok - so if you put on the rollcage without a chassis refresh, at, say 100k, and THEN you do the chassis refresh - do you get back to the best possible way you could be - or are you always curtailed by the fact that you only did the rollcage at 100K?

cheers
 
I don't know this for fact, because it is so heavily based on observation and in matters like this you tend to feel what you believe you should feel.

However, there have been some massive discussions about cars taking on very peculiar handling traits if the rollcage is installed prior to the chassis refresh - particularly on LMP's and Group C's.
 
jimj73
ok - so if you put on the rollcage without a chassis refresh, at, say 100k, and THEN you do the chassis refresh - do you get back to the best possible way you could be - or are you always curtailed by the fact that you only did the rollcage at 100K?

cheers
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read the menu for it in gt4, it will explain it.
but basically, if you add the cage WITHOUT refreshing, you cannot refresh the chassis back to what it would be like if it had 0 mi.
so to get the maxium benefit from adding a cage, you NEED to do the chassis refresh option FIRST, then you can add the cage.
 
cheers Suzuki, I'd always assumed that was the case and never let a car not have a chassis refresh before anything else was done. I guess what I was really asking is that if you add a rollcage after a certain mileage is driven, does that have an effect or not, does it just go back to a predetermined state assuming you've done the chassis refresh. i.e. if I've been trying to slide around a few tracks with a car, and then feel like I wanna check out what it would feel like with a rollcage - would it be different installing said rollcage after - say 500 or 100o miles, to installing it at 0 - straight from the dealer?
 
jimj73
I guess what I was really asking is that if you add a rollcage after a certain mileage is driven, does that have an effect or not, does it just go back to a predetermined state assuming you've done the chassis refresh. i.e. if I've been trying to slide around a few tracks with a car, and then feel like I wanna check out what it would feel like with a rollcage - would it be different installing said rollcage after - say 500 or 100o miles, to installing it at 0 - straight from the dealer?
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well, i know that when you do cage then you cant get the chassis fresher than what it was at when you put the cage on. so if you dont refresh and put it on a 50K mile chassis, you cant get the chassis refreshed to before 50K. i dont know the milage it takes to make you need a chassis refresh, but i would just buy 2 of the same cars. one with cage, and one without. assuming they are new with 0 miles on them. then you could test them out.
 
Suzuki
well, i know that when you do cage then you cant get the chassis fresher than what it was at when you put the cage on. so if you dont refresh and put it on a 50K mile chassis, you cant get the chassis refreshed to before 50K.

sorry - not sure I understand what you're saying - and I always thought that the point of doing a chassis refresh when you buy a car from the secondhand garage was that it made it as good as new


i dont know the milage it takes to make you need a chassis refresh, but i would just buy 2 of the same cars. one with cage, and one without. assuming they are new with 0 miles on them. then you could test them out.
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I "COULD" do that - but that would be just one of the many tests I have to do in the game, and I ws just wondering if anyone had done this before - save me the hassle! Oh - and I think the mileage for a chassis refresh is about 500 miles - I think - I know it's been written about before, its somewhere here, not that it really matters, I do it when I need it.
 
I have never noticed much of a difference with or without the rollcage. Weight reduction is a good thing to try if you want to drift sidewars easily though.

Hope that helps.

Cheers

T4 GTR
 

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