Increasing Tyre Life

Discussion in 'GT4 Tuning' started by shotamagee, Jun 20, 2014.

  1. shotamagee

    shotamagee

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    Hi all,
    Just wondering if anyone has any specific knowledge on how to increase tyre life particularly front vs rear tyre life in regards to the suspension, brakes, aids & LCD settings.
    Plenty of stuff here on how to tune for outright speed, but not so much on getting equal front and rear tyre life. I want to balance the tyre life of each axle, as that should allow the greatest speed and distance over any stint in theory.
    Ie. if I want to increase the rear tyre life which way "should" I be setting the spring rates front vs back, ride heights front vs back etc.
    Also do these settings come at the cost of overall grip is worth knowing as well. eg If you decrease the camber settings (front and or rear) you should be to go further on tyres, but is that at a cost to outright grip, meaning your going to be slower?

    Not sure if it's relevant but the car / championship in question is; the Mazda 787B & the FGT Championship, often on R3,R2's or R2,R1's. But the tyre demands of each track are quite different, ie the fronts wear out earlier at Tokyo R246, but the rears wear out quicker at Sarthe. I'd like to equal them up a bit if possible.

    Make Sense, Input?
     
  2. Duke_of_hazard

    Duke_of_hazard

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    Location:
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    set the camber angle and the toe in/out to 0 and lower the car as much as possible
    the fronts will take a bit longer to warm up, but once thay look the same colour as the back, they will stay that colour for around 3 - 4 laps depending what track you are racing on
    hope this helps :)
     
  3. shotamagee

    shotamagee

    Messages:
    624
    Location:
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    Thanks for responding,
    Camber & Toe to minimum makes sense, but lowering the car should mean you need to harden up the suspension, & I've always thought softer suspension gets better tyre life.
     
    Duke_of_hazard likes this.
  4. RetroDriver

    RetroDriver

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    Location:
    England
    I've got the same problem with a Jaguar XJR9 round Tokyo R246, I can just about drag Racing Medium tyres to lap six, but in an 18 lap race where the other cars only pit once I simply cannot get anywhere because I have to pit twice. I'll altered the camber angle, but I am considering trying to B spec for the first time once I've put the car on pole, because the other cars get to lap 15/16 before needing to pit...
     
  5. BobK

    BobK Premium

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    Try RH instead of RM. Better yet, try a Mazda 787B on RH instead.
     
  6. RetroDriver

    RetroDriver

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    Location:
    England
    My problem is that I can't buy any other tyres as I'm in the championship already... :(
     
  7. GTsail

    GTsail Premium

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    The Jaguar XJR9 can win the Tokyo R246 race on RM (R2) tires.

    I used it to win the entire Professional Hall Series in the Gran Turismo World Championship. I used R2 tires for each race. I ran the XJR9 with 928 horsepower.

    I no longer have any of my suspension tuning notes, but I do remember moving the ballast around a little to help with the tire wear.

    Good luck!
    GTsail
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2014
  8. RetroDriver

    RetroDriver

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    Location:
    England
    Do you have any other set up tips because I'm really struggling with this one race :( thanks anyway, I know its possible now!! :)
     
  9. GTsail

    GTsail Premium

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    Try moving the ballast away from the tires that are wearing out first. I think that this should help a little with the tire wear. You could also try some traction control, and see if that helps a little.

    Good luck
    GTsail
     
  10. Matej

    Matej Premium

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    I've conducted an experiment to resolve a question that was asked in the first place:

    Does suspension settings affect tyre wear ?

    Part 1
    Event: Gran Turismo All Stars
    Track: High Speed Ring Reverse, tested on Qualify Mode
    Car: Jaguar XJ220 LM Race Car '01
    Power: 897hp (needs Oil change)
    Tyres: Racing Soft (R4)

    Setup A, (B):

    Brakes: 3/3
    Springs: 12.0/14.0, (7.0/5.0)
    Ride Height: 70/70, (100/100)
    Bound: 4/6
    Rebound: 4/6
    Camber: 1.5/1.0
    Toe: 0/0
    Stabilizers: 3/4
    Gears: Auto 16
    ASM: 0/0
    TCS: 3
    Downforce: 38/53 (Max)
    LSD: 40/40/40
    Ballast: 0/0

    Tyre wear right before the bridge on the warm-up lap and at the end of lap 4. Above is setup A, below setup B:

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    [​IMG] [​IMG]


    Handling:
    A had more grip and limits of the car were easily identified. B had slightly less grip and changes in behaviour occured suddenly.

    Lap Times:
    More or less equal, slightly faster with setup B (cca -0'00.300sec.)

    Wear:
    Both setups managed to complete 5 laps (warm-up + 4 laps)

    Conclusion:
    Soft springs in conjunction with high ride height (setup B) affects tyres more and makes general wear uneven on all four units. However, it seems that this setup increases heating of the front tires, which is why MR cars can benefit for that first one or two laps.
    Stiff springs in conjunction with low ride height (setup A) reduces wear of the tyres and does good job on equalizing them too. On this track you could run with setup A for another quarter of the lap but because handling is a bit tricky in relation to what you get with setup B, this wouldn't be recommended.

    Part 2
    Event: Gran Turismo Championship
    Track: Tokyo R246, tested on Qualify Mode
    Car: Mercedes CLK-GTR '98
    Power: 797hp
    Tyres: Racing Soft (R4)

    Setup C, (D), {E}:

    Brakes: 3/3
    Springs: 12.0/14.0, (12.0/14.0), {12.0/11.0}
    Ride Height: 60/60, (80/60), {60/60}
    Bound: 4/6
    Rebound: 4/6
    Camber: 1.5/1.0
    Toe: 0/0
    Stabilizers: 3/3
    Gears: Auto 17
    ASM: 5 to oversteer only
    TCS: 3
    Downforce: 38/53 (Max)
    LSD: 30/30/30
    Ballast: 0/0

    Handling:
    I used ASM to avoid sudden changes in behaviour since the track is already tough to drive on. No major differences between setup C and E but with setup D car had more understeer during general cornering while on corner entries it was being nervous.

    Lap Times:
    Again more or less equal but fastest lap was set with setup C.

    Wear:
    All three setups managed to complete 5 laps (warm-up+ 4 laps). However, if I hadn't had ASM on, setup E wouldn't have managed to complete those 5 laps.

    Conclusion:
    There was no difference between setup C and D in tyre wear department albeit I noticed rear tyres were more even after the first three corners. The most important thing is that setup E (softer rear) increases wear of the rear tires for about half of the lap. For now, I conclude spring rates have more effect on wear than ride height.

    Hold on, what about the brakes ?

    I tested the same car on Super Speedway on Family Cup (AI set to -10) using the setup C, Racing Medium tyres albeit with two different brake setups:

    3/15
    Wear was apparently equal on all four sides.

    6/3
    Wear on front tires was slightly higher, particulary on the right side.

    Trailbraking was used here in both cases.

    EDIT:
    Another test on High Speed Ring Reverse (6 laps this time) with the CLK-GTR (setup C) and following brake settings:

    8/3
    3/18

    It seems 8/3 affects front tyres more and saves rear to a small degree. By small I mean that your tyres would be useful for about two or three more corners at best.

    Downforce:
    I also tested downforce (from 38/53 to 38/38) but suprisingly, that didn't affect tyres at all.

    Ride Height:
    Final test was done on Suzuka, Family Cup. Ride height was set to 80/60 and then standard ratio 60/60 again. The driver was B-Spec using Pace 3 without overtaking mode on.

    By raising front ride height front tyres seems to wear front tyres slightly more.

    Final Thoughts

    Yes, it seems different suspension and brake settings affect tyre wear to some point. Therefore, if you wish to prolong life of the rear axle a bit more you should do the following:

    - stiffen rear springs
    - reduce ride height on the rear as much as you car can handle without bottoming out
    - increase rear brake bias. If oversteer occurs fix it with other settings

    All in all, settings that reduce movement of weight transfer should safe your tyres a little bit.

    If you are good driver your tyres may live for another set of corners or even full lap if you are driving on harder compound. However, forget about drastic changes as you can't change natural characteristic of a car. To a some degree that is possible but only if you:

    - set different tyres on front and rear
    - add ballast to a specific side of a car
    - incorporate different driving style
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2014
    shotamagee, GTsail290 and BobK like this.
  11. BobK

    BobK Premium

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    Interesting bit of research there. I am not surprised at your wear findings but I am surprised that you had quicker lap times with the less grippy setup.

    Out of curiosity, was this one qualifying session on each setting set or multiple?
     
  12. Matej

    Matej Premium

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    I've completed second part of my research, check the post #10. It tests if ratio between stiff springs affects tyre life, particulary if one side of a car's ride height is raised. Brakes were also covered on a different track where trailbraking is traditional way of driving. This time pictures are not present unfortunately.

    I ran two rounds per setup or 10 laps for each [(warm-up+4 laps)x2].

    With the B setup I was more aware of the car's limits which gave me courage to push it more. That is why I used ASM for the second part of my research to avoid these problems.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2014