Influencers.

[tunaphis]

As gamers we all use websites and youtube channels for information regarding the games that interest us.Reading reviews and/or watching beta games in my case largely contributes too which game is worth shelling out the ever increasing cost that is my hobby.
Lately most pre-release games/hardware have being given glowing reviews only to have forums ablaze with disgruntled players who relied on such online " influencers " who where provided with free keys/hardware.
Does providing a unbiased assessment of a game that was supplied by the publisher hurt your future prospects in the gaming industry?
Does having hardware given to you sway your opinion about such items?
It's not envy on my part,I'm in my 50's and can afford what I like.It's the buying of social media and the people who started to stream cause it was just fun and they enjoyed it but now do it for the rewards regardless.

 

[cjr3559]

I take whatever known YouTubers say with a heavy dose of salt. Most forums are ablaze with disgruntled players that need a place to vent, and typically the negatives stand out over the positives. Personally I usually enjoy games that get panned in the media. And vice versa, games that are constantly streamed and get views are generally disappointing.

I don”t think popular streamers have to worry about getting cut off from free stuff as long as they have (and maintain) enough subscriptions. For me, the lesser known guys out there have the best insight anyway. Too bad they can’t get free stuff. I’m not saying carrying 50k subs is easy, but I guess you’ve got to start somewhere, and if being a shock jock gets you subs and pays the bills then that’s what you do.

 

[eran0004]

There will always be disgruntled players. Everyone have different preferences and no game can appeal to everyone. If a game sells one million copies and 1/100 players hate the game, then you have ten thousand players who could potentially set the forums ablaze.

It’s still just 1/100 chance that the reviewer would be among those who hate the game. Also, many issues doesn’t appear until you’ve played for a while so the reviewer may not even have reached that stage before publishing the review.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Influencers are no different to reviewers and reviewers in the past. There are plenty of outlets that have been paid to be positive and in the current digital world it's just a different way of doing that. As said above as well, you always hear the bad above the good and the people who like the game and praise it get shut down by trolls and negative people because how dare you like something they don't.

The gaming crowd on social media is becoming a toxic place which doesn't help at all. Also, there are influencers out there who genuinely do just get a free code because they have a big channel, and there are even a few who are honest. But theres a fine line between fact and opinion. And influencer may well like the game and enjoy said game very much and talk mainly positively about it. But some might disagree, that doesn't mean the influencer is wrong or is being paid to promote, it means they actually like the game. And its like that with DR2.0. If I was a youtuber with a code it would be speaking positively about it as my experience has been very positive. That doesn't make me wrong it just means my opinion differs to those who don't like it.

It's a really fine line they have to tread because not everyone will agree with them and that will be perceived as trying to sway sales. Let's not forget that they aren't taking a cut of sales so theres no financial benefit to them other than the free game they already have by this stage.

 

[fernandito]

DR2 wheel FFB was good for some youtuber, remember.

<<the version I was given had perfectly fine FFB blah blah>>

Oh well

Never trust them. They make for a very important part of devs tactics nowadays, not to mention those who get paid for good.

Then there are other youtubers such a one administrator of this place, Mr MagpieRacer or PJ tierney, whose simple goal after the game is released and having purchased it already, is to help others regarding anything technical, such as wheel setups; car setups, or that they just want to show us some racing with them playing, so we can figure as best as possible by ourselves how the game is and plays.

Those are the videos you might want to actually watch and support. All you have to do is waiting after the game is released and see what they have to say about the thing.

 

[MagpieRacer]

The FFB point is contentious because there are plenty of people here who actually have experience rallying or driving fast on rough gravel roads who are happy with it. So again it simply forms an opinion it a fact so theres nothing to not trust. Some liked it, some didn't, I like it, I think it feels good and close to how driving my car feels.

Which is exactly my point with influencer opinion, it's not always going to match your own opinion. Puts them in a harsh position when you have a differing opinion to theres. Doesn't make them wrong or you right it simply means you have a different view.

But I see what you're saying of course because your thought of good FFB will be something you have in expectation and when someone says it's good you expect it to meet you level of that.

I think it should be declared by individual channels if they are being paid or have been paid to promote. Which I don't think is the case for a lot of people regarding DR2.0 but certainly happens with other games.

 

[crooky369]

Stick to reputable gaming sites and good forums like Gtplanet. For getting anything close to an honest review you’re best to stay well away from most so called Youtube ‘reviews’.

 

[TypeRDC5]

I used to prefer YouTube reviews over gaming sites but as the years have gone on and YouTube got bigger we have the case of developers sending games and gifts to some youtubers and this obviously plays a part on their assessment and coverage of games.

Certainly dont take their opinion as honestly as I used to before.

 

[_ApexPredator]

I used to prefer YouTube reviews over gaming sites but as the years have gone on and YouTube got bigger we have the case of developers sending games and gifts to some youtubers and this obviously plays a part on their assessment and coverage of games.

Certainly dont take their opinion as honestly as I used to before.

Where do you think the gaming sites get their copies from?

 

[TypeRDC5]

Where do you think the gaming sites get their copies from?

From the developers, thought that was obvious.

My point being YouTube used to be impartial where now it's basically the same as gaming sites, not all obviously but when they are getting free stuff and invited to their HQ to play game early they wont be giving negative reviews.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Some do though. I find @VVV Mars VG to be perfectly impartial. @Jimmy B as well. He gets excited but hes as likely to be critical as he is to give praise.

 

[Titzon Toast]

Paid shills are gonna shill.

 

[bogani]

Paid shills are gonna shill.

Indeed. What is slightly annoying is when anyone that expresses their opinion in a positive manner instantly get blamed for being a shill by those who doesn't agree. Sadly this is common these days.

 

[PJTierney]

Influencers and Reviewers are 2 different kinds of people. What they do is defined by the first 3 words of this post

 

[Scaff]

The FFB point is contentious because there are plenty of people here who actually have experience rallying or driving fast on rough gravel roads who are happy with it. So again it simply forms an opinion it a fact so theres nothing to not trust. Some liked it, some didn't, I like it, I think it feels good and close to how driving my car feels.

And quite a few of us with the same experience who don't agree.

What I find interesting about the FFB debate on DR2.0 is that many who are happy with it don't bother to differentiate between the 'grip' side of FFB (driven by slip and self aligning torque), which is perfectly good (indeed far better than the original Dirt Rally), and you then have the surface and impact side of FFB (driven by suspension travel, speed of that travel, bumpstops, surface changes, etc) which is not better than Dr and is in large part utterly absent (save for the cattle grids).

It's that some are attempting to wave away what is a demonstrable issue with the FFB, based on an unrelated but fine part of the FFB that irks in that regard.

That the suspension and impact settings side of the DR2 FFB doesn't affect FFB aside from the cattle grids. The smooth, undegraded gravel is passable however, the roads in Argentina should be impacting on the wheel FFB, as should the heavy degraded surfaces on all the gravel events, this should be pulling the steering and causing serious tramlining. None of that occurs at all, in fact outside of the cattle grids all the suspension and impact settings do is make the steering heavier.

Dakar 18 may be a title with a massive amount of issues, but in that regard it wipes the floor with DR2, being detailed without being overdone.

I've driven a range of rally spec cars on Welsh and Scottish gravel and have had 30+ years driving a variety of Land Rovers (from true mud plugging to stripped out V8 lightweights), and that half of the FFB in DR2 is pretty much absent is demonstrable.

Which is exactly my point with influencer opinion, it's not always going to match your own opinion. Puts them in a harsh position when you have a differing opinion to theres. Doesn't make them wrong or you right it simply means you have a different view.

But I see what you're saying of course because your thought of good FFB will be something you have in expectation and when someone says it's good you expect it to meet you level of that.

I think it should be declared by individual channels if they are being paid or have been paid to promote. Which I don't think is the case for a lot of people regarding DR2.0 but certainly happens with other games.

Which is assuming that the influencer actualy has that depth of knowledge in the first place, and that they are imune from bias if a product is provided to them.

@Jimmy B s video of Dakar 18 is an example of the first of these, now I've followed him for a long time, well before his time here at GTP and really like his approach and style, but that piece was massively coloured by what came across as a fundamental lack of knowledge of the motorsports in question. Dakar 18 had a lot of issue at launch (all of which I covered and was open to), but how it portrayed the event and sport of Rally Raid was certainly not one of them, covering it as if it were just another rally title was to miss a massive amount of what it did get right.

 

[cjr3559]

@Jimmy B s video of Dakar 18 is an example of the first of these, now I've followed him for a long time, well before his time here at GTP and really like his approach and style, but that piece was massively coloured by what came across as a fundamental lack of knowledge of the motorsports in question. Dakar 18 had a lot of issue at launch (all of which I covered and was open to), but how it portrayed the event and sport of Rally Raid was certainly not one of them, covering it as if it were just another rally title was to miss a massive amount of what it did get right.

Ah yes, the infamous Dakar 18 stream. Not claiming the game isn’t without issues, but he was an immature grump from the beginning. I’ve never been sold on Jimmy, but I turned him off after he tried to drive through the fence. Maybe he was jet lagged from attending all those GTS events.

 

[tunaphis]

Ah yes, the infamous Dakar 18 stream. Not claiming the game isn’t without issues, but he was an immature grump from the beginning. I’ve never been sold on Jimmy, but I turned him off after he tried to drive through the fence. Maybe he was jet lagged from attending all those GTS events.

Wasn't he drinking that night? sorry reviewing sponsored merlot.

 

[potvinsuks]

And quite a few of us with the same experience who don't agree.

What I find interesting about the FFB debate on DR2.0 is that many who are happy with it don't bother to differentiate between the 'grip' side of FFB (driven by slip and self aligning torque), which is perfectly good (indeed far better than the original Dirt Rally), and you then have the surface and impact side of FFB (driven by suspension travel, speed of that travel, bumpstops, surface changes, etc) which is not better than Dr and is in large part utterly absent (save for the cattle grids).

It's that some are attempting to wave away what is a demonstrable issue with the FFB, based on an unrelated but fine part of the FFB that irks in that regard.

That the suspension and impact settings side of the DR2 FFB doesn't affect FFB aside from the cattle grids. The smooth, undegraded gravel is passable however, the roads in Argentina should be impacting on the wheel FFB, as should the heavy degraded surfaces on all the gravel events, this should be pulling the steering and causing serious tramlining. None of that occurs at all, in fact outside of the cattle grids all the suspension and impact settings do is make the steering heavier.

Dakar 18 may be a title with a massive amount of issues, but in that regard it wipes the floor with DR2, being detailed without being overdone.

I've driven a range of rally spec cars on Welsh and Scottish gravel and have had 30+ years driving a variety of Land Rovers (from true mud plugging to stripped out V8 lightweights), and that half of the FFB in DR2 is pretty much absent is demonstrable.


Which is assuming that the influencer actualy has that depth of knowledge in the first place, and that they are imune from bias if a product is provided to them.

@Jimmy B s video of Dakar 18 is an example of the first of these, now I've followed him for a long time, well before his time here at GTP and really like his approach and style, but that piece was massively coloured by what came across as a fundamental lack of knowledge of the motorsports in question. Dakar 18 had a lot of issue at launch (all of which I covered and was open to), but how it portrayed the event and sport of Rally Raid was certainly not one of them, covering it as if it were just another rally title was to miss a massive amount of what it did get right.

If I spent an entire week to think up of the FFB problem to explain and write in Dirt Rally 2.0, I still couldn't come remotely close to how well you explained the situation mate.

Your explanation of what we do feel with the FFB opposed to what we don't, hits the nail right at it's head. Perfectly explained .

One thing I want to make sure that I understand on your other angle with the issue with the FFB. As I understand it, users are irresponsibly saying that the FFB is good but, they're only basing their analysis on basically half the FFB right?

So, do you fear that Codemasters is listening to this sentiment and may not be as eager as we'd like them to be - to urgently update the FFB?

Also, I keep hearing about an FFB Update but haven't ever seen anything official from Codemasters. Should we temper our expectations of a FFB update at this point?

Or, am I blind and have overlooked the information .

 

[fernandito]

Never before has a racing game split me into two. I want to like this game, but..

 

[vinz7531]

In terms of gaming I tend to wait a bit before buying, so I look at "let's play" rather than reviews so that I can see by myself if the content is what i want.
For racing games I tend to watch "let's play" from two categrories of youtubers: generic gaming (with medium skill and simracers). I generally end up with a good idea of what it is.