Inspired by the ever theorising JohnBM01 - A third mode of play?

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[FPV]Rusty

[FPV]Rusty

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Now I've had a few idea's for GT5 that would bring the next installment of GT closer to a racing simuilator than a driving simulator, i havnt really voiced many, one person has, aforementioned JohnBM01, and generally i love most of them, especially the team work idea.

Now I'll get to the point. To really push the envelope of GT5 further, for it to rise further above than ever before, the age old formula of the two modes of play, arcade and gran turismo may need to be added apon.

Instead the advent of a third mode would have us choosing from-
-Arcade mode
-Simulation OR Gran Turismo mode
-Career mode

Simulation would be in general, basicly much like GT4 gran turismo mode is, obviuously better features, but i wont go in to detail, mainly this is about CAREER mode, becuase maybe some people dont want all the other hassles that go alnog with racing, they just want to keep it simple, keep it more about speed

But then, there will be those that want to be immersed in the racing experience. As the name suggests you would have a racing career, maybe coupled with being an owner of a race team, or tuning house (which could involve extensions to the traditional 'home' of GT, one idea mentioned by JohnBM01). As part of a team, you race to better your career, and your teams, larger fields could mean teams have two or more entrants, you may end up only having one pit lane area, so you have to time your pit stops. Or even decide to que if there was a safety car.

Safety car? Yes peoples, Im talkin about yellow flags, black flags, drive throughs, DNF's. All stuff some people wont like, but others will see it as one more step to realism, one more step to the real racing challenge. Thats why you have the choice

Highly random but unlikely events like engine blowouts and other technical failure could also be a feature, meaning the better your team, and team members, the less chance of it occuring.

For races like nurburgring 24h or le mans 24h, multiple classes would see you work your way up year to year. Whats more, why stop at a B-Spec driver, howaobut a 2nd B-spec driver, C-spec anyone? And just like your opponents shouldnt be cars, they are drivers with careers of there own, so should each of your co-drivers and team mates.

With the PS3 the next installment of GT is its chance to rise above and Decimate its competition. This, in my humble opinion is one way it could do it...
 
I think the "simulation" mode of GT5 should evolve into a non linear story mode, much like what it is now but with actual racing teams and hiring of new pit crew members and the like. I mean why waste the time to create a whole new mode :career" that it will be like "simulation" but evolved I ean just improve simulation. But don't add cut-scences and all that cluttering crap. I mean you have a nice idea but I for onew would just like simulation but with more meaning. More stat tracking for your team and others etc..
 
First of all, it's been a while since someone actually PRAISED my thinking rather than make fun or knock me. So, you get this from me to you, FPV: 👍 👍

Okay, now that I've taken my thumbs from being stuck in the air to back on my keyboard, let me answer your question. A Career Mode would be interesting. The only issue about it is that maybe a lot of people wouldn't really want a TOCA Race Driver 2 style of play whereas you sign up for a team and race their car. The idea of multiple B-Spec racers is very interesting. In fact, I imagine that B-Spec racers can compete in some other races to gain experience. Just like I have in starting Gran Turismo 4. I lost my first race using a partially-tuned 2002 Volkswagen Golf. I won this car from my License Tests, so you can imagine that I had only 10K Cr. But over time and with more money, I was tuning my car to perfection, then started winning a lot. Where I am getting at is that B-Spec racers should be taught so that their driving can get much better. The key points of emphasis involve offense, defense, strategy, bravery, and composure. * Offense is simple. The better the offense, the more a driver will be at racing for the lead and moving up the pack. Defense is one's ability to defend their line, hold off charging competitors, and driving carefully through rough conditions. * Strategy is key in trying to adjust your racing line, plan pit stops, and make smart moves to pass other cars. * Bravery is the driver's ability to not be shy or inexperienced behind the wheel. A high level of bravery makes a racer able to take chances, even if there is no other choice. * Composure is a driver's rating of what kind of driver he/she is. Higher composure means a driver is completely focused. Finish well, and composure is high. Lower composure means that a driver gets really aggressive and may either lose focus or start driving too aggressively so that no other cars finish the race.

So, upgradable drivers is a great idea. As far as Career Mode goes, I'm interested. How it should be implemented is beyond me, so I'll leave that to other people on this message board.
 
Great minds think alike. :sly:

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I posted this back in the end of March, and I imagine like John, I want to see this implemented so BAD! Particularly this section.

NEW RACE MODES
- Arcade and Open Mode, the traditional GT game in which you complete objectives to open up races and tracks.

- Season Mode, in which you choose a category such as Touring Car, Rally, Formula 1, and race an entire season for the championship.

- Career Mode, in which you start out as in basic GT, but work your way up through the hobby/enthusiast leagues of something like the SCCA into the pro circuits. Start with a decent budget to buy and upgrade a few quality sports cars, and then start racing. Garner sponsorships to increase your budget along with the racing prizes. Use the License Tests here to qualify for better and different racing leagues. Perhaps a budget for hiring pro garage staff. Track the progress of competitors as the season progresses. Seasons continue over the course of years, as long as you want to continue. Have something like a Speed Channel show you can open up like Replay Theater, and race commentators show highlights and critique your performance.


I think along with everyone else's ingenious ideas, this would make the ultimate Gran Turismo game. Just imagine tracking your career online against the rest of the world. We would have to bow down and pay homage to the stars of Gran Turismo. I'd be spending a lot of time on my knees because I'm above average, and a Class C participant in the GT Forum racing league. Sigh, and I need to see about replacing that DF Pro pretty soon, haven't raced for months now! :indiff:
 
To kick off my post, I'd like to mention two things, firstly and it's mentioned late in you're post FPV, you said "highly random but unlikely events like engine blowouts and other technical failure", none of this is random, it's all caused by bad setups, design and driving and it should remain in you're control at ALL times. Secondly the idea of an expanding race team is one, I'm very keen on, I've mentioned it before and did I say I'm keen on it. I mentioned an idea like this in another thread around here but it put's you as the owner of a race team.

At the start of the career game, GT mode, whatever you want to call it, you create you're profile as normal. Give yourself a name, team name and off you go. Like all GT games you start with no car and a very limited budget, but this is where it's different. You also start wit a sceleton, under-experienced pit crew who've been hired for you for say 100 days. So thats a small, not very good pit crew thats yours for the first 100 days without paying for them, just to help you get going without pulling you're hair all out at once because you literally have NO credits.

As you progress in the game you can hire new staff, say you want somone who can change the cars tyres faster or whatever. You can send you're current staff off for training, so if you've had a member of the team on for a while and you don't want to replace him you can try to improve him that way. You can fire staff when they're either not wanted anymore or just frustrating you with incompetence :lol:, or whatever. When you've been going for a while and built up a nice ammount of credits to spend you can hire a second driver. This is my idea of the new B-Sepc guy, you can send him for training like all the other staff, hire yet another driver, fire him, whatever. You can have him race for you, much like B-Spec does now, but he needs paying, so you can either give him a cut of the prize credits or you can pay him on a fixed term ie so much credit for xxx ammount of days or races he takes part in ect.

If you decide to enter a series and you want to drive, but you have another car thts also able to enter the series, say the DTM races ad you have two CLK-DTM's you can put him in one of them and drive the other yourself so he's racing on the grid WITH you. Ofcourse, you still only have one pit crew so you'd need to make sure you don't pit at the same time :dunce: or one of you wil be wating a while. As you're credits increase you can also hire a second pit crew, this will open things up for you even more. Now you can race two cars in the same series as two seperate teams so you don't have to watch each others pit strategies ect, or you can send him off to do a different series whil you race the DTM or whatever. If you hire a second crew you'd also need a stand in team manager, or cheif to take charge of that team while you're doing whatever in you're own, so you wouldn't need to worry about car setups and what not for you're second driver. This can be done for a thrd driver and so on, basically as long as you can afford it you can do it. As you're staff increses you'd need to upgrade you're premesis, bigger mechanics areas ect. And then you acn go into the ideas that have been mentioned in the past on upgrading my home (theres a thread with a title along thoes lines by our friend JohnBM01 somewhere with some great ideas in it).

Onto training a driver or member of the pit crew, the training will depend on how good that person already is, and what their role in the team will be or is. Say you want to train the mechanics, you can train them in re-fueling, repair work, changing tyres ect. The driver can be trained in various aspects of driving a car fast around a track, how to take an S-Bend, how to take a U turn, how to overtake on an S-Bend ect. I tink this could add greatly to the gamefor thoes that want a bit more depth from GT. Ofcourse, you wouldn't have to hire new drivers or staff if you didnt want, you could always just re-new the existing staff's contracts once every 100,200, 500 days or so if you didn't want to get involved in all that.
Anyway, thats my idea in detail.
 
Excellent fleshing out of details on Career Mode. That takes it even further into the direction of the racing sim than I had thought about, but very well thought out. I hope Kazunori-san is having similar dreams for GT5.

In fact, maybe there could be two types of Career Mode, one in which you start as a hobbyist racer, and one in which you start as a new "established" pro racer/team manager. Or maybe that could come in GT6. Either one would make me happy, but I would like to see if the game could put me at the very bottom of the ladder as a young dude or dudette wanting to make a name for myself in the racing world.
 
Very interesting ideals. It would certainly add many more things to do. A few things would have to happen first. (1) more cars in a race, I think most believe this will be implemented. (2) much improved A.I., otherwise career mode would be pointless. (3) some sort of damage perhaps included with mechanical failures. The ideal of b-spec more then one driver is very good, why not in say arcade mode or any race that is just for fun allow the user to jump in any car. Give b-spec Bob much more character, maybe even have features like block, draft,agressive levels ( with risk factors ). Why not even be able to pick Bob's helment, racing suit etc.

If a career mode was implented, have career modes for dozens of differnt race categories. Include more variety of racing, how about not only have career mode but pick what decade you want to start your career. Also finally include 1 on 1 drag races. Career Mode would be great but would take alot of time to develope and implement correctly. Also would want to be able to run multiple careers at the same time.
 
Boys and girls, I normally mention that Gran Turismo is all about the drive. The majority of the time, you're racing. And if you're not in Gran Turismo to race, you go home. Yeah, I said it again- play hard or go home.

Here's a question I'd ask all of you. With all the racing Gran Turismo games have offered, why do you think being totally committed to racing hasn't been expressed in the deepest detail in GT games like in TOCA racing games? How deep should racing committment be in future Gran Turismo games? And is PD doing enough to satisfy the will and need to race?
 
Not even Toca RD2 was that immersive. The best simulation I've played by FAR in GTR. You have damage, 50+ cars in a race is you wish. Flags, radio chatter, pit limiters, good AI, cockpit view, a clutch if you have a third pedal to use ect. GT is very dumbed down and I don't see it as a racing game. It SHOULD be a racing game but it's just been too dumbed down. If GT is to expand, where should it expand? Or where CAN it expand?

You have all the obviouse things like damage, more cars per race, better tuning options ect, but it would still be the same buy car, race car, tune car, race car more, win car, sell car, buy new car ect. This formula needs work or it will die, I'm sorry but it's a 10 year old formula and GT4 doesn't hook me like GT2 did, and that was before I got the DFP and started playing the far superior (imo) GTR. The way I see it, GT already is about you running you're own race team, it's you that chooses the car to race, it's you that decides where to enter it, it's you that decides how to tune it, it you that deals with all the finances. You're not simply a member of some obscure team, you're the owner of it in GT. Expanding this area would greatly add to the game imo, much lik the topic made on upgrading the home. If all you want is to race, why bother thinking about thoes idea's, not only that, but implemeting an idea on upgrading the home would tie in very nicely with creating a more believeable teaqm around you that you interact with off the track as well as on it.
 
Hrm... I'm not racing because my poor DFPro is busted, and I'm still in awe of GT4. Oh well, I'll download the GTR demo and see if it's as supertacular as some say. I'm sure it's great, but if it bogs down in details, I'm not going to be an enthusiastic buyer for a good long while.

Can Gran Turismo be as technical as GTR? Sure it can. The PS3 will be the equivalent of a supercomputer. No variations of motherboards, ram size, graphics cards, CPUs, OS's and all that to code for reducing the game's potential ultimate performance. Lots of room on the PS3. Online access. It just depends on what Kazunori-san wants to put into it. I'm hopeful that much of this will be in it, because he was trying to put into GT4 the history of racing, but with the PS2 having the horsepower of a $75 Pentium II PC, a lot went unrealized. Well, now he has the technology. This will be the first Gran Turismo we've all been hollering for, a game on a PC like platform but better, with all the room in the world. It'll be running equivalent to an Intel/AMD 4 to 5ghz computer. This time, the only limit will be his imagination. And I bet you that a lot of the work for GT5 has already been done, left in folders that couldn't be crammed into GT4.

People can bail on Gran Turismo if you want, it's a free planet, at least here in the west. But I think you're being overly picky. And frankly, I don't want to be roaring along at 260kmh all the time. I get REALLY tired of it. I like rally racing. I like taking my MkIII Supra, 3000GT VR4 and 240SX out against similar unmodifieds. And modifieds.

I think next year, I'm going to be a very happy camper.

Oh and about the many different classes of racing for different careers, that's the main reason in my original post I suggested that people log into the game and have accounts. Each one would have a different driver, different team, different class of racing career with entirely different opponents. So you can have your SCCA career, your Touring Car career, your World Rally career, your Formula 1 or CART career, and for you people who like to do nothing but turn left around an oval, your NASCAR career. ;)
 
My goodness that's BRILLIANT! I have always wanted flags for Forza, but in GT it would be awesome. Especially if damage finally comes back. If I am fishtailed in a race under Career mode, that PC driver get's black flagged or at least penalized and has to do a drive-thru pitstop.
 
JohnBM01
Boys and girls, I normally mention that Gran Turismo is all about the drive. The majority of the time, you're racing. And if you're not in Gran Turismo to race, you go home. Yeah, I said it again- play hard or go home.

Here's a question I'd ask all of you. With all the racing Gran Turismo games have offered, why do you think being totally committed to racing hasn't been expressed in the deepest detail in GT games like in TOCA racing games? How deep should racing committment be in future Gran Turismo games? And is PD doing enough to satisfy the will and need to race?
Click to expand...


Do not really understand your first paragraph. I am not an a historian on Gran Turismo game series, but I do not think that the full racing simulated experience has never or will be a top priority with the makers of GT. For me it is a trade off, sure I could play better games that simulate racing, but what will I give up in doing that. GT series has a very high priority on the huge selection of cars and allowing users to drive cars they might see every day. GT has introduced or increased my knowledge of cars across the globe that otherwise would of been something I would of missed out on.
I do think tho that the level of racing must be increased, I think I am like a lot of others and have that been there done that feeling. The game just does not have that wow factor and even excitement that the earlier versions did. Sure the first few weeks are great of playing but then it gradualy tapers off. For me the lack of "R" bodies and the ever increasing displeasing race categories really takes a toll on the repeat factor. Not to mention how they messed two player mode up. Now do not get me wrong, I will still play GT4 whenever I can. I am sure if online mode would of been fully included it would eliminate a lot of negative things that I have said. Even more cars and even more tracks can only provide so much value and entertainment. I have rambled way to long and am starting to forget what I have typed so enough already. :)
 
So when it comes to making Gran Turismo games fun while having an increased focus on better racing, that leads me to a question for me to ask and PD and others to ponder about: when it comes to what makes Gran Turismo fun, how do you keep the fun of a Gran Turismo race, while stepping up the racing to a degree where many people won't feel disappointed about it all? In other words, what would be the middle ground between a fun and exciting racing game and an immersive racing game even for hardcore racing fans? Where is the middle ground? How do you reach it?
 
I don't find the races in GT4 all that fun, I would if the AI was faster and smarter ad didn't barge you out of the way. As it is, creating close races can be more frustrating than fun when you're getting whacked out of the way on every corner. Personally I'd prefer it to be a full on hardcore simulation and use GTR's level of realism.
 
I think that a lot of fun is removed when you are forced to pick cars that must meet certain requirements to enter a race. I truly believe that GT2 had the best race set-ups. Horsepower should be only restriction or classes in my opion. Manufactor races are okay and perhaps should be expanded. Why not have on say the practice events family cup etc., more options you could restrict drive train, make of car, maybe even individual model for those that like racing the same type of cars. Also if the next release has a lot more cars on the track and improved A.I., damage etc. Then somehow the goals will have to be changed, I doubt if very many would be comming in first place as much. But thats alright, give us good races, and I think we will be much happier. Maybe a top 4 finish will allow you to win the prize car, or maybe differnt prize cars for each top 4 spots.
 
What if each drive train, FF, FR, 4W, MID each had a full league system. For instance begineer FF, amatuer FF, sports FF, pro FF, vet. FF or something along those lines. Maybe each division had say 5 to 20 different races. Each race in the division could be ran at anytime, but in order to go from begineer to amatuer you had to have so many points. Also maybe say if classes was maybe up by horsepower, say 0 - 100, 100 - 200, 200 - 400, 400 - 600, 600 - 800, unlimited, with begineer to vet. level for each power class. As you progress though each level the number of opponents, number of laps, more difficult tracks, more difficult A.I., and maybe tougher penalties would be enforced.

Other ideals, for series races have them contain lots of random settings, random number of laps, random tracks ( from a preset no. for that series ), random track order ( meaning laguna seca for ex. would not always be the first track in that series ), random weather ( if it gets included ), random start times, much more random oponets. Just looking for alot more variety to spice things ups.
 
I think there should be different "characters" (i.e. AI drivers), each with their own strengths and weaknesses that you could hire to your own racing team (for instance, racer X might have a good racing line but be inexperienced with MR cars)? Of course, other teams would have their own characters, which would eventually become free agents once that team is defeated.
 

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