Is it just me or are standard cars better for racing?

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Andefir

Andefir

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I don't know if it's just and illusion but it seems that most races are won by standard cars. And it isn't just for other people, when I drive them, they really seem to be better than most premium cars. Such as the Focus RS or Elise 111R for 500pp or the ZZII or the NSX LM Road Car for 600pp. All 4 of them are standard cars.
 
Piotr Jawniak
I don't know if it's just and illusion but it seems that most races are won by standard cars. And it isn't just for other people, when I drive them, they really seem to be better than most premium cars. Such as the Focus RS or Elise 111R for 500pp or the ZZII or the NSX LM Road Car for 600pp. All 4 of them are standard cars.
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The ZZII and NSX LM Road Car are made up fantasy cars so they have exaggerated performance. Also, the old standard cars from GT4 or earlier kept their better physics even through GT5-6.
 
Polsixe
The ZZII and NSX LM Road Car are made up fantasy cars so they have exaggerated performance. Also, the old standard cars from GT4 or earlier kept their better physics even through GT5-6.
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:odd:

If something is overmodeled (or undermodeled - just plain inaccurate) that's worse, not better.
 
Streeto
They're all pretty OP cars, just coincidence that they're standard. There's slow standards and fast premiums, vice versa.

These cars you mention are very good for their PP level, people often use them to get an easy win.

I prefer to drive cars I enjoy, rather than ones I can get a cheap win with.
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I agree. Me and very few people are often the ones not using one of those popular cars like the focus rs or zzii.
 
Piotr Jawniak
I don't know if it's just and illusion but it seems that most races are won by standard cars. And it isn't just for other people, when I drive them, they really seem to be better than most premium cars. Such as the Focus RS or Elise 111R for 500pp or the ZZII or the NSX LM Road Car for 600pp. All 4 of them are standard cars.
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The 111R is a premium. The ZZII and NSX LM Road Car are superior due to PD removing aero from the PP calculation. In GT5 when aero was in PP, both cars had significantly less horsepower relative to GT6 and it made them less competitive. The LM road car is essentially a GT500 level car and the ZZ has downforce equal to a lesser race car.
 
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Streeto
Yeah that's true I forgot they took downforce out of the equation. Strange really...

If only there was a way to restrict use of extra downforce.
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Weren't tires part of the formula at one point too? I could swear I remember that. It really makes no sense anymore. Aero and rubber are huge factors of how fast a vehicle can get around an average circuit (which is what the unit-less number is supposed to represent to allow direct comparisons and close matchups of different vehicle types).
 
DrkPhnyx
Weren't tires part of the formula at one point too? I could swear I remember that. It really makes no sense anymore. Aero and rubber are huge factors of how fast a vehicle can get around an average circuit (which is what the unit-less number is supposed to represent to allow direct comparisons and close matchups of different vehicle types).
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In the very beginning of GT5 but IMO, if you can't get the system right with everyone on the same rubber, throwing in another huge variable like tire grip isn't going to make it any better.
 
Johnnypenso
In the very beginning of GT5 but IMO, if you can't get the system right with everyone on the same rubber, throwing in another huge variable like tire grip isn't going to make it any better.
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While I wouldn't say adding to the equation would make it any simpler, I would say that it's every bit as vital as power and weight (if not more-so). At least with some arbitrary amount added for each compound level you would have better matchups. Might still be broken, but would be better than it is now. (sort of like with aero)

Makes one really wonder just what they hell they are thinking.
 
DrkPhnyx
While I wouldn't say adding to the equation would make it any simpler, I would say that it's every bit as vital as power and weight (if not more-so). At least with some arbitrary amount added for each compound level you would have better matchups. Might still be broken, but would be better than it is now. (sort of like with aero)

Makes one really wonder just what they hell they are thinking.
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Outside of organized leagues, almost all PP racing online are short sprints of less than 10 minutes and without tire wear and usually on RS tires. By encouraging people to use lesser tires all it does is create an imbalance on the track. With less grip, to even out the PP you have to have more power. So you corner slower, and go faster in a straight line. I'm not sure how that could possibly make for better racing online when it's already atrocious with everyone on the same tire. IMO it's one of those things that sounds good in theory but in practice doesn't really pan out.
 
Johnnypenso
Outside of organized leagues, almost all PP racing online are short sprints of less than 10 minutes and without tire wear and usually on RS tires. By encouraging people to use lesser tires all it does is create an imbalance on the track. With less grip, to even out the PP you have to have more power. So you corner slower, and go faster in a straight line. I'm not sure how that could possibly make for better racing online when it's already atrocious with everyone on the same tire. IMO it's one of those things that sounds good in theory but in practice doesn't really pan out.
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Yes, with everyone on RS tires, and that is so much of what is wrong with online in this game/sim. As a sim, the point is to drive (virtually) real cars in a real way. Who wouldn't want to take their favorite car to a great track and just wring it out? But if you put F1 soft tires on it, well, it's not the same car you drive on the street, so it's rather meaningless really.

But that's a different thought - as hard as it is to find rooms with SH limits, assuming you do... what I mean is that a car that is 500pp on CS should not be 500pp on SH. In fact, given that PP is supposed to be a unitless measure of how fast a given vehicle will get around a theoretical average circuit, thereby allowing direct comparison and, supposedly, allowing for close matchups, slapping on grippier tires completely destroys that. (lets just ignore the ringers like the GSX-R and such for now anyway) The basic theory behind it is (or was) that I'll take anything I like, and you take anything you like, and if both are 450pp, we should be in fairly evenly matched vehicles on a course that is equal parts tight corners and fast sections. Maybe yours is better at the corners, mine is better at the fast sections, but on a track that is a balance of the 2, it should be a close race. But.... if I can put grippier rubber on (and you may not want to because it may ruin the balance or pleasure for you), then I can counter-act your advantage. But then, I'm not really at 450pp anymore, in actuality anyway, but the code doesn't penalize me appropriately.

If tires were counted (along with aero), you could have some quite interesting matchups. Taking beasts and putting them on slippery rubber to compete against less insane cars on grippier rubber, etc.

Not that this would fix the system. It's broken far beyond that, but it would make it more like what it is supposed to be, and therefore, better. It's hard enough as it is to get decent matchups online with the unwashed. That's down to the combination of limits of what the host can set for the room and the masses doing anything possible to game their way around those limits.

Anyway, I just wish it included that stuff. Would make much more sense. :/
 
Tires affected PP in GT5 Prologue. I hated it when tires weren't a factor anymore. I look at it now and realize online racing would be worse if that feature was available with all the careless drivers. Also I don't see a problem with using racing tires on street cars. We are racing. If you setup a room for serious racing then it should be allowed. Look at it this way, you have a pit crew, that's pretty serious. Realistically you wouldn't see them put on street tires in a real world race.

Back on topic, I use a few premium cars that I think have an advantage like the M5 and Audi R8. I'm able to keep up with people using the ZZII with those cars. Don't forget about the Enzo.
 
Polsixe
No, just one was made as a concept, similar to the Vision Cars. GSX-R/4 was also just a one off concept car. PD was a little optimistic in projecting their performance.
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Wiki: "The ZZ II was a $90,000 sportscar 2 door coupe production car with a mid mounted tuned RB26DETT (Nissan Skyline GT-R motor) rated at 550 PS (542 hp) with 6pot front and 4pot rear brakes. It also featured front and rear aero diffusers, and a fully built roll cage."
 
Jaywalker
Wiki: "The ZZ II was a $90,000 sportscar 2 door coupe production car with a mid mounted tuned RB26DETT (Nissan Skyline GT-R motor) rated at 550 PS (542 hp) with 6pot front and 4pot rear brakes. It also featured front and rear aero diffusers, and a fully built roll cage."
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Read the in game description of the car also,
 
I defintly noticed a difference between premium and standard cars during a 500pp race at Sierra. All the races were being won by a guy in a mazda rx something. So I went off to buy one of my own. the one he was using was a standard. I personally cannot drive standard cars, because it bothers me so much.
So this led me to buy a car that was a few model years newer. this one had a detailed interior. all the stats that the dealership listed were equal to the car I was going to race against. I bought it, raised it up to 500pp, re entered the room were the same guy was winning with the same car, and lost to him. :grumpy::irked::mad::banghead:
 
Jaywalker
Wiki: "The ZZ II was a $90,000 sportscar 2 door coupe production car with a mid mounted tuned RB26DETT (Nissan Skyline GT-R motor) rated at 550 PS (542 hp) with 6pot front and 4pot rear brakes. It also featured front and rear aero diffusers, and a fully built roll cage."
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The car was intended for production but never made it. You can't really call a car with only one of them ever made "production" IMO, that makes it a prototype.
 
Polsixe
No, just one was made as a concept, similar to the Vision Cars. GSX-R/4 was also just a one off concept car. PD was a little optimistic in projecting their performance.
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The article says production car, but it is wiki, so it's probably not the most reliable source.

But if you search images on goole, youllfind multiple examples of the real car.
 
V8GTdriver
Tires affected PP in GT5 Prologue. I hated it when tires weren't a factor anymore. I look at it now and realize online racing would be worse if that feature was available with all the careless drivers. Also I don't see a problem with using racing tires on street cars. We are racing. If you setup a room for serious racing then it should be allowed. Look at it this way, you have a pit crew, that's pretty serious. Realistically you wouldn't see them put on street tires in a real world race.
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If I was racing for real, with all that money and crew, I wouldn't use a street car, or even a street legal car. I'd use a race car. Maybe not an LMP or FGT, but at least an SCCA modded - stripped out, carged, fully built and tuned race car. And yeah, I'd put it on race slicks.

But this is the real driving simulator, not the real racing simulator. I'm sure we all want to take our personal cars, or dream cars, to the track and see what they would do. But like I said, take your car to the track, put F1 tires on it, and what you experience won't really be the car can do in the real world. So it's meaningless as an experience. And as a person who likes SH and CS, I want to be able to better match up against opponent.s Sure, I could go with SS or Rwhatever, but that's not what my cars are tuned for, and it actually can be a detriment. I ran a race with a friend using my Aventador (stock) against his modded 458. We were both on SS. I didn't like it. It didn't feel right. It's too knife edgy. It doesn't talk to you. I went back to SH and left him using his SS. But against the mooks online who've totally stripped out their cars in ridiculous fashion, I never stand a chance. This is especially so with tires not being part of PP (neverminding the fact that it's illogical for it not to be included)


Back on topic, I use a few premium cars that I think have an advantage like the M5 and Audi R8. I'm able to keep up with people using the ZZII with those cars. Don't forget about the Enzo.
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dylanlikes88
I defintly noticed a difference between premium and standard cars during a 500pp race at Sierra. All the races were being won by a guy in a mazda rx something. So I went off to buy one of my own. the one he was using was a standard. I personally cannot drive standard cars, because it bothers me so much.
So this led me to buy a car that was a few model years newer. this one had a detailed interior. all the stats that the dealership listed were equal to the car I was going to race against. I bought it, raised it up to 500pp, re entered the room were the same guy was winning with the same car, and lost to him. :grumpy::irked::mad::banghead:
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This stuff, plus some reflections of my own make me think that the standards are overmodeled. I know I've had to fix a few, weight-wise (to match reality), so there seems to be less care involved in making them.
 
Piotr Jawniak
I don't know if it's just and illusion but it seems that most races are won by standard cars. And it isn't just for other people, when I drive them, they really seem to be better than most premium cars. Such as the Focus RS or Elise 111R for 500pp or the ZZII or the NSX LM Road Car for 600pp. All 4 of them are standard cars.
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If you want an overkill Premium car for 500PP races, use the Ferrari Dino 246 GT. That car may be old and not as rigid as modern cars, but it can have an insane power/weight ratio, making it very fast at straights. And because its drivetrain is MR, with proper tuning it becomes a real monster at corners.
 

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