Is it just me?

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pinkpolobro

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BACKGROUND - OK. I have been playing racing games forever. Both racing and drifting a lot. Every Gran Turismo, every Forza, and even LFS with a xbox360 controller. Ranked in the top 500 for most tracks in Drifting on both Forza 4 and GT5. I have also been drifting in real life for 4 years now, even on a competitive level at local events.

THE PROBLEM - I have always used the standard controller when playing video games... but I just recieved the Fanatec CSR+CSR Shifters+CSR Elite pedals. Again, this is the first time I have ever used a wheel for games. I set it up and put in the recommended settings... expecting my new video game playing setup to be exponentially better and (obviously)more realistic than a stupid xbox/ps controller. Since I drive cars and am an avid car nut in real life, I smile as my first race in Forza 4 loads... Haul ass as usual towards the first turn on Suzuka ready to throw the car into the turn sideways, then countersteer... Lets just say bad things happened. Anyways, I thought to myself "maybe there is a learning curve and I am going to fast" so I restart and proceed to drive the car around the track without drifting or pushing it too hard. I was on a sunday drive. Nothing felt real at all. Then I thought to myself "maybe I should try it on a real game. So I turned on my PC and booted LFS. Messed with the settings. BTW I tried 270-900 and multiple settings on Forza and LFS. Driving normally in LFS felt 100 times better than Forza, but it still didnt feel anywhere near realistic. I couldnt push it hard for a fast lap time, and I could not drift AT ALL! I just wondered how people in Youtube videos seemed to have no problems driving while I looked like a Toddler who stole his mom's Grand Caravan.

---- SO HERE IS MY QUESTION ----

Is there something wrong with my wheel?

There are only 3 possible explanations I can think of...
A) My wheel is messed up.
B) I'm just not made for gaming with a wheel because I dont get the feel of the car and environment like in real life.
C) Video games (even LFS) are complete jokes when compared to real life. (yes we already know games are far from real life, but I mean ALMOST LIKE REAL LIFE BEING AN ORANGE AND GAME BEING AN ALBINO BABY OCTOPUS)

...scratches head and regrets spending $500 that could have bought me a kouki front bumper and skirts for my s13.
 
Slashfan
Practice practice practice.
Click to expand...

I fear "getting used to it" in this case. Who wants to spend money and time on something like this when they can do the same thing in a real car. I guess it just wasn't what I expected. How there is such a following is beyond me now that I have tried it. I guess the main group behind the popularity are people too young to have driven real cars as comparison, and thats the driving force.
 
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LOL no offense. You can do these things in a real car? You're not a "real" driver then. Because if I did the things I do in rFactor in a real car, I'd be in prison. Secondly, I actually drive real cars on tracks. I have a track prepped Porsche and a autocross Xfire couple. And can honestly tell you that even driving real cars, while driving the "fake" cars in PC and console racing is also fun.

Yes, its not real road racing. But to be honest with my motion platform, surround sound, tactile feedback, I have WAY WAY WAY more fun, than ever driving my cars to the grocery store or on the highway. WAY more.

So unless you're tracking, or racing, you're statements are so far off its funny. Secondly, playing console racing with a controller, then buying a wheel for the first time and attaching it to your table and chair pales to hard core sim racing. Might as well be comparing driving a Yugo to a Ferrari. Again, no offense but we already have to defend our hobby from know nothing wives and relatives. LOL

My .02
 
Are you using the same tunings as you had when you were using a stick? sometimes controller settings on a wheel make it undrivable. play with the linearity controls in the advanced settings and make sure your wheel isnt configured to some other wheel settings (i think the microsoft wheel is default)
 
pinkpolobro
Haul ass as usual towards the first turn on Suzuka ready to throw the car into the turn sideways, then countersteer... Lets just say bad things happened. ... I couldnt push it hard for a fast lap time, and I could not drift AT ALL! I just wondered how people in Youtube videos seemed to have no problems driving while I looked like a Toddler who stole his mom's Grand Caravan.

---- SO HERE IS MY QUESTION ----

Is there something wrong with my wheel?

There are only 3 possible explanations I can think of...
A) My wheel is messed up.
B) I'm just not made for gaming with a wheel because I dont get the feel of the car and environment like in real life.
C) Video games (even LFS) are complete jokes when compared to real life. (yes we already know games are far from real life, but I mean ALMOST LIKE REAL LIFE BEING AN ORANGE AND GAME BEING AN ALBINO BABY OCTOPUS)

...scratches head and regrets spending $500 that could have bought me a kouki front bumper and skirts for my s13.
Click to expand...

Lol @ the bolded part

There's actually a 4th option - you can't just throw a car into a corner for the first time and expect to drift flawlessly. :dunce: It's very easy to drift with a controller because it takes no time at all to go from lock to lock as opposed to a wheel set to 720-900 degrees of rotation. Learn to race properly with the wheel before trying fancy stuff. 👍
 
Mayaman
LOL no offense. You can do these things in a real car? You're not a "real" driver then. Because if I did the things I do in rFactor in a real car, I'd be in prison. Secondly, I actually drive real cars on tracks. I have a track prepped Porsche and a autocross Xfire couple. And can honestly tell you that even driving real cars, while driving the "fake" cars in PC and console racing is also fun.

Yes, its not real road racing. But to be honest with my motion platform, surround sound, tactile feedback, I have WAY WAY WAY more fun, than ever driving my cars to the grocery store or on the highway. WAY more.

So unless you're tracking, or racing, you're statements are so far off its funny. Secondly, playing console racing with a controller, then buying a wheel for the first time and attaching it to your table and chair pales to hard core sim racing. Might as well be comparing driving a Yugo to a Ferrari. Again, no offense but we already have to defend our hobby from know nothing wives and relatives. LOL

My .02
Click to expand...

I knew someone would reply in this fashion... but thats why I have a youtube channel. and for the record, I haven't even tried to drive hard yet since I can't even drive slowly with the damn thing yet.

enjoy:

 
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I knew someone would respond to my response in this fashion. I stand by my statements. :)

We've both driven real cars hard. If you don't have a proper sim rig set up correctly, just like if you don't have a real car set up correctly, the results will be subpar.

take care

Oh yeah, forgot to mention the 240SX is a fav of mine. :)
 
It took me about a month of practice to learn to 'work with' the FFB on my G27. I'm still not perfect, but after that month I started making times faster than I ever had with my DS3. I'm usually around 5000-10000 in the TTs, depending on the challenge.

Before my wheel I was struggling to get bronzes and silvers on sports/comfort tires. Now, with the gentler inputs of the wheel and pedals I'm much smoother and have posted times that for me were quite good.

Enjoy your wheel :)
 
that's pretty normal, you havent gotten used to using the wheel yet. there's also a lot to learn about virtual racing, especially the physics, the feel, and the limits. not totally like real life racing but the brain will adjust eventually to find the similarities between the two.

i too race real life cars (circuit cars and race karts) but unlike you i started with the simulators first for my training. i guess it works better that way since i learned a lot and easily catapulted to podium positions compared to my buddies who didnt train with sims. on the other hand, the highly experienced and successful senior racers who never played with racing sims were really bad sim racers. they just cant get the feel, even with the FFB on. BUT, its a different story with the younger racers, they can easily adapt and eventually do very well with sims.

so what im saying is, it all goes down to the individual ability to adapt quickly in any racing situation, be it virtual or real life racing. that is i think the most important aspect of a racer. dry or wet, virtual or real, wheel or analog controller, good or bad settings, a racer must always quickly adapt.

when i race virtual and real life i can say that my movements are pretty much the same. same hand and foot movements. the brain will compute and somehow bridge the similarities. minus the g-force of course.

oh one more thing, i never ever tinkered around with the wheel settings so i race my sims pretty much "stock" if you can call it that. i dont have a favorite setting, i just adapt to whatever there is.

play some more. adapt.
 
after lots of settings tinkering I have managed to get it as good as I think I can. In racimg, I can now come within a couple seconds of my previous lap times. I think I have realized the problem (aside from not feeling the forces obviously)... the wheel has great feel to it when making low degree movement(most turns at higher speeds) but once you turn the wheel a certain point, it goes numb. Whenever the rear end breaks loose, you cannot feel the front tires WHATSOEVER. its not a dampened feel, it complete absense.

Is that normal? any way to tune that out with the wheels settings?

BTW, the CSR Elite pedals are amazing. that I will sincerely say. they feel 99.9% like real pedals. and that is just mentioning the input feel. the build quality and solid feel are a whole other strong point. I can twist and tug at each pedal and there isnt even a hint of movement other than in and out.
 
What's up fellow S13'er, I have to really agree with oldskuls and Mayaman here, it's something that takes some practice and maybe a bit of imagination. To understand what the wheel is telling you with it's FFB can really throw a newbie off, even longtime real life drivers/racers.

When you're loosing the back or front to some extent, you have to immediately act like you would in reality... lightning fast counter-steer with just the right amount of throttle lift. In real cars you may not loose so much strength (depending on the cars power-steering) but at the end of the day that's exactly the feeling you get.

I'm not saying GT5 is anything perfect, there's still a bit to go as far as physics and appropriate FFB, because it does feel a little washed out right now. I know people are raving about iRacing's solid feel, I'll be giving that a shot this summer when I slap together a new PC, but I have all the faith in PD to get right on top of the physics when the next title hits. I just can't have fun with sims without the amazing variety of street cars that GT offers.

But for now GT5 is pretty fun, it's still relatively realistic for my needs and I can totally relate to what the FFB is telling me a bout the cars balance. Keep going and maybe turn a few dozen laps with the good old Miata or Silvia, because faster cars take a lot of precise and smooth input to drive perfectly.
 
I mainly play Forza and LFS. IDK, the whole problem has been narrowed down to front end feel. everything else is already adapted to thanks to a couple of hours straight hotlapping the Nur. there is just no feel to the front end whatsoever once it gets pitched sideways. in real life when pitched sideways you can still tell by feel exactly which way your wheels are pointed during a slide... in every game with this wheel so far, the second I lose traction the front goes 100% numb until it reaches the end of its ffb rotation. that is the only thing throwing me off at this point. everything else is smoothing over. I also have no rear feel/vibration now that i think about it.

loving it until the car gets loose, than I am let down. Also, I was mislead by all the rants and reviews about the Fanatecs being quiet... mine sounds like a g25 to me. maybe I got a busted wheel.
 
ok I am 99% sure my problems can be sorted out with tuning, or there is a problem with my wheel. I have watched countless youtube videos of people drifting 900 degrees and the motions seem very realistic. I do not think it is a learning curve because the way my wheel is acting resembles none of the things other people are experiencing.

what I would like is for someone who actually DRIFTS in Forza or LFS (900 degrees only or dont bother) and is legit good to shine some light on tuning both in game and on the fanatec. oversteering is where it all goes sour... acts like there is no set scale of rotation. one minute it will act like its true 900 degrees then randomly snap into some 270 degree ********. its not me, and that is certain at this point. think what you want but you wouldnt understand what I mean until youve tried my wheel.

also, my fans are no longer running at any time I believe. dont hear the sound like I did before... but im going to beat the **** out of that wheel until its broken or works remotely similar to a real car when countersteering.
 
IDK. I never had any problems countersteering. My problems is being aware of the moment right before the rear of the car begins to step out (obviously this is what G forces help you with). With mid to low power production cars I find GT5 to be great. Miata handles like a Miata. Its not perfect, but its not so distant as to be confusing. Biggest problem is choosing the right tire so it feels right.

FM4 is a bit twitchy with the steering assists off. iRacing does not have any production cars so I cannot comment, but maybe you should try that. As far as LFS, I never had any problems with a stock setup and my G25. I think the cars are a little floaty and tend to oversteer too much, but this could just be me.
 
I'll try to explain what is happening... I initiate oversteer and begin to countersteer accordingly(this part has no problems), and as long as I continue rotating the wheel the SAME direction it is fine... but the SECOND I have to make a tad adjustmen back the other way or saw at it a little... it is as if the wheel recenters in the actual game(not the physical wheel in my hand, but it notices it and reacts accordingly)

soo... I am not getting proper linear movement on the axis. I have tried to tune it out to no avail. it is like the game gets confused the second you saw at the wheel mid drift.

best way I can explain it nothing more to add. that is my problem 100%
 
I don't believe I'm having the issues you are describing, but a lack of front end feel is certainly one of them. I made another thread discussing the issues - I have the CSR-E wheel, but I believe the CSR does have a "drift" setting, have you tried messing with that?

Also, I'm not 100% clear on the issue you're having - you are saying that the wheel is not linear, i.e. the rotation input you put in changes when you correct? That isn't a problem I'm having - are you connecting it to the xbox per instructions?
 
OK, I have SOLVED IT!... well, for the most part anyways. now, while it is obviously still very far from being as realistic as real drifting(for those of us who have actually turned oversteer into a habit would only know), it is manageable and doesnt do that stupid axis stuff it was doing before(well for me anyhow). the key is the setting DAMPER (DPR) on the fanatec wheels. if it is at 0 or above(positive) it does funny things on the steering axis mid countersteer. if it is negative(I use -3 because it optimizes the fix) there is no more stupid resetting of the steering when you saw back and forth to make adjustments, it holds its place. i have messed with all of the other settings like spring, deadzone, and linearity... and they all make it worse.

so here are my settings and i will list why for each value. this optimizes drifting for realism and may provide hurdles for racing, but i use it for racing to because one setting that is real for one type of driving should transfer over on a street car, makes no sense why it wouldnt.

Sensitivity(SEN): 900* because it is the most realistic for street cars and provides the most room for adjustments which is what you want for drifting

Force FeedBack(FFB): 100 because I'm not a wimp and it is more realistic.

Shock Vibration(SHO): 100 because you want to feel every little bump dont you?

Drift Mode(DRI): 5 because I want the wheel to spin in my hands the fastest it possibly can(wish it were faster and stronger even)

ABS Vibration(ABS): I run without ABS so I found that setting it at 80 is just about a hair before the brakes lock up so you have a warning right before they lock. I never lock brakes up with that setting.

Linearity(LIN): set to 0 because it does fake things that are irrelevent in real life

Dead Zone Setting(DEA): set to 0 because who the hell wants a deadzone?

Spring(SPR): set to 0 because if changed it starts to counteract my fix

Damper(DPR): set to -3 because it fixes the unrealistic ******** that is programmed into the wheel (wish it could go even more negative, you would get even more realistic smooth countersteering...do you hear me Fanatec?) EVERYONE GO AND TRY THIS, YOU MAY NOT HAVE NOTICED IT UNLESS YOU INTENTIONALLY LIKE DRIFTING OR ARE ALWAYS TAIL HAPPY, YOU WILL SEE WHAT I MEAN.

FOR FORZA 4... in game settings under controller/advanced.........

all inner deadzones set to 0 ... and all outer deadzones set to 100 (this means no stupid deadzones)

vibration: whatever you want I run 100 like i do on the wheel.

force feedback: whatever you want. since i have 100 on the wheel i use 75 in the forza settings. any more and it feels like you are breaking your belt. lol you can go lower though for a more dull feel with less snap, but who doesnt like snap and direct feel when making precision countersteering adjustments

GOOD DAY
 
I think there must have been something wrong in your LFS settings because I find that game very intuitive to drift with a wheel compared to any console game. Of course training takes time. Forza uses different FFB system than PC and PS3 games and you might have trouble adjusting mode subtle pointers. Also all games have tons of hidden aids when playing with regular controllers.

EDIT: Did not read whole thread, good that you got it sorted.
 
I probably shouldnt take the real credit though. I learned this by getting a setup reccomendation from a guy on xbox live. he said he only had his fanatec for a couple of days and he was drifting like a pro. it frustrated me so bad. he is the founder of the -3 damper i guess. fixes the assumed bug in forzas countersteering and seemed to help in LFS too. he said he is going to make a video so that more people can find out about it because apparently lots of people new to the fanatecs are having a time with that problem. i added him and i will post the link if and when he makes a tutorial.. well, if he isnt already on here idk maybe forzaplanet.

now i am a proud and happy owner of a fanatec wheel. happy gaming :))))))))))))))))))))))))))
 

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