Is it possible for PD to outdo MGS4 graphically?

[tiequinn]

Having played with GT5P for 2 months now, it's a beautiful, wonderful racing sim. PD often brag about how the game runs at 1080p with 60fps. It's really a beautiful game, espically when you play in cockpit view. (it's the only way to take the full advantage of the cell processor's power with full lighting effect in the cockpit) Then I got Metal Gear Solid 4 and my view changed. MGS4's graphics are so awesome (full ultra fine billowing black smokes, doesn't use the same texture over and over, incredibly varied desgin area, top notch character model, cutscene rendered in real time, 70+ guns, crystal clear AntiAlaising, shadows are smoother, need I say more?) I'm beginning to think the full GT5 will not shine as brightly as the MGS4 because of some flaws I've encountered in GT5P. (some cars interior is static like the GTR. the center console should be animated and dymanic showing changing data or the audi, you get the idea) Polyphony's focusing on numbers of the cars, not the quality of cars. (working wipers? raining condition? HDR when the sun's setting in edurance races, dirt building up on windshield in rally tracks and using wipers clear off the dirt? driver's hand reaching for wipers switch or light switch?, sunset to night time racing with full HDR?, etc) If PD pulls those things off, it'll surely surprass MGS4's graphics. I sure do hope Polyphony can prove me wrong. What's your take on this? will Polyphony outdo the MGS's team Konami's

 

[SolidSnake15]

To put it simple, MGS has a lot less to render than GT5 will have. This allows MGS to have better graphics.

 

[91hondawagon]

In my opinion, the two games aren't really comparable. GT is a driving sim while MGS4 is a first-person shooter. Therefore, the environments and gameplay are automatically going to be vastly different.

MGS4's environments require a lot of interaction, like opening doors, shooting out lights, that kind of stuff. Because Snake is a human and is walking around doing stuff, a lot of immersion and interaction is needed. There are also a lot of other characters in MGS4 that Snake gets really close to and interacts with, so they need to be well-done graphically in order to make the game high-quality.

In GT5, you're in a car all the time. You can't get out of it and explore the environments on foot because you'll be busy going really, really fast. All the interactive stuff that's in MGS4 is impractical in GT5 and other racing sims, simply because you're too busy focusing on the race than you are on the environment. For example, let's say the roller coaster and Ferris wheel near Suzuka are animated. It would be a nice touch, but I would never notice it, simply because I'd be more worried about winning the race and not crashing than I would be about how detailed the environment is.

In short, what I'm saying is that the environment graphics are not as good as MGS4's because they simply don't need to be, and making them as good as MGS4 would reduce system performance and would be irrelevant to the gameplay. Kaz has stated in the past that Polyphony is walking a fine line between graphics and performance quality, and adding more details would make the game lag too much.

By the way, I think that the cars in GT5 are the most graphically stunning objects I have ever seen in a PS3 game. And some of the features that you mentioned (wipers, night/day environments, etc.) are rumored to be included by the time the full GT5 is released.

In my opinion, Polyphony has done an incredible job graphically so far. Not many PS3 games are rendered in 1080p (even Prologue is upconverted), and at 60fps, no less, with enormous racetrack environments and 16 highly-rendered cars. But the difference between an FPS and a driving sim makes the two games impossible to compare graphics-wise.

 

[JohnBM01]

I'm not going to say that this is a stupid question. It's what I thought at first (to be explained later). But let me explain this thing.

Gran Turismo 5 is styled the way it is because it's a racing game. The game has to be styled and appointed with racing game-style aspects and features. Most racing games have one dimension as far as graphics go- how fast can frames run while running at high speeds? Wonder why you don't really see carnage of a torn environment as seen in an action game? It's because you don't want to have too much intensity of ruined environments. Action games and racing games are appointed accordingly to represent whatever kind of material they present. I haven't played Metal Gear Solid 4 (I've never truly played ANY MGS to be honest), but MGS4 is beautiful for its genre. GT5 is lovely for its genre. Why should a racing game have the kind of graphical quality of an action game? You'd have lots of slowing down from a logistical standpoint.

So where does the "stupid question" aspect come in? To me, it's asking if a game if a racing game can outdo an action game graphically. That's usually not possible. You might as well ask if Grand Theft Auto 4 can outdo "Gears of War 2" graphically. It's foolish to ask because this is a classic case of apples vs. oranges. Since I've had a recent track record of making laughable points, you all are free to disagree with this post if you like...

 

[tupacrulez]

John: whilst I agree, MGS4 is held back by it's variety. because there are probably more PoS (particles on Screen) on average than GT5 will have, the game has to keep up with those particles.

Also, there is more going on in MGS. you have rounds from a gun before fired, animations for perhaps a dozen different people, explosions, battleground smoke/dust, dirt flying, bullets flying, and muzzle flashes going off. Add in the Gekkou fights, and the possibility of an Alert phase (meaning more enemies) and I'm sure MGS4 at it's peak is pushing the PS3 as far as it can to keep up, same as GT5 is when you're flying down the mulsanne with as many as 15 cars up your ass.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

To put it simple, MGS has a lot less to render than GT5 will have. This allows MGS to have better graphics.

How can you quantify that? Metal Gear Solid is a vastly different beast to Gran Turismo in terms of what it has to show on-screen, and as more games are developed on the console, the better the graphics get. Look at Final Fantasy X in comparison to Final Fantasy XII: both pushed the PlayStation 2 to the known limit when they were made, and while FFX had less to render, FFXII had the superior graphics. Sure, Kojima-san likes to get as much out of a system as he can, but I think you could apply the same label to Yamauchi-san. And with reports that GT5 won't be coming out until 2010 (or at the very least, mid-late 2009), third-party developers will probably be able to get more out of the PS3 simply because they've been using it for longer than thus know the ins and outs of it. So don't say that because one thing happens, another must always be true all of the time.