Is there a "built in" aid while driving on grass?

[TomBrady]

I've noticed that when driving on grass, the tires don't spin, your speed is INSANELY limited, and on your throttle indicator, it's half red. Especially when you have "grip level" set to real, it's insanely bad. Is there a built in aid in GT5? There's gotta be on right?

I personally think that the grip levels in the grass in GT5 is very inaccurate. The lack of grip, lack of control, and mostly the lack of possible speed is just ridiculously exaggerated.

I usually like everything to be set to max realism except the "grip level". Of course when there's weather, or on a city track, I think setting it to Real is more accurate but it's a double edged sword I think. Setting it to real gives you more realism in the rain, snow, or on city tracks, but on a normal circuit with lots of grass and sand, it seems over exaggerated to me.

I play a lot of professional PC simulators, which on tarmac have less grip than GT5, but on grass have at least double the grip GT5 has. It's just weird. It really doesn't seem natural especially when compared to real life as well. I know for a fact cars can go a lot faster on grass than they will in GT5 even with slick tires, let alone normal road tires.

I don't know. Somebody has to have done thorough and proper research on this right? I can't be the only one to notice this

 

[Bluntified]

Sorry man, I keep my car on the road lol, I couldn't tell you.

 

[Lion-Face]

I like how you said 'professional pc simulators' hehe

Basically, yes when you go full off tarmac on a road track, the game limits your accelerator input making it easier for you to regain control amd get back on track.

Also, for someone who thrives on realism, why aren't your grip levels set to real all the time? It affects every track and the simulation of the game

 

[Morgoth_666]

I've never felt there was less grip than I'd expect or than I've seen in other games and sims on the grass myself. If you clip it while turning hard on the gas you spin right away, if you lift a bit and relax the steering a little you're generally ok.

I actually think there's too much grip on "low" as you can just plow right through most grassy sections with very little risk. But then I usually don't play around in the grass very long to examine it, and my real-life grass-driving experience has rarely exceeded 15mph or involved hard cornering.

At low speeds grass is like ice, but GT5 seems to have a problem with low speed grip across the board. Actually that predates GT5.

But yes, there is some sort of unremovable traction control that seems to kick in whenever both(not sure for AWD) drive wheels are in the grass. I find it quite annoying, mostly because of the way it cuts off when you are trying to retake the track and comes back halfway through recovering from the spin that often causes. Unless you reach the road at near a 90 degree angle, you have to gun it to get back to the track, then tip-toe for a while until the car settles down on the pavement.

 

[Samus]

I like how you said 'professional pc simulators' hehe

Yes Mr Brady will take any opportunity possible to let us all know how he plays the most realistic racing sims and how he is dedicated to realism.

 

[TomBrady]

I like how you said 'professional pc simulators' hehe

Basically, yes when you go full off tarmac on a road track, the game limits your accelerator input making it easier for you to regain control amd get back on track.

Also, for someone who thrives on realism, why aren't your grip levels set to real all the time? It affects every track and the simulation of the game

Limiting the throttle input adversely makes things less realistic because the speeds your limited to are so far below what would be accurate.

I know what I feel. And from going off in PC sims that are considered much more realistic all around, and driving on grass myself in the real, setting it to Real just isn't real at all.

Except of course for rally racing and in wet weather, then it's absolutely necessary but if grass is all there is to contend with I don't see the point of limiting speed to an unrealistic point just so one of the settings says "real" instead of "low"

I've never felt there was less grip than I'd expect or than I've seen in other games and sims on the grass myself. If you clip it while turning hard on the gas you spin right away, if you lift a bit and relax the steering a little you're generally ok.

I actually think there's too much grip on "low" as you can just plow right through most grassy sections with very little risk. But then I usually don't play around in the grass very long to examine it, and my real-life grass-driving experience has rarely exceeded 15mph or involved hard cornering.

At low speeds grass is like ice, but GT5 seems to have a problem with low speed grip across the board. Actually that predates GT5.

But yes, there is some sort of unremovable traction control that seems to kick in whenever both(not sure for AWD) drive wheels are in the grass. I find it quite annoying, mostly because of the way it cuts off when you are trying to retake the track and comes back halfway through recovering from the spin that often causes. Unless you reach the road at near a 90 degree angle, you have to gun it to get back to the track, then tip-toe for a while until the car settles down on the pavement.

have you played iracing or netkar? It's actually extremely easy to drive on and get out of the grass in those sims and the funny thing is those sims have less grip to work with on tarmac than GT5, but far more grip in the grass. That's what made me really start to notice and get annoyed with GT5.

There is a built in aid, and I think it's too much. If they took it off, sure, some people would spin but that's part of sim racing. Once you learn how to drive on grass it's a piece of cake. Unrealistically limiting speed in the grass well, I just don't like it.

Of course, driving on grass only takes up about 3% of our overall play time on GT5 or something like that, so I guess I'm nitpicking by complaining about it but it just seems like something that is overlooked by most people.

I think people know there's a built in aid on grass, but no one really cares.

Yes Mr Brady will take any opportunity possible to let us all know how he plays the most realistic racing sims and how he is dedicated to realism.

How did I know you were going to show up. You really need to get over it man. I make a thread a month ago, and purposely leave it because I don't want to argue, and you come here still angry about it. Maybe if you stopped trying so hard, you would be able to just ignore the people you don't like. I know I will be (you)

 

[PAPPACLART]

To answer you question yes, I would agree there is some kind of aid, but it is strange as touching a wheel on the grass while motoring through a corner has an often realistic effect, spinning the car but giving it full throttle on the grass is like having the TC constantly kick it in?

It is certainly not perfect as with many things GT.

 

[Raggi Boy]

actually i find driving on grass can boost speed, like in the x11 around Indianapolis course you can go faster, not sure if its just limited to suck cars or not

 

[Lion-Face]

Limiting the throttle input adversely makes things less realistic because the speeds your limited to are so far below what would be accurate.

I know what I feel. And from going off in PC sims that are considered much more realistic all around, and driving on grass myself in the real, setting it to Real just isn't real at all.

Except of course for rally racing and in wet weather, then it's absolutely necessary but if grass is all there is to contend with I don't see the point of limiting speed to an unrealistic point just so one of the settings says "real" instead of "low"

The only time your speed is limited is if your fully off track. Putting 2 wheels on the grass doesn't induce the 'off track aid' which is just there to help you get back on track after a spin.

Grip Reduction set to real affects on track grip, racing line in particular. With it set to low, all the track has the same grip level. Where if you set it to Real, the racing line has more grip than off the racing line.

 

[TomBrady]

The only time your speed is limited is if your fully off track. Putting 2 wheels on the grass doesn't induce the 'off track aid' which is just there to help you get back on track after a spin.

Grip Reduction set to real affects on track grip, racing line in particular. With it set to low, all the track has the same grip level. Where if you set it to Real, the racing line has more grip than off the racing line.

No it only affects the track edges, the grass, and grip levels in wet weather conditions. If it's dry it only effects grass, sand, and rumble strips. In the wet it affects everything.

If you don't believe me, do some laps with it set to low, and then some on real. Assuming you don't ride the rumble strips the laps will be no different except for human error. Setting it to real does not effect overall track grip unless the track's wet, it says it right in the description

Also, that's not true, putting 2 wheels off does make the built in TCS kick in but only on the wheels that are off track. Check your telemetry, it might be in there.

 

[Deja vu]

I don't see what the issue is, go around a turn at 130mph, get your rear wheels on the grass, your GOING to spin out. - REAL

And while on the grass, you will have trouble passing 20mph, usually in a car with a couple inches of ride height from the road. - REAL


But in all fairness, why would you ever need to travel at speeds off road (besides rallying), to me this is a sort of penalty so people can't cut corners and get away with it...

 

[Morgoth_666]

I don't see what the issue is, go around a turn at 130mph, get your rear wheels on the grass, your GOING to spin out. - REAL

And while on the grass, you will have trouble passing 20mph, usually in a car with a couple inches of ride height from the road. - REAL


But in all fairness, why would you ever need to travel at speeds off road (besides rallying), to me this is a sort of penalty so people can't cut corners and get away with it...

If you understand exactly how it will work in the specific car and corner, it may actually HELP you to cut corners and get away with it because you are given traction control once your drive wheels are in the grass.

And it's an issue because if I turn traction control off, traction control should be turned off. Not off unless I get into a situation where I might have less available grip to work with than I do the rest of the time.

 

[VBR]

There is a hidden aid when you go on the grass, & I've noticed it's much stronger since the 2.09 update. Before the last update, when I accidentally went on the grass at high speed (on The Ring for instance), I used to pump the throttle for traction. Now there's no need to do that, as the game does it for you, it's really awful. They should have it as an option, we shouldn't be forced to have it. Same goes with the hidden aid that helps you when you end up in the sand, it should be optional.

 

[NSXDriver]

i think the problem is the lack of a true sense of speed, take a look at your KPH or MPH when you hit that grass, now try it in real life, let me know how well you can control your car...

 

[Johnnypenso]

The only time your speed is limited is if your fully off track. Putting 2 wheels on the grass doesn't induce the 'off track aid' which is just there to help you get back on track after a spin.

Grip Reduction set to real affects on track grip, racing line in particular. With it set to low, all the track has the same grip level. Where if you set it to Real, the racing line has more grip than off the racing line.

Sorry bud, as it says in the game description, grip reduction only affects off track excursions and wet tracks. It has no effect on tarmac at all.

 

[TomBrady]

If you understand exactly how it will work in the specific car and corner, it may actually HELP you to cut corners and get away with it because you are given traction control once your drive wheels are in the grass.

And it's an issue because if I turn traction control off, traction control should be turned off. Not off unless I get into a situation where I might have less available grip to work with than I do the rest of the time.

Exactly. Plus, he was stupid to assume I hadn't thought of those examples. Overall, whether it's the lack of grip or the built in aid that causes it, the off track or in grass physics just aren't realistic in GT5 and it's annoying as hell frankly. Like I said, I usually play more unforgiving sims on PC, so it's even more annoying when I play GT5 which, on tarmac is a bit more forgiving but then if you touch grass, it's the complete opposite. It's just one of the many problems in GT5, and I think it's overlooked simply because people never plan on going off, but it happens.

i think the problem is the lack of a true sense of speed, take a look at your KPH or MPH when you hit that grass, now try it in real life, let me know how well you can control your car...

HAHA I did actually. Not while racing on a track, I just drove on grass in a field. I was able to go at least double the speed in a straight line and definitely faster speeds while taking turns. There's no question the speed you lose in the grass is unrealistic. If you won't drive your own car on some grass, at least try out playing a PC sim like netkar pro, iracing, LFS or rfactor. The punishment for going in the grass isn't anywhere near as severe and those are true simulators, not like GT5 where it can be a simulator, or it can be ultra casual (ex. street cars with racing soft tires, all aids on, skid recovery force, boost, no physical damage, etc.)

 

[Deja vu]

Just curious, has anyone actually tried taking a LOWERED, TUNED car on the grass and see how fast it will go IN REAL LIFE?

You can play all the so called "sims" you want but they're useless unless you actually try something in real life...

If you understand exactly how it will work in the specific car and corner, it may actually HELP you to cut corners and get away with it because you are given traction control once your drive wheels are in the grass.

And it's an issue because if I turn traction control off, traction control should be turned off. Not off unless I get into a situation where I might have less available grip to work with than I do the rest of the time.

How would it help you? Maybe if you're Jeremy Clarkson and kept your right foot planted while spinning out in the grass trying to get back on the road but once you're off, you have little to no control over your car, TCS or no TCS.

Exactly. Plus, he was stupid to assume I hadn't thought of those examples. Overall, whether it's the lack of grip or the built in aid that causes it, the off track or in grass physics just aren't realistic in GT5 and it's annoying as hell frankly. Like I said, I usually play more unforgiving sims on PC, so it's even more annoying when I play GT5 which, on tarmac is a bit more forgiving but then if you touch grass, it's the complete opposite. It's just one of the many problems in GT5, and I think it's overlooked simply because people never plan on going off, but it happens.

First, no need to call me stupid, I was simply addressing some points about realism. Second I don't see why traction on the grass is such a big deal. I plan on doing my racing on the track, not the grass so simply the fact that grass had sufficient less grip than on the tarmac is good enough for me.

HAHA I did actually. Not while racing on a track, I just drove on grass in a field. I was able to go at least double the speed in a straight line and definitely faster speeds while taking turns. There's no question the speed you lose in the grass is unrealistic. If you won't drive your own car on some grass, at least try out playing a PC sim like netkar pro, iracing, LFS or rfactor. The punishment for going in the grass isn't anywhere near as severe and those are true simulators, not like GT5 where it can be a simulator, or it can be ultra casual (ex. street cars with racing soft tires, all aids on, skid recovery force, boost, no physical damage, etc.)

So your car had slick tires with no treads, lowered, had front splitter and rear diffuser and 400+WHP?

 

[Morgoth_666]

I'm not sure what spinning out in the grass has to do with cutting corners and gaining time. If you spin in the grass it becomes very slippery and the traction control you can't disable will help you recover, but you'll have obviously lost a lot of time in the process.

If you are cutting the corner to gain time the goal is generally to not spin out, and having traction control will help you to accomplish that. It will by definition allow you to turn a little bit harder than you otherwise could as well as keep the gas down knowing that the game will limit your throttle if your wheels start to spin a little. Then you just have to not get caught out when the traction control disappears as you retake the track. I'm not sure how you could possibly consider the traction control that activates while you are in the middle of cheating and cutting a corner, making you less likely to lose control in the process, to be a penalty.

I suspect the reason they have the aid there at all is because GT has such strange performance at very low speeds even on tarmac, and coupling that with the reduced grip on grass could make things quite difficult when you do spin and stop in the grass or dirt. I can see the logic in that, especially given GT5's broad user base. But I'd still prefer it to be something I could turn off so that I can control my car myself and not have aids magically appearing and disappearing when I'm supposedly driving without them.

 

[Deja vu]

I'm not sure what spinning out in the grass has to do with cutting corners and gaining time. If you spin in the grass it becomes very slippery and the traction control you can't disable will help you recover, but you'll have obviously lost a lot of time in the process.

If you are cutting the corner to gain time the goal is generally to not spin out, and having traction control will help you to accomplish that. It will by definition allow you to turn a little bit harder than you otherwise could as well as keep the gas down knowing that the game will limit your throttle if your wheels start to spin a little. Then you just have to not get caught out when the traction control disappears as you retake the track. I'm not sure how you could possibly consider the traction control that activates while you are in the middle of cheating and cutting a corner, making you less likely to lose control in the process, to be a penalty.

I suspect the reason they have the aid there at all is because GT has such strange performance at very low speeds even on tarmac, and coupling that with the reduced grip on grass could make things quite difficult when you do spin and stop in the grass or dirt. I can see the logic in that, especially given GT5's broad user base. But I'd still prefer it to be something I could turn off so that I can control my car myself and not have aids magically appearing and disappearing when I'm supposedly driving without them.

I agree that at low speeds, physics in GT5 need to be overhauled. It's laughably inaccurate...

But as for cutting corners, when I do try to cut, and I mean a BIG cut, I usually don't touch the accelerator, just focus on cutting the turn as much as possible then getting back on the track.

As for the "penalty" that was one of the possibilities that PD had for implementing such a system, it reduces the power going to the wheels, I consider that a penalty.