Issue with physics?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Brush Guy
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Brush Guy

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Now, I'm no expert, and I don't drive, but I was thinking, in a car, the weight is not evenly distributed. For example, the left side of the car might weigh more due to the petrol tank placed slightly more to the left, changing the feel of the car. I presume in GT5 every car's weight is evenly distributed (apart from the engine placement), which means that GT5's physics are fundamentally flawed.
 
Or the highly educated engineers who designed these cars took care of those weight distribution issues long before those cars ever hit the pavement? Are you saying every car in the world is unbalanced? :dunce:

We know you're not an expert.
 
Villain
Or the highly educated engineers who designed these cars took care of those weight distribution issues long before those cars ever hit the pavement? Are you saying every car in the world is unbalanced? :dunce:
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Including the engineers who made the Citroen 2CV/Subaru 360?

And yes, that is why I said I wasn't an expert, I was seeing whether anybody could correct me.
 
I've never met them. Perhaps you can do a little research into the weight distribution of the real-life cars and then compare and contrast your findings against what GT5 has to offer.
 
I was contemplating doing so, but there isn't really any way to view the distribution of weight in GT5.
 
Brush Guy
Now, I'm no expert, and I don't drive, but I was thinking, in a car, the weight is not evenly distributed. For example, the left side of the car might weigh more due to the petrol tank placed slightly more to the left, changing the feel of the car. I presume in GT5 every car's weight is evenly distributed (apart from the engine placement), which means that GT5's physics are fundamentally flawed.
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While the GT series (and every other sim around) are far from perfect, the weight distribution of the cars modelled is quite clearly taken into account.

It can be felt both when you drive then and the changes you make to the tuning has to take it into account as well.



Scaff
 
Alright then. So that brings us to the point where you claim that the physics modeling in GT5 are "fundamentally flawed" but you bring zero evidence and have no clear plan to prove it.
 
Sorry, I should have rephrased my original post. I meant that if i was right, then GT5's physics would be fundamentally flawed.
 
He's actually right, most cars are heavier on one side. I think some people in here are confusing fore-aft and left-right weight distribution. I highly doubt PD corner-weighs actual cars, so his point is somewhat valid. Is it important? Not really.
 
GT deserves to receive a lot of complaints for some things, but the physics is pretty awesome, at least when you stay on the track and don't hit anyone.

I think they modeled weight distribution, I feel a difference in some cars.
 
oppositelock
He's actually right, most cars are heavier on one side. I think some people in here are confusing fore-aft and left-right weight distribution. I highly doubt PD corner-weighs actual cars, so his point is somewhat valid. Is it important? Not really.
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So, would you like to explain to us how they managed to model individual tire wear without taking the weight distribution into account?

Also, why is this car leaning this way?

epcp_0802_02_z+gt5_bmw_135i+front_view.jpg


No, you're right. PD didn't spend much time on the physics. :dunce:
 
Villain
So, would you like to explain to us how they managed to model individual tire wear without taking the weight distribution into account?
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Why would they need to take static right-left weight distribution into account? It would be harder to both measure and model it that way than to just assume every car is laterally 50/50.

Also, why is this car leaning this way?
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Uh, because it's turning? I don't think you understand a single word of what I'm saying.
 
Since left/right weight ratio will be pretty similar from car to car then it's not important. Not like a rear engined car which will have a very different weight distribution to a front engined car.

Perhaps a right hand drive car will be slightly different to a left hand drive car, but whats the point in modelling that if cars are sold in multiple countries.
 
I don't understand why it's THAT big of an issue. Does it really matter if PD missed a minuet thing or two? Did you catch that "flaw" the first time you played?
 
Brush Guy
Now, I'm no expert, and I don't drive,
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Right...

Brush Guy
but I was thinking, in a car, the weight is not evenly distributed. For example, the left side of the car might weigh more due to the petrol tank placed slightly more to the left, changing the feel of the car.
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...right...

Brush Guy
I presume in GT5 every car's weight is evenly distributed (apart from the engine placement),
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...right... hang on... you presume? You don't know? Right...

Brush Guy
which means that GT5's physics are fundamentally flawed.
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Huh?

Firstly I can assure you that the model of Audi which is my daily drive feels exactly the same in RHD as in LHD (I've hired them on the continent from time to time). I suspect the manufacturers take the balancing into account when designing cars.

I can also tell you that many of the physical traits that you'll find in the physics of a real-life car are present in GT5.

Is it perfect? Not on something with the miniscule processing power of a console, no.

Can you make a generalised presumption and claim GT5's flawed because of something you can't give any evidence for?

Of course not.
 
Brush Guy
I presume in GT5 every car's weight is evenly distributed (apart from the engine placement), which means that GT5's physics are fundamentally flawed.
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Every car's weight is not evenly distributed, which is one reason why some cars drift better than others. I think PD took this into account.
 
oppositelock
I don't think you understand a single word of what I'm saying.
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Please, clarify your position and the point you're trying to make. Telling me that I "don't understand" is not very productive.
 
Cos that's Pavarotti's bootylicious bom bom in the driver's seat, wearing Stig's uniform?

No, seriously, given the curvature of that curb that car could be turning to the right. And that might..... just might explain why it's leaning to the left.

The truth is out there!!!

:rolleyes:

Villain
Also, why is this car leaning this way?
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jedi09
Every car's weight is not evenly distributed, which is one reason why some cars drift better than others. I think PD took this into account.
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Again, he's talking about LATERAL weight distribution, not LONGITUDINAL.
Villain
Please, clarify your position and the point you're trying to make. Telling me that I "don't understand" is not very productive.
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Ok, I'll break it down. This is corner-weighting. It involves putting a scale under each tire of a car and measuring the amount of weight on each.

StockS2000Empty.jpg


As we can see on the left, even on a car as well balanced as a Honda S2000 you will find significant differences in the amount of weight on each tire. I think it's safe to assume that PD did not corner weigh all 1000+ cars in the game and enter that data into the physics engine. Instead they pulled a rough estimate of F/R weight distribution from the factory data (or made a scientific wild-ass guess) and assumed that the left and right balance was perfectly equal. As such, the physics will be slightly flawed. In that sense the OP is technically correct. Is it worth worrying about, or even thread worthy? No.
 
apey75
Cos that's Pavarotti's bootylicious bom bom in the driver's seat, wearing Stig's uniform?

No, seriously, given the curvature of that curb that car could be turning to the right. And that might..... just might explain why it's leaning to the left.

The truth is out there!!!

:rolleyes:
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This is correct its weight transfer for the upcoming right lol. Pretty harsh Villain..
 
Villain
Or the highly educated engineers who designed these cars took care of those weight distribution issues long before those cars ever hit the pavement? Are you saying every car in the world is unbalanced? :dunce:

We know you're not an expert.
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Actually pretty much yes, most cars when goes on a 4 point scale isn't balanced left and right, not balanced dry, not balanced with fuel in, and also not balanced even with a driver in.
 
oppositelock
StockS2000Empty.jpg
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Wow, thats pretty interesting. I realised there would be some variation left to right, but had no idea it would be so big, especially on a car like the S2000.

Makes you wonder how big it is on the average family wagon. :crazy:
 
@oppositelock: Okay, so basically what you're saying (and proving) is that generally, cars are not balanced perfectly 25% to each wheel. You've got me right with you 100%. What I want to know is how this relates to the physics in GT5 being "fundamentally flawed" and how this affects our driving experience in-game.

I really don't think any of this matters, and I also think that these 1/16 and 3/8 inch(?) adjustments to the ride height of each of the wheels would go over the heads of 90% of the people who play GT5, especially considering that the existing tuning options probably go over most of ours heads as it is.
 
It doesn't really matter. I said that much already. That doesn't change the fact that the OP was technically correct and you jumped all over him with a smarmy little :dunce: at the end. After all, your counter was that factory engineers know what they're doing, not that it was irrelevant to the in-game driving experience.
 
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