It's time Polyphony finally address the crappy clutch-HShifter implementation.

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by barkohba, Jun 3, 2018.

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Should GTS repair their faulty H-Shifter implementation to something in line with other sim games?

  1. Yes, it's about time, PD!

    87.9%
  2. No, I like missing gears all the time. It's fun.

    12.1%
  1. barkohba

    barkohba

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    Anyone who has a H-Shifter setup knows what I'm talking about. It's the same across probably all wheels. Missed a ton of gears (especially when down-shifting with heel and toe) on both G29 and T-GT (with their respective official Logitech/Thrustmaster t-shifters).

    For me, this is quite a big issue, because, besides the money invested in the shifter, I really like using it on cars that have H-Shifters in real-life, and with the latest update adding the Group C cars (which in itself is another issue, as through some genius decision, they were added to Gr 1), I can't properly enjoy them in an authentic way due to the horrid h-shifter implementation.

    Is there any way we can properly make this issue more visible and bring to PD's attention? Maybe make a poll/petition, etc?
     
    Vigne, zaxs, bigluke791 and 15 others like this.
  2. Brzlav

    Brzlav

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    I think Gran Turismo always had this problem. It might be a conscious decision by PD to leave proper clutch implementation out as only a very small part of the consumer base finds it important. And this small number of people will, if they even use a console for sim racing, more likely play Assetto Corsa.

    I also think that if they set up a daily race with mandatory use of clutch and no driving aids, the number of people playing it would be too low, thereby counteracting the whole point of daily races which is having a full "lobby" of people with a similar skill to yours every 20min.
    Same would apply for me as I am quite simply not good enough to drive a Gr. C monster that way competitively.
     
  3. VBR

    VBR Premium

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    The shifting used to work well in the day one edition of GT5 Prologue. Then, after complaints that h pattern drivers had an unfair advantage, the clutch model was nerfed. That's what I remember happening back in the day, & it seems the very same neutered clutch model has been copied & pasted into every game since. There have been a ton of threads like this over the last decade, & PD don't care at all about it as they've never acknowledged the issue let alone tried to fix it. If you want proper shifter implementation, the only way to currently get it on PS4 is to go buy Assetto Corsa!
     
  4. Alpha Cipher

    Alpha Cipher

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    what the actual heck? Damn, if PD were to listen to such people, they might as well ban wheels altogether damnit!
     
    SeeNoWeevil likes this.
  5. Slapped

    Slapped Premium

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    How on earth could could clutch and H pattern drivers have an advantage over flappy paddle sequential shifters?

    In fact it should be the opposite way around :confused:
     
    epic_apri_39 and VBR like this.
  6. Macboyilija

    Macboyilija

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    No. If you drive a car with shifter, then its not logical you use paddles. You should always use a clutch and a shifter. But not all people have a wheel and clutch and shifter. So based on that it is fair to have a small advantage for people actually using the most realistic way of driving that specific car. Since not everybody is capable or wanting to buy that gear. This seems pretty logical to me.

    What you say is of course right in real life: if you have two of the same cars with a stick vs paddles, the paddles would always be faster. But it is about giving advantage to people using the things as intended, or a little disadvantage to people who “fool” the car. Nothing wrong with stimulating realism a bit.


    Why didn’t you just add a poll to your topic ?
     
  7. VBR

    VBR Premium

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    I think it was something that clutch users were doing at the start of the race that gave them the advantage off the line. I can't remember the exact method used, as I didn't have a wheel with clutch & shifter at the time. This was over 10 years ago, so not many people would remember exactly. If someone does please chime in.


    EDIT: Just done some researching in the GT5 Prologue forum & found these two threads that may shed some light on the issue. It seems that when clutch users were allowed to power shift, it gave them an unfair advantage & PD's response was to nerf it. There is also another thread about people exploiting the clutch with another type of cheat.

    https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/did-pd-go-too-far-with-the-g25-power-shift-nerf.115757/

    https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/clutch-cheaters.117596/
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2018
  8. cjr3559

    cjr3559 Premium

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    The clutch model will never change.

    Crying shame, too.

    I simply don’t bother trying to be competitive with H-pattern shifting cars in GT games because it’s a lost cause. And a lost art for that matter.

    Just stick to other games that have decided to make pattern shifting a priority where it matters.

    No point in wasting time and energy otherwise.
     
    VBR likes this.
  9. epic_apri_39

    epic_apri_39

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    Yeah, not a fan of the clutch in GT. What's even worse is that the auto-clutch is nigh-useless as handbrake turns are near impossible because of it, as well as the lack of ability to slip the clutch when it's on.
     
    Alpha Cipher likes this.
  10. poumpoum

    poumpoum

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    I always use my H shifter on Daily races with road cars. I was able to configure my clutch pedal in order to work on the first millimeter only (CSP V3 with CSL Elite PS4), this way I miss less shifts but it's still far from perfect.
     
    Macboyilija and DesertPenguin like this.
  11. DesertPenguin

    DesertPenguin Premium

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    I let off the gas and shift without pressing the clutch pedal. I still have the rev change dynamic and my hand off the wheel to change gear, but no worry about the clutch ruining everything and going into neutral. I know it's awful and very unrealistic but it's better than using the flappy paddles. I still right foot break because my left foot would be on the clutch pedal.
     
  12. Tou2istTrophy

    Tou2istTrophy

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    [​IMG]
     
    Sander 001 likes this.
  13. Clean Racer

    Clean Racer

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    Can someone help Me?

    I have the Thrustmaster T300 RS and the TH8A but for some reason the H pattern shifter does not work at all. GT Sport doesn't seem to recognize it. I have it connected to the wheel and my wheel is in PS3 mode. I have tried connecting the shifter directly to the console as well but that does not work either.

    Any assistance is greatly appreciated.
     
  14. Sander 001

    Sander 001

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    Maybe try PS4 mode
     
    epic_apri_39 likes this.
  15. eran0004

    eran0004

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    Fairness and realism are not related.
     
  16. barkohba

    barkohba

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    This sounds rather like PD completely forgot about this "nerfing" (they rather broke it/bugged it as this is how it feels) and left the code as is. I see no reason why in an era where other sim racers (pc2, ac) have proper h-shifter implementation, PD won't, besides simply forgetting about modifying it.

    This, of course, raises another question: Is PD testing their games properly? Did no one in the entire development and game-testing phases try out manual shifting? The broken mechanic would have become obvious within a minute. Shame.

    Hmm, does not make sense, one is realism and fairness, another thing is advantage. Try any sim game, with manual shifting cars - using the paddle shifters is simply (and logically) ALWAYS faster, regardless of the lack of realism. You can check out VBR's post, the reason for this stupid nerfing (complete bugging if you ask me) of the clutch-hshifter model is because in GT5 P (9 years ago!!!) people were exploiting some kind of clutch cheat. And PD completely forgot about changing that nerfing back ever since.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 4, 2018
  17. barkohba

    barkohba

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    This is addressed to people who own and enjoy using an H-Shifter in sim games (in general), and are not happy with the way PD has implemented it in their games.

    Further info: Apparently the model was working really well in GT 5 Prologue (yes, that game that came out 9 years ago or so), but because at that time people could use some kind of clutch exploit and cheat, they nerfed it to that horrible gear-missing implementation we have today, and haven't changed it since.

    Source: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/did-pd-go-too-far-with-the-g25-power-shift-nerf.115757/
     
    zaxs likes this.
  18. CJ1045

    CJ1045

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    You need to post a more complete poll as I would expect 'Don't care, just work on more tracks' would win by a mile.

    CJ
     
  19. daan

    daan Moderator

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    Threads merged.
     
    VBR likes this.
  20. barkohba

    barkohba

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    Much Appreciated!

    That's a completely different topic. Start a poll on that, I'll definitely vote.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 4, 2018
  21. mika haka

    mika haka

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    392
    Ruined the series for me this. Every other game I played worked well and although I was slower I just enjoyed the driving experience using the clutch.

    The constant mis shifts just became too frustrating.
     
    VBR likes this.
  22. SeeNoWeevil

    SeeNoWeevil

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    This is so frustrating as I'm convinced they improved it last release but reverted the change again for the latest release!! I'm sure it wasn't possible to end up with the car in neutral and the physical shifter in gear in the prior release - now it is again.
     
  23. Macboyilija

    Macboyilija

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    I liked it that PD made shifting manually slightly faster for a car which in game has a manual instead of the paddles. So if you use the paddles to change gears, than it will be a little slower than if you use the clutch and the manual shifter. This has been discussed in a couple of threads.

    First of all, I can understand the intention that you create no benefits for people using certain gear. But still it is inherent in a gaming environment. Like the discussion that with a controller and CSA you will be much faster than when you (first) touch a wheel.

    Since some N-class cars do not have paddles, to me it seemed fair giving a slight advantage to people who use the clutch and shifter compared to people who dont use this gear.

    I noticed today that PD has changed this advantage. Now using the paddles in every car is as fast as using the shifter. So also for the cars that have a manual in real life.

    Probably a lot of people are happy with this change. I am not. Still I was curious if many people have noticed this undocumented change ? It was changed in the last update probably ? Any one info about this ?
     
    Pfei likes this.