Japanese Cars: More Powerful than Restricted?

[JohnBM01]

This time, let me look on Japanese cars and the restrictions thereof. As I have done threads on cars, I've heard of how much more powerful the NSX, Supra, and Skyline are unrestricted. So educate me on how much more powerful these cars can be compared to their restricted selves.

As a bit of an off-topic question, how much more powerful would JGTC cars be if they weren't as restricted? Remember, this is a "Cars in General" deal, even though I'm mentioning the JGTC.

 

[JohnBM01]

Anyone want to take a stab at this? I recall that the Skyline is probably at 329 unrestricted.

 

[Dorifto]

I've heard the skyline was around 400 unrestricted.

 

[ShobThaBob]

WTF is unrestricted? If by unrestricted you mean modded, then any car can be well over 1000 hp.

 

[Famine]

No - the Skyline ships with a variety of restrictors on it. They can be removed by the user in 20 minutes.

Remove factory restrictions and applying aftermarket modifications are two different things.

 

[rollazn]

well stock for stock, even with the restrictions on they still dyno more than 280ps/276hp. The skyline and supra both dyno at around 320+/- . I know with the skyline, that if you take off the restriction and add a pc chip, it will be close to the 400hp area.

Well the restriction is gone now. The new GT-R will be the first to offically break it ( said Carlo Ghosan or whatever his name is, he is the president of Nissan). Papare for Japanese import to get power, the new GT-R claims to have at least 400hp and will be running with Porsche 911 Turbo. We wont know until the GT-R is release as for now its all rumors.

 

[Dave A]

So we won't know until 2007.

 

[SPD_RCR]

take the evo 7 unrestricted its around 300 but here in the us restricted to about 125 at first then it went up to about 250 with at rally version

 

[SPD_RCR]

Originally posted by ShobThaBob
WTF is unrestricted? If by unrestricted you mean modded, then any car can be well over 1000 hp.

restricted mean the car is tuned down in hp for the us which SUCKS

 

[Goomba]

Originally posted by SPD_RCR
take the evo 7 unrestricted its around 300 but here in the us restricted to about 125 at first then it went up to about 250 with at rally version

There was no Evolution VII here. We had the base model Lancer (~125hp at the flywheel) and the RalliSport (unknown hp). There were no restirctions, they just had a small engine without a turbo, along with the RalliSport. We just now have the Evolution VIII, which is rated at ~271hp and dynos at ~230hp (I think). I don't know if the car has any restrictors like the GTR has.

 

[Driftster]

Actually the Evo VII would be in the neighborhood of 350HP, because the Evo VI was rated at about 320, and the VII is a heavier car and is quicker....so..there ya have it......what does the GTO make without restrictions?


--edit---

keep in mind i'm not speaking of the EU edition lancers because I know they havn't been the "strongest" so to speak.

 

[rollazn]

Originally posted by Driftster
Actually the Evo VII would be in the neighborhood of 350HP, because the Evo VI was rated at about 320, and the VII is a heavier car and is quicker....so..there ya have it......what does the GTO make without restrictions?


--edit---

keep in mind i'm not speaking of the EU edition lancers because I know they havn't been the "strongest" so to speak.

Actually, I really doubt that the Evo VII produced around 350hp, from infomation that I have read its more in the neighborhood of 310-320hp. Evo VI wasnt rated at 320, because in Japan they could only rate it at 280ps or 276hp. The only Japanese car that dynoed around 350 is the Impreza STi 22B. They have actually dyno proof but it was still rated at 280ps/276hp. Just like the Skyline that dynoed 328hp but it once again is rated 280ps.
The Subaru has 350hp and 302 ft lb of torque. Its lighter than the current STi we have but just like with the Evo VI and Evo VII, the current STi and Evolutions has major upgrade, including suspention,brakes, ABS, etc...

Also what is this "EU" edition of the lancer that your talking about? There is another model of the Evolution that put down around 350 which is the Zero fighter or whatever it was.

 

[Driftster]

Originally posted by rollazn
Actually, I really doubt that the Evo VII produced around 350hp, from infomation that I have read its more in the neighborhood of 310-320hp. Evo VI wasnt rated at 320, because in Japan they could only rate it at 280ps or 276hp. The only Japanese car that dynoed around 350 is the Impreza STi 22B. They have actually dyno proof but it was still rated at 280ps/276hp. Just like the Skyline that dynoed 328hp but it once again is rated 280ps.
The Subaru has 350hp and 302 ft lb of torque. Its lighter than the current STi we have but just like with the Evo VI and Evo VII, the current STi and Evolutions has major upgrade, including suspention,brakes, ABS, etc...

Also what is this "EU" edition of the lancer that your talking about? There is another model of the Evolution that put down around 350 which is the Zero fighter or whatever it was.

ok for one the Evo did put out that much HP because explain how BestMOTORing could have an Evo VI keep up with a R34 GTR? the cars finess surely doesn't equate to it keeping up and neither does it's stock HP #'s...And by Rated I don't mean factory rating from mitsu I mean the avg results of dynamometer numbers and drivetrain loss.....
And by EU i mean European not some special edition Lancer....

and in terms of "The current STi and Evolutions has major upgrades".....The Evo VIII is a complete copy of the evo VII with a new look and more weight...simple as that...same brakes, same rotors, same suspension, same springs, same calipers, same tires, same headroom, same leg room, same trunk space

 

[rollazn]

Originally posted by Driftster
ok for one the Evo did put out that much HP because explain how BestMOTORing could have an Evo VI keep up with a R34 GTR? the cars finess surely doesn't equate to it keeping up and neither does it's stock HP #'s...And by Rated I don't mean factory rating from mitsu I mean the avg results of dynamometer numbers and drivetrain loss.....
And by EU i mean European not some special edition Lancer....

and in terms of "The current STi and Evolutions has major upgrades".....The Evo VIII is a complete copy of the evo VII with a new look and more weight...simple as that...same brakes, same rotors, same suspension, same springs, same calipers, same tires, same headroom, same leg room, same trunk space

Just because the Evo VI kept up with the GT-R your going to automatically assume that it had around 350hp?! For one, the GT-R itself dosent have 350hp when dynoed. Evo VI has always been amazingly fast around the Tsukuba circuit. I know for a fact that if you take a Evo VI and dyno it, It wont be around 350hp. 310-328 would be the best estimate. The Evo VI is also lighter than the R34, it also has some advantage the GT-R dosent have. The Evolution is known for great cornering speed and great breaking.

An S2000 (240hp) can keep up with a 350Z (287hp) because of its lighter weight which matter alot in a race. Although the Evo VI dosent weight that much less than the GT-R, its power is about the same of a GT-R as well. If you watch Best MOTORing alot, you can tell all of the major Japanese sportcar all run around 1.04.xxx around the Tsukuba circuit. I believe the newest STi Spec C just beat out the Evolution VI. NSX-R was clocked at 1:03.xxx. Fastest as of right now.

To me, the power difference between STi, Evo, and GT-R is only minor. A few hp give or take. I would like to see a dyno result of an stock Evo VI producing around 350hp.

Actually I was comparing the current Evo to the Evolution VI not the VII.

 

[JohnBM01]

So something I'd want to add is, what about some of the Kei cars of Japan? The small car HP limit is about 64hp, so when dynoed out, can they keep up with an American Civic or maybe the newer Mini Cooper? I'd hate (love) to imagine how much those tuned Tommy kairas would do. Their ZZ car is like a Japanese Lotus Elise.

I came up with this topic out of special interest about Japanese cars. I actually tend to think they are more powerful than they are sold due to restrictions in Japan. I've always thought the Skyline was a powerful beast, even though it was restricted to 276. No wonder, then, is it one of the most popular cars in Japan. One you can quickly notice in a game or on a magazine cover or a video game.

So let me add another facet to this diamond of a topic. How would JGTC race cars do unrestricted (remember, I'm talking about race cars, but not racing in general)?

 

[skylineGTR_guy]

here:

1. The factory fuel and ignition maps are extremely conservative. The ignition timing factory is set around 15deg advanced. As the car begins to make boost it retards it sharply. This is done so that people (not too smart ones) can run lower octane fuels and not get detination. The fuel maps are set simuarly except when boost comes on the injector duty cycle has a limit of 85%.

2. Factory raising fuel pressure regulator. It has a very low pressure. Why I have no idea. The max pressure is 30psi.

3. Boost restrictor plug and solinoid. This one has me confused. Nissan decided one way to keep the power down was to restrict the boost with not only an electronic solinoid but also a small brass plug with a very small hole. The solinoid bleeds boost off much like any other boost controller but then they put a plug in the exit line to restrict the amount of bleed. It has a very small appeture about 2mm. Boost is about 7 psi factory.

While these 4 things do not seem like much here is what the gains are by modifying only these componants. I will use my car as an example

1. Nismo or any aftermarket raising rate fuel pressure regulator. Set to 3 bar (43psi) at idel and rasing to 5 bar (72psi) high boost. This increases the factory very small 444cc injectors out put to approx 500cc equivelent. This is needed to effectively wind the boost up.

2. Remove the boost restrictor plug. Only doing that the boost went to just under 1bar (14.6psi) to 13.75. Power at the wheels went from 164kw (219hp) to 184.5kw (247hp). That was the same dyno on the same day.

3. ECU work. My tuner then re-mapped my factory ecu's fuel and ignition load points and curves. At .95 bar or (13.75 psi) my power output went up to 225kw (302 hp) at the wheels.

4. I replaced the factory boost control soliniod with a Greedy Profec B and increased the boost to 1.05 bar (15.2 psi). Power increased to 247kw (331hp) at the wheels.

As you can see by altering the factory settings there was a substantial increase in power.

 

[skylineGTR_guy]

My favorite skyline the Nur spec also has "280 HP" but unrestricted, the N1 engine will push 450 hp easily

 

[skylineGTR_guy]

For those you who don't know:

The R32 sedan was undefeated for 3 straight years in group N (sedan racing). No other car has come close to that record.

It got kicked out of group A racing becasue other manufacturers complained that it was "unbeatable"

 

[skylineGTR_guy]

from www.GTR.co.uk

Looking at the R43 26DETT engine, Nissan's own power graph (in blue) shows torque peaking at 40.0 kgm @ 4,400rpm while delivering 245 PS.
At the peak power of 280 PS, the graph shows 29.5 kgm torque at @ 6,800 rpm.
Now, as PS = torque x rpm / 716, the official power and torque numbers all square up.

But we know this isn't correct, because of a Japanese industry understanding, so I put my standard R34 on Power Engineering's 4WD dyno, which showed peak power (in red) of 328 PS at 6,420 rpm! and peak torque (in yellow) of 39 kgm.
Notice how flat the torque curve is from 3,500 to 5,500 rpm. This all fits the rumours we've heard about peak power.

 

[rollazn]

^ So true, I have seen that dyno chart many times.

 

[JohnBM01]

I think Japan's restrictions on air, or something like that,is the reason why no cars exceed 276 in terms of street cars. Only exceptions would be one-off race cars. But, who would have one of those as a DAILY DRIVER? I think these cars are still powerful no matter what restictions daresay. I also think JGTC race cars may be downtuned in terms of horsepower, but are still pretty powerful. Can you imagine a Supra V8 that packs 650hp (I'm making this up, don't assume this)?

This is off-topic, but could this explain why horsepower numbers are greater in Gran Turismo 2 when you buy a car? Getting rid of restrictions?