Just how random is the Course Maker?

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Floor3013

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floor-3013
I was trying to find the highest height variation per mile on a circuit on Mt. Aso and noticed something interesting. While looking for the best 'base' circuit to work from, I came across that there is a maximum of 100 base circuits, and I came across one that was basically the same as another track I had made (Same layout, position). So are these just premade layouts that can just be adjusted? (I haven't looked at these in depth)
 
I noticed something funny about the course maker as well. It appeared that if you set the parameters the same as another course, you will get the same track. I haven't tried the same parameters on different course type though.
 
I have yet to fully confirm, but it doesn't appear to be as random as we may have thought. Each "Next" presents a different topographical map that I believe is dependent upon the number of sections selected. I eventually came to a point where there were no more "Next" selections available - I counted 99 "Next" selections before running out which means 100 topographical maps.

If you edit a saved course, I think it puts that course at the front of the queue. Not sure if it shuffles the rest of the order or keeps them in sequence.

However, I've been thinking that if you record the base track location (Eifel), number of sections (3 sections), technicality of each section (8/8/8), width of each section (4/4/4), and finally the tightness of turns of each section (-5/0/-5); you should be able to re-enter the parameters and then by cycling through the Next button, eventually come across the previous creation.

those are my parameters for a course I created called Chute d'Eifel (not exactly sure about the corner tightness parameters, will confirm later when I get home). It is a 3.88 mi, 450 ft elevation course which has a nice flow of esses up to the top height at the end of the 2nd section with a drop that is reminiscent of the corkscrew or from the Suzuki bridge at Road Atlanta. That's all followed up with some nice high speed off-camber corners on the way back down to the start-finish.

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Turns 2, 3, 4 and 5; Start of the climb

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Turns 7, 8 and 9; Still climbing

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Turns 10 and 11; Almost to the top

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Turn 12, the Chute

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Turns 13, 14 and 15; Looking back at the Chute

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After a small rise, down into turns 16 and 17

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The final sweep of turns, 19, 20, 21 and 22, before the start-finish straight



I need to do a more formal investigation to be sure, but if someone else wants to try and verify, feedback would be appreciated.
 
suprtrukr425
I noticed something funny about the course maker as well. It appeared that if you set the parameters the same as another course, you will get the same track. I haven't tried the same parameters on different course type though.
Click to expand...

I've entered the same parameters for one of my tracks and it came up with a completely different course...
 
But with those parameters, eventually you should come across the same topographical map. Don't expect the course to match up on the first map.
 
Well, it's a shame... theory doesn't work. I input the parameters and cycled through the maps without any luck. Exited out and tried again... no luck. Went through about 600 configurations and still not quite a match.
However... I generated Eifel GP off of a Save As from Chute d'Eifel and was able to regenerate the Chute off of the GP save by reverting the parameters.

So the real positive... we will never run out of courses :lol:

I just hope they come up with a way to back them up, else you have to rely on someone else to maintain a backup for you in case anything happens to your ps3.
 
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I honestly think the layout only has the hundred or so options and the topo has 100 or so displays. However, when you go in to the track I think the final topography of the track has some degree of randomness to it. So the actual amount of differences in the tracked is truly huge and we will most likely never run out of new tracks....
 
I never bothered to count that there are 100 base plates. But thats cool. Now the thing to do is someone chart and label the baseplates. I'll have to test this, but hopefully, when you go into a fresh startup of Course Maker, the first base plate they give you is always the same, and the second one after you click next is always the same, and so on. This way, we can chart and label base plates, and be able to recommend to other drivers, "Hey, base plate #77 is really good for creating corkscrews on this particular hill of the plate." So, after a while, we create a database of base plates, and we know exactly how to get to that plate to begin with, then add Legos ERRRR track parameters onto it after that. When you know where the good hills are on specific parts of the base plate, you have more design control over what you are looking to create, instead of feeling like you are pulling a slot machine lever. If I had a good camera, to take screen shots with, Id start charting the base plates myself, and we could all use them as whiteboards to draw on. Then when you know where the good hills are, you make sure as your punching in track parameters that your track is going over that location in a way you want it to. Even if the 100 plates arent always given in the exact same order, we can still map them and chart them, but you'll just have to bust out your CSI skills to make sure the track fingerprint on the base plate you want is the same one the game just gave you on screen.
 
Jegato
But with those parameters, eventually you should come across the same topographical map. Don't expect the course to match up on the first map.
Click to expand...

Well, it's a shame... theory doesn't work. I input the parameters and cycled through the maps without any luck. Exited out and tried again... no luck. Went through about 600 configurations and still not quite a match.
Click to expand...
There is no particular base map and the track generating algorithm appears to have a slightly different variables each time you enter the editor. In other words, I could regenerate one track from another when the 2nd was a Save As from the 1st. But I could not generate a copy of the 1st out of a new editting session.
 
Jegato
I need to do a more formal investigation to be sure, but if someone else wants to try and verify, feedback would be appreciated.
Click to expand...

I haven't managed to re-create that, which is a shame because it looks like an enjoyable little track :)
 
I couldn't recreate Chute D'Eifel myself unless it was from a 2nd track that was a Save As from it. So I don't think you will be able to re-create it from the parameters I gave.
I may put it back online this next week though.
 
I was cycling through all the available layouts on the most complex seven section layout road circuit. The greatest elevation change was 530.6 feet and the most corners I could have was 44 (though the two seemed mutually exclusive). There was only one course with 44 corners. I think maybe there were a couple close to the maximum elevation.

I have shared my 44 corner 6 mile plus course if anyone wants to add me as a Friend.
 
OK RogsR34UK, I'll put you on my friends list.
Personnally, I managed to create a track on Toscana with 52 corners.

Have a look at my Pescara-like track (34 corners)
 
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Meanwhile I have tested RogsR34UK 44 corners track.

It is a tremendous track! I even like it more than the Nordschleife. It's the same philosophy in a modern racetrack-environment. I have put it in my favorites.

I really like the three downhill lefthanders. This is a track were the driver makes the difference.

While testing it, I realized that the MX-5 /Miata is a marvelous small drifting car.



Reference time in a stock RX-7 RZ (FD) '00 (292 HP - hard tires): 4:28.185
 
Here's a random thought.

How rare are circuits that have a left turn onto the front straightaway? I've only seen a few...
 
R1600Turbo
Here's a random thought.

How rare are circuits that have a left turn onto the front straightaway? I've only seen a few...
Click to expand...

Left turn onto the front straightaway mostly means the track is anticlockwise.

As far as I know, all Eifel-tracks are clockwise (except for the Karting) and all Mount Aso tracks too.

I only obtained anti-clockwise tracks in the Toscana environment and in the two karting environments (did'nt try to create dirt or ice-tracks)
 
Basically, there's about a 100 different track layouts for each theme, and each number of sectors.
Per each theme, there a few 'pre-made' start/finish straights. Then the game randomly assigns the track to one of the few start/finish straights.
The track length is random, so if a track is even 5 meters longer, the elevation change will be different and the track would seem different.
 
turbogeit
Left turn onto the front straightaway mostly means the track is anticlockwise.

As far as I know, all Eifel-tracks are clockwise (except for the Karting) and all Mount Aso tracks too.
Click to expand...

It's a Eifel track. Goes clockwise. Left hand turn onto the front straightaway.
 
I haven't messed with track maker much. Would it be possible to build the Mid-Ohio course. It is clockwise track but ends with a left hander (coming out of the carousel) onto the front straight. I'm guessing the section called Chaos ( quick right-up hill- left down hill in about a 1/4 mile, would be tough to replicate.
 
The 'number of sections' is a confusing thing as it has nothing to do with the complexity or length of the track. I thought at first that the more sections the longer and more complex you could make a track, but the latter is the other way around.

By setting the number of section to 2 and turning the complexity of both section 1 and 2 up to 10, within 30 seconds I had a track with 61 corners on Eifel.

I actually think tracks can get more complex if they have less sections. If you have 7 sections, a lot of times, the complexity setting of one or more of the sections just doesn't seem to work as the section is too short to actually be complex.


edit 1: 3 tracks later I have one with 68 corners.

edit 2: 69 now :D Funny thing, the lowest number of corners I got with the same setting is 13!

edit 3: So far I haven't been able to get more than 62 corners with 3 sections

edit 4: There seems to be a random factor to it as the last time I cycled I didn't get any track with 69 corners. The previous two times I did.
1 try later I have a track with 70 corners! (2 sections)
 
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sj6071
I haven't messed with track maker much. Would it be possible to build the Mid-Ohio course. It is clockwise track but ends with a left hander (coming out of the carousel) onto the front straight. I'm guessing the section called Chaos ( quick right-up hill- left down hill in about a 1/4 mile, would be tough to replicate.
Click to expand...

Impossible, actually.
 
Jegato
It is a 3.88 mi, 450 ft elevation course which has a nice flow of esses up to the top height at the end of the 2nd section with a drop that is reminiscent of the corkscrew or from the Suzuki bridge at Road Atlanta. That's all followed up with some nice high speed off-camber corners on the way back down to the start-finish.

5253426294_ea8642e450.jpg

Turns 13, 14 and 15; Looking back at the Chute
Click to expand...

You're so right about the Road Atlanta 👍

esses_large.jpg
 

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