Just Me, Or Did They Remove the Improved AI Patch?

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Bye Ya

Bye Ya

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Bye_Ya
I haven't played this game in a long time, but the last time I was playing they had put out an update which made the AI "better". Basically the AI "drivers" would have some level of awareness about when you were overtaking and either brake or move over a bit to let you by. Now they seem to be back to just running 100% programmed lines, driving into you for no apparent reason again, etc. Anyone else notice this?
 
I guess I just forgot how much this is not a racing game. After playing F1 2010 for so long this is quite a change.


thx
 
maxpontiac
You enjoy the F1 games. I get it.
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I enjoy racing games. I happen to be into F1. 👍



I also happen to love racing GT5 online with people who set up events, such as Super GT racing, or Le Mans, FGT, even NASCAR, etc.

That is racing as well.


GT5 single player is a shadow of real racing, really only useful for buying more cars. Or if you like travelling slalom events with the AI, starting a "race" from 12th position and weaving your way through stagnant obstacle cars, then I guess it's also useful for that level of enjoyment. To each his own, but to say that it is like racing is not accurate. They don't even have quali laps, necessary pit stops, or even the option to race more than 5 laps in most "events".

5 laps? Really.


It's not a racing game, and it's not meant to be. Sorry if me saying that offends you somehow.
 
Bye Ya
I enjoy racing games. I happen to be into F1. 👍



I also happen to love racing GT5 online with people who set up events, such as Super GT racing, or Le Mans, FGT, even NASCAR, etc.

That is racing as well.


GT5 single player is a shadow of real racing, really only useful for buying more cars. Or if you like travelling slalom events with the AI, starting a "race" from 12th position and weaving your way through stagnant obstacle cars, then I guess it's also useful for that level of enjoyment. To each his own, but to say that it is like racing is not accurate. They don't even have quali laps, necessary pit stops, or even the option to race more than 5 laps in most "events".

5 laps? Really.


It's not a racing game, and it's not meant to be. Sorry if me saying that offends you somehow.
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Agree 100%

GT5 has a great foundation but there is little to no real RACING present in the game. Its just a bunch of short random events that resembles nothing of a reallife racing event. Most of which can be easily won since you can compete with a car far superior to the other drivers.
Its just a bunch of challenges.
 
Bye Ya
I also happen to love racing GT5 online with people who set up events, such as Super GT racing, or Le Mans, FGT, even NASCAR, etc.

That is racing as well.


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There you go.

And I'm sure you run similar tuned cars in single player. And I'm sure everyone is as good as you in racing, so the game doesn't match up to your abilities right?

Regardless, I play online the majority of time... Just like in all games of the times(shootin,racing,etc) the AI never matches human qualities.

And it is called "The real driving simulator" so your statement of racing is arbitrary.
 
On the subject of the AI:

They do still avoid you, but they will still just plow into you as though you are not there at all too. It's all a matter of where you are in relation to the corners when you start to pull up next to them.

Generally speaking, they slow down if you pull along side while they are turning(even a little), but not if they are going straight. And if they pull up along side you after you make a mistake, they often won't attempt to avoid you. Once in a while, they do stay along side without ignoring you, but I don't know what triggers that.

Personally, I'd prefer them just plowing into me rather than slowing down, if I had to choose one or the other. It's annoying but at least you feel like you're competing with them then.
 
I'm not sure if improved but, a bastard in a mazarati was blocking me from passing him for a good half mile earlier
 
Sounds like some of you guys need to challenge yourself a little more. Instead of driving over tuned cars bring down the hp and start using tires with less grip
 
tazj_7
Sounds like some of you guys need to challenge yourself a little more. Instead of driving over tuned cars bring down the hp and start using tires with less grip
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This.

And GT5 is still a racing game at the end of the day.

As FIFA and NBA 2K11 are sports games, and Obama is President of the United States, and Earth is a planet.

We're not offended, no far from it. It's just that whenever someone says GT5 isn't a racing game, yet the most efficient way of getting money to do anything is...well...race, we kinda have to bring that to dispute.

If you want pit stops weather and what not, the Endurance section has all of that.
 
tazj_7
Sounds like some of you guys need to challenge yourself a little more. Instead of driving over tuned cars bring down the hp and start using tires with less grip
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Doesn't help as much as you'd think since the moment you get close to the AI they will slow down and let you through even if they're faster.
 
^We're talking severe restrictions.

Ex: The Pescarolo Hybrid in the Le Mans enduro is pushing 905 HP (the stock power).

Cut that down to 650-700 HP and then you got an interesting race. I sometimes cut my hybrid to 550-600 HP to make things fun.
 
Cosbuster
Doesn't help as much as you'd think since the moment you get close to the AI they will slow down and let you through even if they're faster.
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That's true and it does disappoint me when they slow down, but it make's the AI harder to catch up to, and for me that alone make's the race a little more interesting
 
Odd. I think the AI has got more aggressive since the maintenance. I don't think there was any update at our end... but at their end I think they've made a couple of changes. The Real Circuits seasonal... give it a try and see what you think.
 
sumbrownkid
^We're talking severe restrictions.

Ex: The Pescarolo Hybrid in the Le Mans enduro is pushing 905 HP (the stock power).

Cut that down to 650-700 HP and then you got an interesting race. I sometimes cut my hybrid to 550-600 HP to make things fun.
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That is NOT racing though, even still. And I don't buy your argument. Sarah Palin and Obama are both political figures, but only one is really the President. GT5 is a political figure in the racing world, but not the real thing, not a member of the House or Senate, etc.

Again, racing is NOT starting from 12th position and driving through 11 other cars that are following programmed lines like obedient zombies, while you slalom your way up to first. The fact that you might choose to inhibit your car in doing so adds nothing to correct the racing deficiency. It's a driving challenge, not a racing challenge.

The AI cars in GT5 are not trying to win. Racers compete against each other intelligently. And while any AI experience is going to fall short of the real thing, GT5 is not even remotely an effort at replicating the racing experience, which is why it is not a racing game.

Driving game/racing game - two different things, but still both part of the driving simulation genre.


MoGoSpeed
There you go.

And I'm sure you run similar tuned cars in single player.

And I'm sure everyone is as good as you in racing, so the game doesn't match up to your abilities right?
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Similar tuned cars does not make the GT5 "12th to 1st" experience any more of a racing event, as I just pointed out. The other two questions don't address what I've been talking about. But no, there are people better and worse than me when I'm racing humans online, if that's what you mean. And the game doesn't have to match my abilities to be a racing game, it has to meet racing criteria to be a racing game. It's not about the difficulty, it's about the structuring of the events and the fact that there is no racing interaction that actually occurs.


sumbrownkid
We're not offended, no far from it. It's just that whenever someone says GT5 isn't a racing game, yet the most efficient way of getting money to do anything is...well...race, we kinda have to bring that to dispute.
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"We're?" I'm not against everyone here, nor was that comment addressing the whole forum. I responded to one person, actually. And the events you earn money from do not involve racing/competing against other drivers. If you think the AI is racing against you then I suggest you watch ANY race in reality and see if ANY driver just putters along at a gradual/programmed rate of consistent acceleration/decelleration/driving line whilst ignoring their surroundings/other drivers for the duration of the event. Like I said, AI is never going to be able to replicate a racing experience 100%, and that's not even what I'm saying. What I AM saying is that GT5 wasn't even structured to be that way. It's a driving game by design, not a racing game. (Although you can race people online). The level of programming put into the AI cars is nothing more than minimum. The focus is on graphics, car variety and detail, and DRIVING experience/physics. There is only a minimal effort given toward racing competition/simulation in the design of the game. That is a fact, not my opinion.


I don't know how I can be any more clear about this. Apparently you ARE taking offense, and so I again apologize that simply pointing out that GT5 is not a racing game, nor is it intended to be, is an offensive statement to whoever may hear it and take it that way. I do like the game for what it is, there are a lot of great things about it, but racing is not one of them. And the sad fact is that the AI involved in the "events" portion of this game is at the level of 16-bit programming, which is frustrating and mind numbing for those who also avoid playing against the online punters. Yes, that part I do not like, but I'm also fine with other people that enjoy it. However, the single player events are NOT what I would call racing in the slightest sense, that's all I'm saying. And that's fine, because they aren't intended to be. The world is a happy place because this is understood. :cheers:
 
I have to agree with sumbrownkid to a certain level. Technically, it's still a race. One that suffers from braindead AI? Yes! One that suffers from weird design choices? Yes! But it's still a race (although a really uninteresting one IMO).

However, the fact that you must apply severe restrictions to your car to make it somewhat interesting shows how flawed SP really is. Which is why I play GT5 for online and other games for single player...
 
tazj_7
Sounds like some of you guys need to challenge yourself a little more. Instead of driving over tuned cars bring down the hp and start using tires with less grip
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Whatever you do, there is not a single even in this game the remotely resembles a real life race.

But then again, this is NOT a racing game, its a DRIVING game. Even says so on the box :/
 
Hmm, I don't think the AI is that bad. The problem is balancing your car with the AI. If you use the same tires and slightly slower car, there can be quite decent races. It heavily depends on the track and the specific cars you are driving.
It would be good if the game made it easier to level these.

Yesterday I raced the high PP, real track seasonal event and had quite a challenging races. I used a Mercedes LM CLK-GTR, stock, RH and had some hard time catching the Jud and Sauber race cars. Not only that, but they were not easy to overtake and actually were trying to get their position back. Staying in front was not easy (o.k., with somewhat slower car, admittedly).
 
soulless
But then again, this is NOT a racing game, its a DRIVING game. Even says so on the box :/
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I always thought that this argument doesn't make any sense. Yes, you're driving but you're driving on a track against other people for a trophy. That is racing no matter how you look at it.
 
Cosbuster
I always thought that this argument doesn't make any sense. Yes, you're driving but you're driving on a track against other people for a trophy. That is racing no matter how you look at it.
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I think there is some kind of rule in the AUP that we have to do this at least once a week, it must always be done exactly the same every time, it always has to contain at least one mention of "it says driving on the box", and no one is allowed to win or the whole site gets banned for life. It's required when you sign up....:dopey:
 
I agree with Cosbuster. Competing for first place is always racing, no matter what your/other person's skill is, whether it be in a le mans car or a datsun.
 
counter345
I agree with Cosbuster. Competing for first place is always racing, no matter what your/other person's skill is, whether it be in a le mans car or a datsun.
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The AI aren't competing though, that's my argument. The only time they vary their braking or acceleration points is when you knock them off their line. Otherwise it's single file until the end. Trophies and prizes don't qualify it as a race in the end either, which is why you get quotes from guys like Senna saying that his early years of kart racing were real racing, even without prizes or anything, because it was real competing, pure racing.
 
Due to the inclusion of only tracks and events which you are supposed to win to be able to progress in the game they certainly intended it to be a racing game (it even says so on the back of the box). However they failed miserably in single player.

The fundamental underlying principle of any form of race is that all competitors have an equal opportunity to win. This is the reason for the restrictions that define any given racing forumla from the equipment it is permissable to use to the licenses required to enter.

In GT5 they decided that the player should be the only competitor. This is so that it can appeal to the masses.

In GT5 every player is a winner regardless of their ability.

It is for this reason that GT5 only gets played in our house when we have a group of friends round and we do a bit of competetive time trialling. GT5 is so forgiving anyone can do it regardless of age or ability. None of the other racing games I own can be mastered so quickly by complete novices.
 
mr_serious
Due to the inclusion of only tracks and events which you are supposed to win to be able to progress in the game they certainly intended it to be a racing game (it even says so on the back of the box). However they failed miserably in single player.

The fundamental underlying principle of any form of race is that all competitors have an equal opportunity to win. This is the reason for the restrictions that define any given racing forumla from the equipment it is permissable to use to the licenses required to enter.

In GT5 they decided that the player should be the only competitor. This is so that it can appeal to the masses.

In GT5 every player is a winner regardless of their ability.

It is for this reason that GT5 only gets played in our house when we have a group of friends round and we do a bit of competetive time trialling. GT5 is so forgiving anyone can do it regardless of age or ability. None of the other racing games I own can be mastered so quickly by complete novices.
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That still doesn't make it racing though. Let's say we go out to Spa, put 6 drivers in front of you, limit their acceleration and braking as well as ability to change much of anything at all, then put you in the back and say, "Ok this is the point of this, to get into first place within 5 laps." Those other drivers are not racing you, despite the track, despite the cars, despite someone using the term "race", it still is not racing.


I agree with the rest of your post.
 

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