Just wondering...

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Sampyla20plus

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Dont know has this been discussed but I'm curious to hear from you all.

I've seen alot of complaints about AI being "non-competitive" and "AI on rails" which made me wonder.

Does anyone really race against the AI with similar car at all or does everyone tune the car into the max and then just detune it to meet the requirements ?

Let's have an example, there is a PP500 race by using a FR car, no tire restrictions, so will the player do...

A. Max out the car and then detune it while keeping Racing Softs
B. Use a stock car with stock tires the car comes up with
C. Use a racing car that is detuned to meet the requirement ?
D. Tunes only parts that doesnt affect the PP but uses grippier tires ?
E. Whats your true method ?

I'm just curious person, as I believe the AI isnt half as bad as people are saying it is, why ?
Because, I've seen AI cars overtaking me alot, sometimes I can even see 4 cars side by side, so I wouldnt call that "On a rails" kinda driving at all

Opinions are more than welcome.
 
I always go with method A. RS are SO useful!
 
i started to use stock cars a while ago with stock tires, even if they come with comfort tires, but the AI in GTMode is still "on rails", they are fast but they don't seem smart enough to do something when you overtake them,

i gotta say that AI in Arcade Mode is completely different, put it on level 10 and in expert mode grab a stock car, no tuning, no oil change, aids off and i bet that most ppl wouldn't be able to overtake more than 2 cars, the AI is always given faster cars than yours, so drafting them to gain positions isn't effective, they seem to brake earlier than they could but still sometimes manage to go around a corner faster than you, if theres something to be fixed, would be impredictable behaviour, all in all, the AI is pretty good overall but it definitely used to be **** prior spec 2 i think, or maybe in an earlier update, can't remember
 
definitly A, I tune it to the max but dont screw the car over, just so its possible to overtake the other ones on straight sections of the track. ;)
 
I think the main issue with the AI is that they corner alot slower than you think - Maybe in some tyre preservation mode but - The easy fix is to drop your tyres (Harder or downa full catagory)

The seasonals give you plenty ofscope to Limbo dance your way to a close race. And if you are not after a Gold finish - Perhaps you need Horns and only want a 3rd place finish then the Chase the leader issue isn't so bad - You don't have to make up 25 seconds in 5 laps... It is much less speed needed to catch 3rd pace... so your race from 12th to 3rd will be much more demanding as you have not got the extreme level of performance advatage over the AI cars... You will need to plan where you pass, not just barrel past like it is a computer game... (erm well okay)
Passes will also have to be much cleaner and contact is a risk, so you will need to drive with more care.

I don't like the power restrictor as it makes a realy nasty power curve... Like a Milk Float (Do you have them in Finland?)

Ballast is okay but I tend to leave the car as Normal as possible and use less grippy tyres and add pies and beer in the car to slow it down.

If your car is way too fast - try it with no driver aids - this will add to your lap times, but also add to the fun of driving... and it makes every good clean pass down the inside with a little bit of a lock up and catching the slide as you put down the power too swiftly - much more fun.

Jokimaa was a nice track
 
Ryk
I think the main issue with the AI is that they corner alot slower than you think - Maybe in some tyre preservation mode but - The easy fix is to drop your tyres (Harder or downa full catagory)

The seasonals give you plenty ofscope to Limbo dance your way to a close race. And if you are not after a Gold finish - Perhaps you need Horns and only want a 3rd place finish then the Chase the leader issue isn't so bad - You don't have to make up 25 seconds in 5 laps... It is much less speed needed to catch 3rd pace... so your race from 12th to 3rd will be much more demanding as you have not got the extreme level of performance advatage over the AI cars... You will need to plan where you pass, not just barrel past like it is a computer game... (erm well okay)
Passes will also have to be much cleaner and contact is a risk, so you will need to drive with more care.

I don't like the power restrictor as it makes a realy nasty power curve... Like a Milk Float (Do you have them in Finland?)

Ballast is okay but I tend to leave the car as Normal as possible and use less grippy tyres and add pies and beer in the car to slow it down.

If your car is way too fast - try it with no driver aids - this will add to your lap times, but also add to the fun of driving... and it makes every good clean pass down the inside with a little bit of a lock up and catching the slide as you put down the power too swiftly - much more fun.

Jokimaa was a nice track
Click to expand...

Nice answer, much appreciated, I also use the ballast, by adding my own weight on to the car, AI really seems to brake slower but it is the dimension that fools you I believe, as when I am up and running a race in RL, we are trying to avoid contact at all costs and it always seems like the guy in front of you is like coming at you by using "reverse" gear, so it seems to happen really fast, which is actually how I see GT5 AI doing aswell.
 
mikecustom
i started to use stock cars a while ago with stock tires, even if they come with comfort tires, but the AI in GTMode is still "on rails", they are fast but they don't seem smart enough to do something when you overtake them,

i gotta say that AI in Arcade Mode is completely different, put it on level 10 and in expert mode grab a stock car, no tuning, no oil change, aids off and i bet that most ppl wouldn't be able to overtake more than 2 cars, the AI is always given faster cars than yours, so drafting them to gain positions isn't effective, they seem to brake earlier than they could but still sometimes manage to go around a corner faster than you, if theres something to be fixed, would be impredictable behaviour, all in all, the AI is pretty good overall but it definitely used to be **** prior spec 2 i think, or maybe in an earlier update, can't remember
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Dont know what you expect AI to do when you overtake these? Should they just ram onto you to cause you to spin or .. ?
 
Some people use 900bhp Nissan GT-Rs with Racing Softs and expect the guys on Sunday Cup to be competitive. :D

Well, my method is to use something similar to what the AI use. I always have good and fun races when I use cars according to what the Ai is using. La Festa Cavallino with stock Ferraris, Gallardo/Lambo Challenge with stock Gallardo and goes on. Even a tuned 135i against the heavy germans on Schwarzwald Liga B it's awesome, gotta get that R8 and M5! I even found some AI doing nasty moves, trying to overtake, etc... but in your 900hp RS6 with racing softs that won't happen because the AI will be driving a M3 with sports hard tires.

The latest seasonals with the PDA are good ones too.

Just be reasonable with your car choice/upgrades, and you'll have a good fun.
 
Dont tune the car for performance points just put racing soft on
 
diegorborges
Some people use 900bhp Nissan GT-Rs with Racing Softs and expect the guys on Sunday Cup to be competitive. :D

Well, my method is to use something similar to what the AI use. I always have good and fun races when I use cars according to what the Ai is using. La Festa Cavallino with stock Ferraris, Gallardo/Lambo Challenge with stock Gallardo and goes on. Even a tuned 135i against the heavy germans on Schwarzwald Liga B it's awesome, gotta get that R8 and M5! I even found some AI doing nasty moves, trying to overtake, etc... but in your 900hp RS6 with racing softs that won't happen because the AI will be driving a M3 with sports hard tires.

The latest seasonals with the PDA are good ones too.

Just be reasonable with your car choice/upgrades, and you'll have a good fun.
Click to expand...

I respect your method, that is exactly how people should "challenge" themselves rather than bashing the AI because 200 hp car cannot compete the 900 hp Nissan
Keep up the good work !
 
I always check the little chart that tells you the performance of your rivals before entering in a new race and choose something that is less or equal in terms o performance. tires usually stay either CS or SH.

I know that there are a lot of people who race over-tuned cars in racing soft tires, but that doesn't take the fact that the A.I is really bad. Maybe not as bad as in GT4, but it is bad. I don't know at what point they messed the A.I more than it was, but I remember that in V1.00 the A.I didn't attempt to slow you down by braking in the exit of the corner and it was much more consistent.

Arcade mode offers a bit more "realistic" challange when it comes to the A.I making mistakes and acting agressive, but it all comes down to you racing in a stock M5 with Sport Hards going against a Lambo LP 670-4 SV and a Ferrai Enzo. How in the world can a stock M5, a 1700kg V10 RWD sedan with "only" 510HP stand against a firebreathing 670HP V12 mid engine AWD monster? Making matters worst, you end up winning. For me, that is not realism. That's the A.I slowing down unnecessarily.

For GT5's A.I to be consider realistic, the game should not only choose cars of the same type, but still pose a great challenge.

And then there is the so mentioned "Chase the Rabbit" problem. In my humble opinion, that has to be fixed. You know that there is a problem when the developers are forced to not only rely solely on rolling starts, but give the leader 30 seconds of advantage and go as low as programing the rest of the grid to slow you down so you have a "challenge". And I'm saying this because I just finished the Silvia Seasonal and I had no problems on beating the Trail Mountain 5 Lap challenge with a virtually stock GT Academy Silvia. My engine was stock at 220-something, while the A.I had it tuned up to 246HP. The only problem were the "rolling barricades." Thankfuly I know Trail Mountain so well that I could do a lap with my eyes closed.

So at the end it is not really the difficulty what they need to focus in, but the way that the A.I behaves. The A.I is too robotic as it is. It almost acts like if following a script. But I have faith that in GT6 we will see an A.I that makes mistakes, takes risks, does power slides if provoked to do so and that takes the car at the same level that you do. No rubberband effects though...

As for my method? I don't tune my cars other than a few little upgrades that you could buy in your local shop for a few a hundred bucks. Tires? Comfort Softs is the tire that I mostly use with cars that don't exeed 300HP, though it depends. After that, Sport Hards are my weapon of chioce for cars above 300HP all the way to 550HP, again depending on the car. Sport Medium are only used in rare occassions, as well as Sports Softs that only two of my cars have. Still, A.I poses no challange whatsoever.

Keep it real...
 
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When I was without internet for a few weeks after moving house I ended up having to race the AI for some kicks.

I did the GT500 events with the Casstol Toyota Supra. I used sport medium tyres, ran 487bhp and added 200kgs of ballast. Was a challenge then.
 
PAPPACLART
When I was without internet for a few weeks after moving house I ended up having to race the AI for some kicks.

I did the GT500 events with the Casstol Toyota Supra. I used sport medium tyres, ran 487bhp and added 200kgs of ballast. Was a challenge then.
Click to expand...

That's a good method, but kind of beats the purpose of the "real driving simulator" if you have to rely on detuning and adding handicaps to yourself.

I bet you won at the end.
 
When I first got GT5 on release day, I put RS tires on and blew the AI away, but a few months (yeah -.-) later, I went for the AMG academy and it was so rewarding using different tires and having to really focus on driving.

So now, I use same or worse tires then the AI, and a lower PP (depends on race though) car then the AI.
Not that im racing against the AI that much anymore. From obvious reasons. :sly:
 
Taking the current Academy seasonal with the Silvia as an example, I started the race using the car as it came, it had 428PP I believe. First run I finished 3rd, because of some moving obstacles slowing me down.
I try to avoid contact.
They seem to have a red zone, surrounding AI cars, when your in their zone they just slow down, no matter your behind them, next to them or in front. The closer you get to the cars in 4th, 3rd 2nd an 1st place the smaller this red 'zone' they have appears to be.
The next runs I started to check out the AI's behaving and tried to be one step ahead of them, reacting on what they do before they even do it. With this I was able to pass each one without bumping into or
touching them at all.

Basically maintane the biggest distance to AI possible without loosing too much pace yourself.

It took me 3 or 4 runs to finally win it. So, ok, it was challenging. But this chase the rabbit really gets boring now.

PD, concentrate on one AI-system. Use the one from Arcade mode, maybe 5 steps better. On seasonals then just tell us "Expert Race 'AI is on 14'" for example.
Standing grid starts, or better yet...
Give us back the qualifyings!
 
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Sampyla20plus
Let's have an example, there is a PP500 race by using a FR car, no tire restrictions, so will the player do...

A. Max out the car and then detune it while keeping Racing Softs
B. Use a stock car with stock tires the car comes up with
C. Use a racing car that is detuned to meet the requirement ?
D. Tunes only parts that doesnt affect the PP but uses grippier tires ?
E. Whats your true method ?
Click to expand...

I'm a mixture of A and D. I try to keep the car a stock as possible, no power based upgrades, but I do add a few other tuning parts. I always use the twin clutch, and semi-racing fly wheel, it feels nicer when clutching with it. I also tune a fully customizable transmission and suspension, I don't "fully" tune them, just few tweaks (ie; sport tune suspension, and shorten gears).

Other than that, I keep everything else stock, no ballast, no power limiter, no weight reductions, nothing. I also typically only use comfort softs (or lower) for anything under 200hp, sports for anything above up to 400hp (depending on car, could be higher), and racing only for race cars and similar.

I usually get good runs as I usually pick something out of the "Typical Opponents" list. I find that if you keep, whatever car you're driving that's competitive with the other opponents, stock with no tuning, you don't get those "chase the rabbit" races, you'll get a normal fair grid with 4-5 cars in front and the rest lagging behind. If I'm falling behind, I'll tune/upgrade in the race menu to stick with the same grid.

Edit, I just did the latest seasonal with one make race, kept everything stock with comfort softs, wow, that actually gave me a good run. I really had fun with it, took 3rd a bunch of times (5 to be exact :)) but finally pulled off first!
 
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Sampyla20plus
Dont know has this been discussed but I'm curious to hear from you all.

I've seen alot of complaints about AI being "non-competitive" and "AI on rails" which made me wonder.

Does anyone really race against the AI with similar car at all or does everyone tune the car into the max and then just detune it to meet the requirements ?

Let's have an example, there is a PP500 race by using a FR car, no tire restrictions, so will the player do...

A. Max out the car and then detune it while keeping Racing Softs
B. Use a stock car with stock tires the car comes up with
C. Use a racing car that is detuned to meet the requirement ?
D. Tunes only parts that doesnt affect the PP but uses grippier tires ?
E. Whats your true method ?

I'm just curious person, as I believe the AI isnt half as bad as people are saying it is, why ?
Because, I've seen AI cars overtaking me alot, sometimes I can even see 4 cars side by side, so I wouldnt call that "On a rails" kinda driving at all

Opinions are more than welcome.
Click to expand...

Please try to be more specific in your thread titles

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=154635
 
I can't use same type of car and power on must seasonals because the AI has a lot of advantage at the beginning of the race and we get very few laps (about 5).

GT5 needs qualification and/or grid starts in order to become more enjoyable.
For me AI isn't that bad. (using same pp, tires and starndard transmission). The major problem is they slow down when you are about to overtake.
 
ChicoMaloXD
I can't use same type of car and power on must seasonals because the AI has a lot of advantage at the beginning of the race and we get very few laps (about 5).

GT5 needs qualification and/or grid starts in order to become more enjoyable.
For me AI isn't that bad. (using same pp, tires and starndard transmission). The major problem is they slow down when you are about to overtake.
Click to expand...

This. and I'm pretty sure that it wasn't like this on release version. I remember that most people (including me) said good things about the A.I. Somewhere along the way, things got messed up with the updates.

I've clearly seen A.I drivers slowing down not only when you are next to them or behind them at the exit of a corner, but even when you are already in front of them. It's horrible also when you're head to head in a straight, and the the A.I just decides to let of the gas pedal for no reason.

The most annoying is when you've messured your speed and braking distance to catch up with someone in front of you, and the A.I suddenly slams the brakes at the middle of the corner, making you crash on them.
 
HuskyGT
I always check the little chart that tells you the performance of your rivals before entering in a new race and choose something that is less or equal in terms o performance. tires usually stay either CS or SH.

I know that there are a lot of people who race over-tuned cars in racing soft tires, but that doesn't take the fact that the A.I is really bad. Maybe not as bad as in GT4, but it is bad. I don't know at what point they messed the A.I more than it was, but I remember that in V1.00 the A.I didn't attempt to slow you down by braking in the exit of the corner and it was much more consistent.

Arcade mode offers a bit more "realistic" challange when it comes to the A.I making mistakes and acting agressive, but it all comes down to you racing in a stock M5 with Sport Hards going against a Lambo LP 670-4 SV and a Ferrai Enzo. How in the world can a stock M5, a 1700kg V10 RWD sedan with "only" 510HP stand against a firebreathing 670HP V12 mid engine AWD monster? Making matters worst, you end up winning. For me, that is not realism. That's the A.I slowing down unnecessarily.

For GT5's A.I to be consider realistic, the game should not only choose cars of the same type, but still pose a great challenge.

And then there is the so mentioned "Chase the Rabbit" problem. In my humble opinion, that has to be fixed. You know that there is a problem when the developers are forced to not only rely solely on rolling starts, but give the leader 30 seconds of advantage and go as low as programing the rest of the grid to slow you down so you have a "challenge". And I'm saying this because I just finished the Silvia Seasonal and I had no problems on beating the Trail Mountain 5 Lap challenge with a virtually stock GT Academy Silvia. My engine was stock at 220-something, while the A.I had it tuned up to 246HP. The only problem were the "rolling barricades." Thankfuly I know Trail Mountain so well that I could do a lap with my eyes closed.

So at the end it is not really the difficulty what they need to focus in, but the way that the A.I behaves. The A.I is too robotic as it is. It almost acts like if following a script. But I have faith that in GT6 we will see an A.I that makes mistakes, takes risks, does power slides if provoked to do so and that takes the car at the same level that you do. No rubberband effects though...

As for my method? I don't tune my cars other than a few little upgrades that you could buy in your local shop for a few a hundred bucks. Tires? Comfort Softs is the tire that I mostly use with cars that don't exeed 300HP, though it depends. After that, Sport Hards are my weapon of chioce for cars above 300HP all the way to 550HP, again depending on the car. Sport Medium are only used in rare occassions, as well as Sports Softs that only two of my cars have. Still, A.I poses no challange whatsoever.

Keep it real...
Click to expand...

This ^ 100%
 
Tuning or tire choice doesn't have anything to do with AI.
AI means the computer learns and adapts, not the player.
Sorry to say in GT5 there is no AI.
 
The AI suck, simple as that. If you race them in a 100% identical car starting at the same time you'll pass and win with ease, no challenge. The only time things get tricky is if you intentionally handicap yourself or if the game handicaps you by starting 30 seconds behind and even then they're still not fast, you just have to catch them at 5 seconds a lap.
 
SimonK
The AI suck, simple as that. If you race them in a 100% identical car starting at the same time you'll pass and win with ease, no challenge. The only time things get tricky is if you intentionally handicap yourself or if the game handicaps you by starting 30 seconds behind and even then they're still not fast, you just have to catch them at 5 seconds a lap.
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Sometimes. If you didn't no how to drive it would be hard. :sly:
 
gamerdog6482
Sometimes. If you didn't no how to drive it would be hard. :sly:
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Well yes, that's the other issue. PD don't seem to have discovered the concept of scaling AI difficulty. Most console games have had at least Easy/Medium/Hard levels for years, PC sim games go even further with a percentage scaling. 100% too hard? Try 99%.

But no, not PD. They have a one size fits all difficulty but unfortunately it doesn't fit anyone with decent driving skill.
 
HuskyGT
This. and I'm pretty sure that it wasn't like this on release version. I remember that most people (including me) said good things about the A.I. Somewhere along the way, things got messed up with the updates.

I've clearly seen A.I drivers slowing down not only when you are next to them or behind them at the exit of a corner, but even when you are already in front of them. It's horrible also when you're head to head in a straight, and the the A.I just decides to let of the gas pedal for no reason.

The most annoying is when you've messured your speed and braking distance to catch up with someone in front of you, and the A.I suddenly slams the brakes at the middle of the corner, making you crash on them.
Click to expand...

This about sums it up. Slow pace and predictably dumb lines can be worked around by the player, but the parking issue is just plain frustrating.

I've even seen a complete novice racer in their first session with the game recognize it(with no prompting at all) and have it dampen their enjoyment significantly after the tenth time a bot throws out the anchors mid-corner for no reason other than the player's car is closing too fast. So that suggests that in fact it may not even be a good thing for casual players.

The sad thing is that as you said, it wasn't that way at the start. They intentionally ruined their own game's offline gameplay around patch 1.06-07 if memory serves. They've had over a year since then to see how it affects gameplay and get the community's reaction, and they apparently think it's just fine as it is.
 
I could recommend something that is worth trying, have an Online race with 15 other people, aim for pure clean racing, save the replay and watch how did you all perform, I bet there would be something similar to AI's action what comes to "Braking even if the AI is behind the player car" and such.

Worth a shot.
 
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