kennythebomb's BESTuners tryout report: He is in!

[DuckRacer]

1964 Ginetta G4

Deep Forest Raceway Time: 1'11.456

Total Cost for Mods - 224,750 Credits

BESTuner: kennythebomb

Exterior:​

I didn't quite know what to expect, really. I was driven to a small German town with some racetrack nearby, they told me... the deal is some owner of British sports car wanted me to drive his car and give it a review... said he'd done some modifications. That's what I get for being famous for tuning cars and reviewing them in the hit British mag, "Tuning to Perfection". Despite spilling coffee on my lap, I was in high spirits as we arrived to the track, named 'Deep Forest'. I expected some tricked-out Lotus. Instead, I was greeted by the soft reverberations of a Ginetta G4. Holy hell, I hadn't seen one of these in 20 years. It's like seeing a Lotus for the first time - goshdarn they are TINY cars.

"It's a '64," said the owner. I noticed immediately a full rollcage and some expensive racing tires. He rattled off to me some other things he'd put on the car. "Very nice," I remarked.

Some people say Ginetta G4's look like a Jaguar E-Type after coming out of the wash. I agree, I suppose, however the rear window certainly takes some getting used to. I am amazed at the beauty of this Cirrus White example. Classic styling in a sort of Chapmanesque way. I hate to draw parallels between manufacturers, however you have to admit both say a Lotus Elite and this G4 of similar years share English heritage, are extremely light weight, and have relatively low power... yet are both freaking fun to drive!

I strap myself into the 6-point harness and have a go at it. "Feel free to use the Nitrous."

Seconds later I am barreling down the straight. Coming to the tight lefthander, I slow down very early, and slide off into the grass. What the?!?! This car is impossible to drive. *I* didn't lose control - the car was so amazingly light in the rear end that it just went about it's own merry way. Well, screw this... I pull into the pits and demand some downforce.

"Sorry chap... a wing would destroy the looks of this car! I cannot possibly contaminate it's pure lines."

"Ok... well.... uh... I'm going to have to do some modifications to your car then if you want a review."

"Have at it."

A few hours later I successfully counter the lack of downforce by manipulating the LSD and the suspension. His racing transmission also needed to be set a bit to make full use of the track. I didn't quite expect 5 gears. After noticing that the track had 2 rather lengthy areas of full-on acceleration, I set the first 4 gears for quick acceleration, and a tall 5th gear.

I pulled out for some more laps, kinda gentle but I had full confidence in my tuning ability. My personal saying goes, "If I don't tune it right, then I deserve to crash." Seeing as how this Ginetta is not under my name, I tried to be somewhat reserved. That cautiousness evaporated soon as I hit the nitrous coming out of the first turn, barely staying on the course. "This is fun," I thought to myself in the brief time I had to think such things before I had to upshift and start easing to the left of the track.

There is nothing quite so exhilarating as flying into a corner without any knowledge of the course or of the car you are driving.

Oooh, a tunnel. I am only about 30 seconds into my lap and I can already tell this car is much more behaved. I wish I could say the same for my wife.

On to the backstraight... I hit the nitrous at the perfect moment to clear the ominous wall of rock. This little car surges forwards like a beast suddenly motivated to go like hell. I realize I am going over 100mph on these light curves. Suddenly it starts to get bumpy, and I'm still on the nitrous. Holy hell, the car is starting to get loose! It's pulling to the right! I let off the nitrous and come flying into yet another tunnel and I think I can make out a left-hand turn at the end of it. No choice but to mash the brakes and well... as they say hope for the best! Downshift twice and I steer hard to the left although the road is leaning to and curving to the right. Who designed this course anyway? I say a 1 second prayer and find myself still on the road, drifting into this sharper than I thought left corner. I can see the far edge of the grass coming closer to me, but instinctively I tap the gas just enough to set the car right... and I clear the corner. Isn't it a wonderful thing that professional drivers have no fear? I think that is the proving grounds right there... if you can overcome common sense and your brain's constant barrage of "you are going to die" than you are fit to be a race driver. The crowds of invisible people in my head cheer for my insane foolishness and mastery of driving skill. Ok, so maybe I had some help. With that in mind the road seems to straighten out and I hit the nitrous yet again. Coming downhill, I can see a fast left turn.... I slow down and downshift. Well I'll be damned, the curve ain't quite so fast! 4th gear and I slide yet again. I must say I hit that apex perfectly. Body roll is pretty much not even a factor. I wonder if he did some chassis-stiffening? He must have done this for this small car to handle a 100-shot of nitrous. Anyway, I quit thinking and start racing... foot on the floor and using the last bit of juice in the bottle sitting next to me, my only companion in the most harrowing and exciting lap of any course I have ever driven on.

Pros​

Insane fun!
Ample horsepower coupled with extreme lightweight... insane fun! Did I already say that?
Classic styling
With the right driver can be an effective weapon against even modern cars

Cons​

You ARE going to kill yourself if you race it at it's full potential.
You have to use the nitrous more than you'd hope for the car to gain speed at a rate some family sedans can do now.

Overall​

Fun car, that is all there is to say. 8.5/10 in my book. The only thing I am concerned about is safety at high speeds. This is not the car to learn how to race in. You'd be safer in a Geo Metro in a demolition derby where all the other vehicles are SUVs.

Installed Parts and Other Mods​

Stage 1 lighten (at least the owner was bright enough not to lighten it too much)
Racing exhaust
Racing chip (dunno how this works on a 1964 car, but it's there)
Super soft R5 tyres
100 shot of Nitrous
Stage 2 turbo
Racing brakes and a brake controller
Racing suspension
Full racing tranny
Triple plate clutch
Racing flywheel
Carbon Driveshaft
Full LSD
Port and polish
Engine balancing
Chassis Stiffening

Settings​

No driving aids

Suspension:
spring rate 6.4/15.0
ride height 86/114
shock(bound) 8/8
shock (rebound) 8/8
camber 2.0/1.0
toe 1/0
stabilizers 4/7

Transmission
2.786/1.944/1.366/1.033/.706 Final 3.920
Auto 8.... dunno where he bought that system? Works nice though 👍 I'll have to look into that one.

LSD 10/40/60

Horsepower is at 234.

Brake Balance: 7/8

As you can see, I didn't bother to really screw around with much. The car comes out of the bag with great handling, I just had to set it up to be able to handle high speeds. So, my only real concern was to be able to control at those high speeds. It turned nearly sharp enough, which is why toe is only adjusted by one increment in the front. Everything else was done so stabilize the car. Lowering the front kept the nose from lifting at the end of the main straight. Personally I like a car to have a slight bit of oversteer so I an use that to my advantage in the middle of a twisty. I experienced no understeer.

The owner was impressed with my driving ability. In true British style I just kinda shrugged it off as nothing. We got to talking about photography, and ended up doing a photo shoot in Monaco. So, here is some eye candy for you to enjoy.

​

 

[SUROKIA]

this bestuners is in the wrong thread, (it should be in write ups / race reports)

 

[Scaff]

I thought these were supposed to be anon, oh well.

This one has me in a real fix, I love the write-up itself, nice flow and a good sense of direction. Firmly placing the reader in the drivers seat and making them feel a part of the action.

However the settings just don't do it for me, now it doesn't help that this is also the last car I tuned for BESTuners, and I'm even willing to put aside the fact that nitrous has been used on a G4.

My issue is with how stiff this set-up is, now I more than anyone are aware that set-up is a very personal thing. But max spring rates at the rear for a car this light as Deep Forest! Combined with very stiff damper settings just made for a very nervous ride, far more that I am personally happy with and no wonder the author found it a harrowing experience.

The gear settings are excellent however and suit the car well, I do also have to question the logic of fitting a brake balance controller and then not using it.

All these rock-hard settings must be a trend I'm just not keeping up with, but it just does not suit my driving style at all, the car didn't seem to flow in my hands.

I'm going to decline a public vote on this one, as I feel a little too close to the car with my own set-up (which may prove a handy reference to anyone wanting to try the two - just remember its not a contest between the two set-ups).

The rest of BESTuners will get to know my final opinion, now lets see what the rest of you have to say.


Regards

Scaff

 

[Scaff]

this bestuners is in the wrong thread, (it should be in write ups / race reports)

Its a try out thread for BESTuners and as such is placed so the maximum number of members can see it.

I'm sure that if a mod would like us to move it, allthey have to do is ask, but as a number of super mods have posted in the other try out threads and given how quite the forums are at present I suspect its not a major issue.

Regards

Scaff.

BTW its a valid point to raise, so please don't get me wrong. Oh and what do you think of the set-up?

 

[kennythebomb]

Wow, I am surprised also that this isn't anonymous.

I KNEW that post was coming from you, Scaff.

(By the way I had no knowledge that you had just done a Ginetta until after I was already nearly done with my work)

In my defense.... the entire setup was *only* to combat the lack of downforce, as far as I was concerned.

The handling of the car, as I mentioned in the report, was suited just fine to my style, which is why I only felt the need to adjust the toe by one increment.

My mission was to see if I could get around the track as fast as I could, and the only way to do that was with maxing the car out and using nitrous.

Thus, since I come from a GT4 drag racing background, I know exactly how to keep these cars on the ground. So - that's what I did. Every change I made had a positive impact on keeping the car on the ground and giving me control when braking.

By the way, the brake controller is at 7/8.

 

[DuckRacer]

The brake balance thing is my fault. I forgot to add it.

Also, this isn't anonymous because it would be boring to put "Tryout III" on it. You gotta spice it up a little.

this bestuners is in the wrong thread, (it should be in write ups / race reports)

I asked Duke if I could post it here, and he said yes. And this could go in the Photo Galleries forum, the settings forum, or the race reports.

 

[zefff]

Very inventive and great continuity. 👍

Sadly though I think there was too much talk of the driver and not enough about the car. This is reflected in the settings IMHO. Dont get me wrong I love a stiff setup too sometimes but I do it on purpose to make the drive a challenging one, not just a fastest one.

The nitrous bothered me but not as much as the "true British style" thing. WTF?!? IMHO these types of car are infact excellent for developing skill because you have to optimise your driving lines and keep momentum up rather than relying on brute power to cover your mistakes.

I really liked the style of the writing and the photography, but the settings and lack of logical reasoning let it down for me.

 

[Perfect Balance]

I think it is really good, I really like the way the report goes as a story, and the pics ar great.

 

[kennythebomb]

IMHO these types of car are infact excellent for developing skill because you have to optimise your driving lines and keep momentum up rather than relying on brute power to cover your mistakes.

I really liked the style of the writing and the photography, but the settings and lack of logical reasoning let it down for me.

Honestly, there is only one racing line for that setup and that lap of mine.

ANY deviation at all and you are slowing way way down because you will crash.

I know some of the BESTuners just kinda casually take a few laps, but that laptime you see there is a result of around 2 hours practice. I'm not relying on brute power, I had to learn exactly where and how long to use the nitrous, and how to set up for everything.

I know it may appear I didn't put much effort into the tuning side, but I think I put enough into it that I was able to get great laps and do it again, except of course the juice only lasted for one lap.

Thank you for the reply and for your concerns

Same to you Alex

 

[Tornado]

I think your dedication to trying to get a good lap mirrors in your report, and it is indeed a well-written report, but the problem is that the settings just don't seem to make any sense. The only real problem is that I've spent alot of time trying to get rid of the, ah, overzealous handling of this car, and I simply don't think that making the suspension harder is the way to go, especially for straight line stability. It has enough turn in and handling prowess already, IMO, and it seems to look like you tried to increase it instead of making it easier to drive fast. While your attempts to fix the brakes and braking stability sound to have been successful, it also sounds like it came at the result of decreased straight line stability in a car that already has a problem with that very trait. That being said, you do show true dedication to your settings, so I gave you the nod.

 

[Mt. Lynx]

Amazing report, I must say!
But I´m going to have to to go on Scaffs line here. I have a gripe with the use of NOS, since it somewhat makes a really good setup obsolete, as I´m sure is the case here. And that suspension is simply too hard for me, although i find it interesting. It kinda challanges me to get that laptime without NOS and a better setup, although that is probably impossible (because of the NOS).
Otherwise, this is great, both the writing and the pics! But untill I´ve tried the setup, I will not vote.

 

[Brock5000]

I have a gripe with the use of NOS, since it somewhat makes a really good setup obsolete, as I´m sure is the case here.

I wouldn't say the use of NO2 necessarily makes a setup obsolete, though lap times may be irrelevant. It would only have an affect if the gearing is tuned for top speed with a full burst of NO2 (which would be pretty easy to adjust down), or if the LSD and suspension has been specifically tuned to hit a particular part of the track under full NO2, which the reviwer should say so if it is the case.

Going on the bestuners reviews I've read, I'd say both applicants would fit in and, no doubt, improve upon their style over time.

 

[ferrari_chris]

Hmmm, it's all a bit OTT for my liking. I thought we were reviewing the G4? Seems more like the driver reviews his own ability more than the car itself...

IMO, the style is totally wrong.

 

[Kent]

I voted yes.

There are some problems in my opinion though.
To get those out in the open first...

The Photos:
I would have liked it if Deep Forest photos were used but the style of the photos were well done. 👍

The Settings:
I haven't tried them so it's hard to say, but as of right now they just look unbalanced from front to rear.
Some major oversteer was put into that car through those settings and I wonder if that is really necessary in a car like the Ginetta.
Still, they could work so I can't say much for sure.

The Writing:
Although I love a good story, this felt a little heavy on the writing.
I would have liked seeing more content under "pros, cons, overall" and less on the imaginary trip to test the car.
That much text to start a post can put off the reader (which causes the reader to lose sight of the content).

Overall:
I found the potential for a great BESTuner is there, however, refinement on the three subjects listed above will be required before the reviews reach the potential of the writer.

Just my opinion.

 

[Moloch_horridus]

If the reasons behind the decisions for tuning the car had been given in the report I would have voted yes but without them I thought it was a bit light. I would love to know more about tuning but I do not think any of these try-out reports have added anything significant to my knowledge (except perhaps this one once the explanations were given - will have to remember this if I ever go drag racing).

 

[DuckRacer]

The review
Great story, kept me hooked, but talked about the driver more than the car. 👍

The pics
They're good, definitely quality. 👍

The set-up
It made the car more sluggish and unresponsive. Too much body roll for my tastes. But it did stabilize it a lot. But if you hit one of the curbs, you go flying into the woods and have to pick out splinters out of your face. With the stock set-up, though, it was more stable, and wasn't as prone to spin out. But on flatter tracks with less bumps, cornering imporved. I noted that without the set-up, the tires squealed earlier. With the set-up, cornering imporved with little tire squeal. But if I were to choose settings for this car on Deep Forest, I'd choose the stock ones, because I prefer stiffer cars than ones with body roll.


But overall, I like it, and it gets my vote. 👍