Lack of Tolerance in this Forum (Rant)

[Danoff]

Tolerance, it's a word that's often misused these days. It means respect, not agreement - and it's something that I've seen lacking in a major way here in the cars forum.

Many aspects about cars are subjective. Some people value gas mileage. Some people value towing capability. Some people perfer sharp edges in a car body. Others like smooth curves. Some people like FWD, some folks like RWD, there are even a few people that like AWD.

When people purchase cars they do it for a wide variety of reasons, from economy to utility, looks, handling, power - some crazy people even select cars because they come with a nice radio or a fancy GPS system.

I'd like to see a little more tolerance from many of the folks that frequent here for other peoples' opinions about cars. It doesn't mean you have to agree with them. But when it comes to whether or not the interior of the viper vs. the interior of the corvette is important - you have to realize that there is no right answer.

Power or handling, which is more important? Depends on the person.
Interior or weight, which is more important? Depends on the person.
Gas mileage or towing/offroad capability? Depends on the person.
Looks or performance? Depends on the person.

The beauty of capitalism is that it gives us variety, so we can pick and choose between the multitudes of cars out there to find the one that fits us just right. I'm not saying that you have to agree with everyone. Certainly not. Just try to keep in mind that cars are like beautiful women or art - there is no right answer. Everybody has different preferences and you have to respect that because yours aren't inherently better than theirs. This isn't math or logic, there is no objective truth here.

 

[guska]

*applause* *more applause* *big red tick*

Thank you for pointing this out before I did. The reason I have not posted more in there forums is simply because of the aforementioned lack of respect and torelance. It gets very irritating, and if it wasn't for a quality of the majority of post on these boards, I would not still be here. But because of said quality posts (of which yours, sir, is most definitely one of), I recently purchased a premium account, along with a coffee mug and t-shirt.

Please people, have a little respect for other people's opinions and views, as they will have had a different upbringing and had different life experiences to you. Above all, EVERYONE'S opinion IS important, and even if you do not agree with it, the etiquette of debate is to listen, and RESPECTFULLY disagree.

Well thats just my opinion.

 

[niky]

Here here... all these Vette vs. Viper, OHV vs DOHC, Imports vs Muscle arguments are getting old.

We ought to have our own stickies... like the America thread in Opinions... where all the bashing goes... or can be banished to to clean up threads.

 

[Carl.]

Totally agree. I'll make an exception for the Acura RSX though. Who the hell is stupid enough to buy these torqueless fwd sportscar-wannabe POS anyways?

 

[Jay]

Good points Danoff.

Here here... all these Vette vs. Viper, OHV vs DOHC, Imports vs Muscle arguments are getting old.

Oh yes I agree, the arguments are getting very old. Thats why in a couple of threads I have attempted to stop these arguments.

 

[Master_Yoda]

Totally agree. I'll make an exception for the Acura RSX though. Who the hell is stupid enough to buy these torqueless fwd sportscar-wannabe POS anyways?

People that like the looks of it. I like the looks... So you don't "totally" agree with him. Like he said, some people buy it cause they would like the looks.

I can understand your point, cause i would say the same thing about Hummers... They should be in the military, and ONLY there. Since the only thing i see them used for, is to put big shinny crome rims on it. I feel the same way about all SUV's. There bulky, ugly, horable for the enviroment. It's why i like imports, invromentally friendly Althought lots of other companys have there Green car.
But this is all my opinion..

 

[Taurine]

I don't actually like you danoff, I think you're a prick to be honest but for once I agree with your whining.

But the Z06 sucks, pushrods are outdated, the 2JZ and RB26 are king, look no further then the almighty GTR and American cars are fat - ugly - slow and pointless.

That is all.

 

[Master_Yoda]

I don't actually like you danoff, I think you're a prick to be honest but for once I agree with your whining.

But the Z06 sucks, pushrods are outdated, the 2JZ and RB26 are king, look no further then the almighty GTR and American cars are fat - ugly - slow and pointless.

That is all.

That gave me a chuckle.. But i'm not going say anything..

 

[backspace]

That gave me a chuckle.. But i'm not going say anything..

Go ahead, nobody takes you serious anyway..

👍

I agree with danoff. +

 

[luftrofl]

1) I think the major problem is that we're on the internet. Not entirely because it's anonymous(though it might be a part of it), but because everything is put so bluntly here. In real life, putting things bluntly is quite rare- and often included in the statement is something along the lines of "to put it bluntly" or some other phrase that implies that the speaker doesn't mean to insult the listener. People then see blunt statements as "offensive" or something similar, and chaos ensues.

2) There are bigger issues online than online car preference flame-wars. The stupid use of the word "gay," for example is a much bigger issue. Having something against homosexuals is one thing, but now people just do it to be cool. This then makes it "okay" for people to bash homosexuals.

I think this picture basically describes all of the trash-talking "car enthusiasts" online.
The text is small, so incase you can't read it, it reads: "Cause talking **** in person is dangerous."

 

[Taurine]

I also feel that picture applies to 90% of opinions forum users as well as cars in general.

Infact, 90% of GTP overall, including staff.

 

[IMADreamer]

What's funny is people can't even have tolerance in a thread about tolerance. Crazy kids.

 

[Taurine]

I just find this thread extremely ironic thats all.

Some people need to learn to lighten up, this is the internet, go outside catch some sunlight, swing some o's, screw your missus senseless whatever floats your boat as long as it isnt whining on the internet like a little ***** whos just had their icecream stolen in the neighbourhood playground.

I use the internet for gathering information, I don't ask for people opinions here because they are either

a) control freaks rejected by their families so resort to the one place they can live out their use of the control stick

b) jealous of my position or somebody elses so therefore tend to act 'with little tolerance'

c) have no previous car experiences (IE: Owning a '97 Z28 Camaro does not mean you are a reliable source of knowledge, neither does the fact that you've driven an S2000 for 30 minutes and an Evo 8 MR for a few)

d) simply nobodies, who are they? They're real people I wont deny that but I can bet you they have a dead end job doing sweet **** all and with nothing else to occupy their time they sit on the internet bagging other people who think outside the square.

That is all.

 

[niky]

Yes, a lot of us are in here to relax. And we can't do it if people are "shouting" in our ears left and right, spouting the same old e-arguments over and over... Some of us actually do have jobs and a life offline... otherwise, how could we afford to be on so much, at our age?

But I'm not in the business of categorizing everyone according my own simplistic world view.

You forgot types "E" and "F".

e.) People who like to chat, find people of similar likes and dislikes and are online generally to satisfy their automotive itch, because we don't have an unlimited gas allowance or a race track within five miles of our house... and we can't spend every other weekend at the shop getting a new set of shocks installed...

f.) People who generally think they're smarter than everyone else, and have to put down others just to prove they're above it all.

-----

Now, I don't always agree with danoff, but I respect him because while he may be an opinionated brick, he keeps the argument strictly within bounds and he doesn't allude to anyone's mother or sexual preference. He's a decent guy.

I also feel that picture applies to 90% of opinions forum users as well as cars in general.

Infact, 90% of GTP overall, including staff.

Nice attitude... how long are you planning on staying? Take note, this is the car talk forum... if you want to make personal jabs or jabs at people in general, take it to the rumble strip.

 

[Carl.]

I can understand your point. [...]

Trust me, you don't.

 

[Swift]

Now, I want to bring up a specific reference here because he's gone anyway.

But BX had a truck that he modified the way most people would modify a sports car/coupe. He was ragged on to the point that he left. Now, he should've had a thicker skin, but why did we have to hound on him so hardly about his truck? Yeah, he lied before about major things and he was probably too proud of his truck. But that's no reason to cop the attitude "Lowering a truck is stupid".

I don't agree with what BX did to his truck as I think it's a waste of time and money. However, I'm not going to JUDGE him just because he took HIS time and money to do what he wanted to do. If he did the same thing to say, an old school Camaro, everyone would've been loving it. But it was a truck, so he got the flame thrower no matter where he posted. That is the very definition of intolerance.

Good thread Dan 👍

 

[Carl.]

Now, I want to bring up a specific reference here because he's gone anyway.

But BX had a truck that he modified the way most people would modify a sports car/coupe. He was ragged on to the point that he left. Now, he should've had a thicker skin, but why did we have to hound on him so hardly about his truck? Yeah, he lied before about major things and he was probably too proud of his truck. But that's no reason to cop the attitude "Lowering a truck is stupid".

I don't agree with what BX did to his truck as I think it's a waste of time and money. However, I'm not going to JUDGE him just because he took HIS time and money to do what he wanted to do. If he did the same thing to say, an old school Camaro, everyone would've been loving it. But it was a truck, so he got the flame thrower no matter where he posted. That is the very definition of intolerance.

Personnally, the only reason I've picked on his truck, on purpose, is because he was the one judging other people on how they spend their money in the first place. If he wants to cry a freaking river about what happened instead of learning something out of this, then so be it.

He was also the one regularily throwing stupid generalizations about [insert specific model/type of car here] owners being [insert generic insult here]. Yet when someone raised a valid question about his choices / tastes, the answer was that we could never understand it. Yeah, right.

He acted like an immature prick, and was treated as such. If someone is missing his presence in the car forums, just copy / paste about everything on leftlane news, carscoop and gminsider and you're all set.

Seriously.


Edit: Oh, and danoff, you had to plug economics somewhere in that post, did you?

 

[Gil]

Tolerance, it's a word that's often misused these days. It means respect, not agreement - and it's something that I've seen lacking in a major way here in the cars forum.

Many aspects about cars are subjective. Some people value gas mileage. Some people value towing capability. Some people perfer sharp edges in a car body. Others like smooth curves. Some people like FWD, some folks like RWD, there are even a few people that like AWD.

When people purchase cars they do it for a wide variety of reasons, from economy to utility, looks, handling, power - some crazy people even select cars because they come with a nice radio or a fancy GPS system.

I'd like to see a little more tolerance from many of the folks that frequent here for other peoples' opinions about cars. It doesn't mean you have to agree with them. But when it comes to whether or not the interior of the viper vs. the interior of the corvette is important - you have to realize that there is no right answer.

Power or handling, which is more important? Depends on the person.
Interior or weight, which is more important? Depends on the person.
Gas mileage or towing/offroad capability? Depends on the person.
Looks or performance? Depends on the person.

The beauty of capitalism is that it gives us variety, so we can pick and choose between the multitudes of cars out there to find the one that fits us just right. I'm not saying that you have to agree with everyone. Certainly not. Just try to keep in mind that cars are like beautiful women or art - there is no right answer. Everybody has different preferences and you have to respect that because yours aren't inherently better than theirs. This isn't math or logic, there is no objective truth here.

You have one hell of a nerve being so damn right, danoff!!👍
I only wish I could have said it as well.
I only wish I didn't see some of my self in that description.
What a "wake-up" call.
Thanks

 

[Swift]

Personnally, the only reason I've picked on his truck, on purpose, is because he was the one judging other people on how they spend their money in the first place. If he wants to cry a freaking river about what happened instead of learning something out of this, then so be it.

He was also the one regularily throwing stupid generalizations about [insert specific model/type of car here] being [insert generic insult here]. Yet when someone raised a valid question about his choices / tastes, the answer was that we could never understand it. Yeah, right.

He acted like an immature prick, and was treated as such. If someone is missing his presence in the car forums, just copy / paste about everything on leftlane news, carscoop and gminsider and you're all set.

Seriously.

You so missed the point there. I was not talking about his attitude or prior mistakes. I was talking about the fact that almost all active members in this forum ragged on his truck every chance they got. Usually, without a good reason. Sometimes he would say stupid things like, "My truck can out handle any car you have!" Those type of statements set him up for flaming(and deserved too). But I've seen instances when people would just dismiss his opinions because he has a lowered truck. This is what I'm talking about.

Anyway, it really wasn't meant to start a side note on Danoff's point. But more of a recent example and how we all need to be a little more tolerant of people's personal preferences.

 

[Poverty]

people ragged on his truck because of his attitude. It was as simply as that really. He seemed to think he was above people, a boy of double standards who would always change his opinion on something to suit his argument.

 

[Carl.]

You so missed the point there. I was not talking about his attitude or prior mistakes. I was talking about the fact that almost all active members in this forum ragged on his truck every chance they got. Usually, without a good reason. Sometimes he would say stupid things like, "My truck can out handle any car you have!" Those type of statements set him up for flaming(and deserved too). But I've seen instances when people would just dismiss his opinions because he has a lowered truck. This is what I'm talking about.

Nope, I didn't missed the point. What happened between me and him in the ps3 thread, which added fuel to what was going on in the questionable modifications thread, mostly is what caused him to leave.

For the most part, people were nagging him because of his attitude, not because of his truck. When someone makes an harmless joke about your car, what else can you expect if you have a piss-poor reaction?? He was the one flaunting his truck all over the place, yet he couldn't take any critics on it.

Anyone that feels threatened of belittled by what others thinks of his car seriously needs to grow up. Furthermore, if the same person is belitteling other people's choices about theirs, then he seriously needs to grow a brain.

 

[Swift]

Nope, I didn't missed the point. What happened between me and him in the ps3 thread, which added fuel to what was going on in the questionable modifications thread, mostly is what caused him to leave.

For the most part, people were nagging him because of his attitude, not because of his truck. When someone makes an harmless joke about your car, what else can you expect if you have a piss-poor reaction?? He was the one flaunting his truck all over the place, yet he couldn't take any critics on it.

Anyone that feels threatened of belittled by what others thinks of his car seriously needs to grow up. Furthermore, if the same person is belitteling other people's choices about theirs, then he seriously needs to grow a brain.

Again, I'm not saying that there wasn't some of it that wasn't deserved. What I'm saying is that his truck was always used to slap him in the face. I'm not even saying people were wrong to give him a hard time.

So, I'm not saying that BX shouldn't have gotten a hard time. I just want us all to take an objective look at exactly WHAT we were ragging on him for. He had a juvenile attitude and was overly proud. Two things that get people at GTP in hot water quickly. But usually we know to give them a hard time for that and not for their tastes.

 

[Carl.]

Again, I'm not saying that there wasn't some of it that wasn't deserved. What I'm saying is that his truck was always used to slap him in the face. I'm not even saying people were wrong to give him a hard time.

So, I'm not saying that BX shouldn't have gotten a hard time. I just want us all to take an objective look at exactly WHAT we were ragging on him for. He had a juvenile attitude and was overly proud. Two things that get people at GTP in hot water quickly. But usually we know to give them a hard time for that and not for their tastes.

Well, my take is that it is his attitude that got him all the heat, not his truck. If he is still concerned, or feel any harm about people nagging his truck, he missed the point by a few miles.

Besides, between having only aseptic, overly sanitized discussions all over the place or a few bruised car-egos once in a while, I'd go for the latter. As long as it's not insults toward people, or group of people, I don't see a problem with that.

People had their religious beliefs criticized much more harshly than his Blazer was over here, yet no one left in a huffy.

 

[Swift]

People had their religious beliefs criticized much more harshly than his Blazer was in my opinion, and no one left in a huffy becaused of that.

Being on the receiving end of what you're talking about, I agree. 👍

 

[guska]

I didn't see a lot of the ragging of BX's truck but what I saw was brought on by his attitude (yes I know it has been done to death). IMO I respect him for having the guts to do something different in a world where variety is pretty much discouraged.

 

[IMADreamer]

Yes, a lot of us are in here to relax. And we can't do it if people are "shouting" in our ears left and right, spouting the same old e-arguments over and over... Some of us actually do have jobs and a life offline... otherwise, how could we afford to be on so much, at our age?

But I'm not in the business of categorizing everyone according my own simplistic world view.

You forgot types "E" and "F".

e.) People who like to chat, find people of similar likes and dislikes and are online generally to satisfy their automotive itch, because we don't have an unlimited gas allowance or a race track within five miles of our house... and we can't spend every other weekend at the shop getting a new set of shocks installed...

f.) People who generally think they're smarter than everyone else, and have to put down others just to prove they're above it all.

-----

Now, I don't always agree with danoff, but I respect him because while he may be an opinionated brick, he keeps the argument strictly within bounds and he doesn't allude to anyone's mother or sexual preference. He's a decent guy.



Nice attitude... how long are you planning on staying? Take note, this is the car talk forum... if you want to make personal jabs or jabs at people in general, take it to the rumble strip.

I think most people fall under E and F actually. I always find if funny though how some people label online regulars as "losers with no life or job." Not everyones job is busy 8 hours a day. I know mine is not. Actually I am working about 4 hours a day and then trying to kill off the other 4 hours any way I can and I don't have a dead in job. I have to be at work the full 8 hours incase I am needed but most of the time I am not. So, I usually read the paper, a book, surf the net, or work out. I have a degree and I am using it, and making good money doing it. My job just isn't exactly action packed so you guys get to put up with me.

My point for being here originally is because I searched for GT5 to see if there was one in the works. Then I saw the car section and thought it might be cool to chat with people who are into the same thing I am into. Turns out it is cool. I have been reading this forum for 4-5 months and posting for a few weeks. I have learned a ton so far and hopefully I have given something back. I think that's why most people are here.

Then there is option F which sadly there are a lot of people here in that catagory who think they know alot and really are just ignorant fools.

 

[YSSMAN]

A few things about where I stand on this issue:

1) I'm here because I like to talk about cars, read about cars, tinker with cars, etc. It is a good way to spend my time during the day instead of wasting my life in front of the television, doing drugs, or whatever.

2) People who say silly or stupid things bother me, and I will correct them if I see it, as I assume they would do to me. Some people get very angry when some folks do, and quite frankly, thats their own issue, not mine.

3) Differences in opinion and a place to disscuss them are the point of many of the threads. High-Test has a great example with his engine comparison threads, and they are a good way to get the thought process going. But, there are going to be arguements, thats just the way things happen. Often times I find myself in arguements with folks who cannot see both sides of the issue, or often times know little of one side, and more of the other... Of course I'm going to debate them, but only to prove my point.

4) Flame wars are going to happen, there isnt any way around it. I know for a fact that BX, Poverty, L4S, and myself have all been a part of some kind of flame war somewhere on this website... Maybe not on a level of Vietnamese napalm bombings, but a brush-fire nonetheless. When someone says something we disagree with, obviously we are going to say something... And when they dissagree, they will say something back. It is an escalation of opinions and tempers I suppose, and as males, we often times let our egos get in the way of our opinions. Its just what happens...

-----

Tolerance would be nice some times, but if we were all tolerant of eachother, we wouldnt have debates over our ideas and opinions. Sure, some people need to cool their jets (myself included) on particular subjects, but that can be said of anyone. No one is going to be completely right, and no one is going to be completely wrong either. But if we do not debate it, can we not attempt to prove eachother right or wrong?

 

[Poverty]

^^ Yep I agree with that. I do miss BX though even after our arguments, he helped to keep the car section lively.

 

[Master_Yoda]

AM i missing somthing? What happened to BX?
I'm confused...

Anyways... I tolerence is one thing.. and debating is another. Samthing with flame wars and debating. For me, doing stuff online is harder then in real life. Since im not to good with the keyboard.. But for me debates are educational, but here i havn't really seen debates, there always flame wars. There always throwing junk at eachothers statments, saying ****, and one person always comes up with a warning, or ban for a few weeks....(A vacation from GTP as Duke calls it)

To me it seems like alot of the older people think that just because there older, or have more posts, or been here longer, meens that they are higher in the ranks the someone elese. And i think that's what alot of the times screws things around... Like saying.. I'm older then you, i have 4,000 more posts then you, and i've been here a year longer.. I know more, i'm smarter, and stronger.. bigger and im just overal better then you... Which justs shows that there insecure about them self, and that then need to pick on someone that is a few years younger.

And everyon has there strenghs and weaknesses when it comes to subjects.
Like YSSMAN knows to much about cars (like me dad)..Famine just knows to much about everything, other then how to find a life outside GTP jk..
And those master with photoshop in GT4 poto area... And me.. well i know next to **** about cars.. I just like them. Infact i don't have my permot even yet, i should but don't.

And well i don't know if im still under the topic so i'm going to stop.. since i just didn't know waht to type next, after a few paragraphs of random thoughts that came to my head..

 

[McLaren]

I just find this thread extremely ironic thats all.

Some people need to learn to lighten up, this is the internet, go outside catch some sunlight, swing some o's, screw your missus senseless whatever floats your boat as long as it isnt whining on the internet like a little ***** whos just had their icecream stolen in the neighbourhood playground.

Taurine, you are one of the members I greatly respect for the fact that you do not take crap from others, yet still keeping your cool.

Your post has reminded me of why I respected you in the 1st place.

YSSMAN really hit the nail on the head, and said the same thing I would have.👍
Rep for both of you.

And now, it's 3:06AM, so I must really be getting back to sleep.