Lag vs Lap Time (Online)

  • Thread starter dexatron
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11
Canada
Smiths Falls, On
If you have a higher latency connection will this affect your lap times when racing? I ask this because I have many years of sim racing and some online (Live for Speed) but when I race online in GT6, everyone seems to walk away from me, I know there are good racers that I am up against, but it seems like I am braking earlier to make the corners and I accelerate slower than most of them, its kind of well, embarrassing!
 
Welcome to online racing. :)

It could be related to lag, but in my experience it has either been a tuned car or more likely in my case, just a better driver.

Try the online seasonal time trials. You are not actually online as you race them, so your times should be comparable. It should give you an indication as to how fast you are.
 
We all use the same cars, I know my driving needs improvement but it just doesn't seem that I should be a couple seconds a lap 'bad'. Like I said I get out accelerated and out braked, when I try to copy a leaders brake point I end up in the rhubarb. It could be that these guys are just that good... if I didn't have alot of driving experience I would agree, maybe my real world experience is hurting my online driving?

I'll give the online seasonal a try.

Thanks Tony!
 
You have to tune the car to get it around the grid faster. One tweak at a time, test it, see if it helps with faster times, then another tweak, see if it helps, so on and so forth.

I gained 7-second in the Senna Seasonal (F3) just by tuning the car. Still alot slower than many though...still need practice.

Good luck!

DrDetroit
 
I don't think we are allowed to tune the cars, but good point.. if people are tuning their cars that's one huge difference!
 
Yes, you can tune the cars, did it last night. Just can't set the ride height of the F3.

Check it out, will make a nice improvement.
 
Lag doesn't seem to be a big problem in lap times. It is most likely your brake settings and your peddle setup. Braking styles as well from person to person. If you can't match someone's braking points with all stock cars and end up in the grass, it is his braking style and bias. Not using abs can help with the right bias, too. You can use the bias to rotate the car into turns or use it to pull the front inner wheel in.
 
We have abs set to 1, and traction control to 0, I'm almost convinced it is my driving style and not so good gear, I'm going to experiment with brake bias and see if that can help!
 
Do some testing with the car in an online lobby (practice/ free run)
keep your brake bias' set very low so you can use the full pedal travel and only just lock the brakes.

brakes in GT are overly strong and even 3/4 is very easy to lock the wheels on SM or SH tyres on a lot of cars.
you may find that bias set to minimum will make you faster.
I've found that if you happen to dive late into corners, but as long as you don't lock up, you can still get the car around effectively and wash off speed with the steering.
If you lock the fronts though, it's all over and you end up in the bush.

So using as little braking power as possible until you can get a feel for your lockup thresholds is usually faster.
especially where online grip is lower too
 
In response to the latency affecting lap times, it wouldn't occur as it's your local machine counting the lap time so it's not affected by any latency.

I agree with everything else you've said as advice Robbks (as you're correct and a fellow Taswegian) but not with this comment in it's current form, i think it needed expanding.

especially where online grip is lower too

My expansion on this is that online mode doesn't have any lower grip level as a whole, the car just has further characteristics to consider when tyre wear/fuel is on. When enabled, it changes the overall weight of the car with fuel level and grip degredation of the tyres which in turn affects total grip levels over the course of laps.

If you disabled fuel/tyre wear when online, the lap times are same as single player mode from the testing I've done :)


Dexatron, maybe ask one of them for single player telemetry data to compare to your own lap time? see where they are faster etc?
Compare brake pedal position
throttle position
apex speeds etc?
 
I forget, can we select a fuel load to start with online?
or are we stuck with full tanks and un-scrubbed tyres.. :D
 
I forget, can we select a fuel load to start with online?
or are we stuck with full tanks and un-scrubbed tyres.. :D

Stuck with full tank of jungle juice and green tyres!

I really wish we could choose starting fuel load, would be good for strategy.
 
If you have a higher latency connection will this affect your lap times when racing? I ask this because I have many years of sim racing and some online (Live for Speed) but when I race online in GT6, everyone seems to walk away from me, I know there are good racers that I am up against, but it seems like I am braking earlier to make the corners and I accelerate slower than most of them, its kind of well, embarrassing!

Yes it does. Has nothing to do with brake setup. If you race totally stock against others, depending on your connection, you might notice that everybody seems to be braking much later than you.
That's a two sided issue. On one hand, your lag to the server is effectively causing you to feel less grip while braking, cornering and accelerating. On the other hand, the visual representation of other cars braking is also a bit delayed by your lag, so to you it looks like others are braking waaaay too late even if they're not. Has been like this since GT5, especially in crowded rooms. It is a very well documented issue, people have even been able to capture replays from players in a same room with and without the issue, with a substantial difference in frames and clock mismatches.
And before people go "but GT6 is is not client-server, it's peer-to-peer", GT6 is p2p but where the host acts as server and master clock. To test it, just compare the times you get when you're feeling low grip as a guest, with the times you get if you host the room.

There is a massive GT5 thread about all this, go check it. At a point was just insane where a lot of people in the room would feel almost no grip and start crashing all the time, it then stabilized as something only some higher latency players would feel.
 
Thanks for all the information, there's lots for me to work out here. That was exactly what I was experiencing - everyone was braking later, and out accelerating me, making we wonder if I could even drive. I'll do lots of testing in an online room and compare against the recorded laps I am seeing.
 
And before people go "but GT6 is is not client-server, it's peer-to-peer", GT6 is p2p but where the host acts as server and master clock. To test it, just compare the times you get when you're feeling low grip as a guest, with the times you get if you host the room.

I would have to agree with some parts of your statement, however disagree with other aspects.

As I have been host and guest countless times myself, in no way have i seen any differing effect in grip level or lap times based on being one or the other. I do agree that if someone else is experiencing latency/lag issues on their connection, you/everyone may see this interpreted as them braking very late into a corner, powering out of a corner at unbelievable speeds or just simply teleporting from one spot to another on track along the X Y and sometimes Z axis (Z axis teleporting is hilarious).

As for client server and peer to peer, GT6 has both these options available. The fixed room ownership is the star based networking system where as Unfixed is the mesh system (p2p) From my own back ground of networking and dealings with many many hours of GT6 online racing (and other online racing games on PC), your own PS3 powers the track, grip level and capacity of your own car based on set formulas based down from room settings and timed values of this (weather etc)

If your own lag was to play a part in lap times, you would notice this by your own car teleporting, stuttering and generally glitching around the track as you drive which I have never seen occur personally. The way I understand the system working in a mesh format, is that the information passed from one player to another is the cars values to determine current position on track, this changes obviously based on the race quality setting you have selected. The higher the settings the higher the rate of this information being sent to others (which would would make a lower connection player experience more visible issues with the other racers but not themselves) Even with the star network it is similar, however the "client" would send car position info etc to the host, which would then pass this information on to the other "clients". This is why they state the host in a fixed room should have high speed bandwidth, and also why when you choose this option, it automatically selects a lower race quality to maximize compatibility as the host is processing the bulk of the cars positions to everyone.

On one hand, your lag to the server is effectively causing you to feel less grip while braking, cornering and accelerating.

As mentioned above, I don't believe this to be entirely accurate. Your own console is controlling these values independently, the only information being passed from player to player is the car's position on track and a few other things related to track object positioning. If you refer to the manual about race quality "This setting governs the frequency with which driving information is sent and received over the network when racing online."

However, I'm not sure how comparing/quoting issues from GT5 helps in this circumstance, as the net code would of evolved for GT6 albeit may use a rough base coding on which it's derived from, but I do see the advice you are trying to give. If you have any relevant links in relation to the issues you state being relevant to the GT6 net code I'd be more than happy to read them to review any information I may have interpreted incorrectly.



Dexatron, If you want to supply me with the car and tire type you have been racing with, and the track in question (also room settings to match) I am more than happy to give it a run and compare times with you and share/data log information for comparison.

You would be surprised how much brake balance settings can affect the car. Are you running too much brake power (10/10) and diminishing braking effectiveness? Are you running too little (1/1) and not getting enough braking power? have you staggered it too much on the front (eg: 10/1) and experiencing inefficient braking? I don't do many "locked tune" races apart from occasional rentals so I don't know if they allow brake upgrade to racing to be done (have heard this can be done?) correct me if I'm wrong.

This reply was written over the course of a few hours so apologies for any double ups of statements.

Cheers

Funz
 
brakes in GT are overly strong and even 3/4 is very easy to lock the wheels on SM or SH tyres on a lot of cars.
Depends on your actual brake system. Load cell pedal can mean several notches higher brake balance.
 
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