Lancer Evo V. in Motegi 8-hours

Discussion in 'GT4 Tuning' started by Joker-GTBR, Sep 21, 2010.

  1. Joker-GTBR

    Joker-GTBR

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    I'm intending to drive the Motegi 8 hrs. in a Lancer Evo V. Everything but weight reduction or power upgrades. I've studied the pit-time tables in some section of this forum (can't rembmber) and i see some cars in the hardest grid pit only every 20-to-25 laps, and i can't drive my car well for more than twelve laps (using sports-hard tires) without losing the lead and see the leader opening a wide gap from me.

    Which is the problem? The car, the opponents, my driving style (although i try to save the most of my tires), or i'm not tuning the car well? How can i make my tires last as long as possible in this track?
     
  2. PF

    PF

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    As I understand it, AWD cars are not good for enduros largely dur to tyre wear. If you're aiming for A-spec points consider a S1/S2 setup, as only the fronts are calculated into Aspec numbers. [Edit: most AWD cars' tyres fail at front before rear so just use that strategy anyway, will help with wheelspin, corner exit etc].

    That said, I haven't done the race myself so might be talking bollocks.
     
  3. Joker-GTBR

    Joker-GTBR

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    Maybe if i change brake balance to a bigger value to rear can balance tyre wear. Also, changing torque balance with (i forgot the device name) can make the car endure better, although i've tested 100%-to-rear settings and the results still weren't satisfatory
     
  4. GTsail

    GTsail Premium

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    Is there a specific reason that you want to use the Mits Lancer Evo V?

    Do you have any other cars available?

    Like PF says, generally 4WD cars wear out their tires quicker than MR cars or FR cars. There's only so much tuning that can be done to improve the tire wear: reduce the car's weight, move the ballast away from the tires that show wear first, adjust the car's VCD, soften the car's suspension, lengthen the car's gearing, drive slower:yuck:

    However, the main reason that the Motegi race causes problems is the un-even strength of the AI competition. Some AI are just much faster than the others, and the fast cars also seem to have better tire wear.

    If you don't mind a little lineup search, try to find the following lineup which has cars fairly evenly balanced, and most don't go an unreasonable number of laps before they pit:

    NISMO GTR Road Going Version
    Spoon Integra Type R
    Spoon Civic Type R
    Trial Celica SS-II
    Tom's X540 Chaser

    Smallhorses has a nice write-up of a race against this lineup if you want more information:

    8 hour Motegi race using a Toyota Sprinter Trueno GT-Apex

    Your only other alternative is to drive fast enough to gain 20-25 seconds on each stint (maybe add a little horsepower, or do a stage 1 weight reduction), and just accept all the extra pit stops.

    Good luck,
    GTsail
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2010
  5. fbccars924

    fbccars924

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    I agree with PF and GTsail. Awd cars are not very good for eduro races due to the fact that your VCD and Diff's have to be set damn near perfect along with your suspension. Even the highly esteemed GTR's a subject to this. My suggestion if your on a budget is go to used cars and look for a Silvia k's s13 or 14 or a miata whichever suits your fancy or any similar priced FR cars. I suggest the miata and the silvia k's because they are potent bases for power and speed and they are very cheap on the game leaving money for mods and oil changes(if desired). My $.02
     
  6. Joker-GTBR

    Joker-GTBR

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    Although my favoutire stock car in the game is the Lancer V. A WRX Impreza would do better?
     
  7. Rotary Junkie

    Rotary Junkie Premium

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    A WRX would probably be worse due to the lack of fancy AYC.
     
  8. GTsail

    GTsail Premium

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    Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that you shouldn't drive the Mitsubishi Lancer Evo V if you like it. I'm just saying that since its 4WD, you're likely to get excessive tire wear when compared to most of the other AI cars in the Motegi endurance race.

    If your garage is limited to just a few cars, and you still want to drive the EVO, just give it some extra horsepower, and then you will be fast enough to make up for all the time lost in the pits.

    You might end up with a very entertaining race since you might be giving up the race lead every time you pit!:sick:

    Now since this is the tuning section, why don't you try both the EVO and whatever WRX you had in mind (perhaps the '98 Subaru Impreza Sedan WRX STI Ver V), and see which one seems to do better at Motegi against the same lineup, and then post each cars spec's so others can try them.

    Respectfully,
    GTsail
     
  9. Joker-GTBR

    Joker-GTBR

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    Even with the traction setting to full-rear i would be at disadvantage?
     
  10. Smallhorses

    Smallhorses Staff Emeritus

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    Here's another better report about this race against the same lineup mentioned before, and instructions on how to find it:

    200 A-Spec Motegi 8hrs Endurance (Stock Mitsubishi Lancer 1600 GSR Rally Car '74)

    Turned into a bit of a walkover in the end, but was a lot of fun.

    In terms of traction all the way to the rear, it may help a little, however, it's still a 4WD car, and as such, when modeled by PD is wont to wear it's front tyres much, much faster than its rears.

    You'll notice (this is the thread you were looking for by the way...)

    Complete AI Pit strategy guide for the 16 Endurance Races.

    that the FF cars in the Motegi 8hr field, which also suffer from awful front tyrewear, all pit at around 11 - 15 laps too, which puts them in your 4WD range.

    That said, if you've got a race suspension, brakes, transmission, VCD & LSD on there you'll have no trouble at all beating this AI field if you can find it as you should be miles faster than them with the stock 276HP and WPR of ~4.4 - 4.8 that a Lancer V Evo comes with, especially if I can manage it in a 160HP car!

    Steer clear of the heavy-hitters in the AI field such as the Opera cars and the Amuse and you should be alright. :tup:
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2010
  11. Joker-GTBR

    Joker-GTBR

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    If i increase TCS to the max, will tire wear be reduced (sacrificing some speed)? I've read somewhere in this forum most computer cars run with full TCS in endurances
     
  12. Rotary Junkie

    Rotary Junkie Premium

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    It may be reduced but driving an AWD or FWD car with TCS on whatsoever is the most headache inducing experience I know of.
     
  13. GTsail

    GTsail Premium

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    I'm not sure if Joker-GTBR is still working on this, but I thought I would give it a try and see what the tire wear looks like, so:

    I drive over to my friendly used car dealer in my Subaru WRX and pick up a silver Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution V GSR '98 (used, with about 27k miles on the odometer). I do not change the oil, so the EVO has 281 horsepower when I pick it up. I take it to the Mitsubishi dealer and have them add some non-power upgrades.

    I then take the EVO to Motegi and complete a couple of practice laps to give me a feel for the car. I find that it handles quite well, but after some trial and error, I change the car's suspension settings to the following:

    Tires: S1/S2
    Brakes: 5/6
    Springs: 8.0/8.5
    Ride: 118/118
    Bound: 3/5
    Rebound: 4/6
    Camber: 2.0/1.0
    Toe: 0/1
    Stab: 3/4
    Custom trans: auto # 7
    Twin-plate clutch
    Semi-racing flywheel
    Aids: 0/0/0
    VCD: +50 (to the rear)
    1.5 way ltd slip
    Ballast: 50 (+15 to the rear)

    I feel that the EVO is fast enough to take down a less than ideal lineup, so I don't search for Smallhorse's lineup but settle for lineup # 3, which has the following cars:

    Spoon S2000
    Mugen S2000
    Tom's X540 Chaser
    Trial Celica SS-II ZZT231
    Nismo GTR Road Going Version

    I pull up behind the above cars in 6th place and watch for the drop of the flag. The game says that if I win I will be awarded 103 A-spec points, so I'm off!

    On lap 1, I'm able to quickly pass the Nismo, the Celica and the Chaser. After a nice draft down the long straight, I out-brake and pass the Mugen S2000 going into turn eleven. On lap 3, I catch and pass the leading Spoon S2000. My tires go off by lap 11, so I pit at the end of the lap with a 12 second lead over the 2nd place Spoon.

    I exit the pits in 2nd place some 6-7 seconds behind the now leading Spoon S2000. The Celica pits on lap 14. My tires have warmed up by lap 14, so I run my fastest lap so far, a 2.15.140 and gain on the leading Spoon. On lap 20 I reach the rear bumper of the leading Spoon. The Chaser pits on lap 20. The Mugen S2000 pits on lap 21. On lap 22 I pass the 1st place Spoon as we both enter the pits for tires.

    On lap 27 I catch and pass the Celica to put it one lap down. I have stretched out a lead over the 2nd place Spoon S2000 of 14 seconds. The Nismo pits on lap 28. I'm fairly close, so I put the Nismo a lap down while its changing its tires as I begin lap 29. The Celica pits when I'm on lap 30. On lap 33 I reach the rear bumper of the Chaser as we brake for turn # 11 (the 90 degree turn), so I give it a light tap to get its attention, and then I enter the pits with a 20 second lead over the 2nd place Spoon S2000.

    As I exit the pits, the Spoon streams by and puts me back into 2nd place.:grumpy: For the next two laps I draft the Spoon as my tires warm up. On lap 35 I get a great draft from the Spoon down the long straight, so I out-brake the Spoon going into turn # 11, and take over 1st place in the race.:) On lap 38 I pass the Chaser and put it a lap down. During lap 39 the Chaser:cheers: holds up the Spoon S2000, so my lead grows to 12 seconds. I also set a new lap record on lap 39 of 2.14.649. The Chaser pits as I begin lap 40. The Mugen pits while I'm on lap 43. The Celica pits as I drive down the final long straight on lap 44. I pit at the end of lap 44 and get to wave to the Celica who is still in the pits. I pit with a 17 second lead over the 2nd place Spoon S2000. The Spoon also pits at the end of lap 44, so I never lose my lead.:)

    The Spoon S2000 must have an inexperienced pit crew because by the 1st checkpoint on lap 45 my lead has grown to 23 seconds. On lap 47, I catch and pass the Celica again. The two hour mark is reached when I am on lap 53 with a 40 second lead over the Spoon S2000. The Spoon gets held up behind the Celica for two full laps, so as I drive down the long straight at the end of lap 55 my lead has grown to 50 seconds. The Nismo pits at the end of this lap, as do I, so again I have company during my pit stop.

    I short-fill my fuel tank, so as I exit the pits on lap 56, the Nismo is just in front of me on the track. It only takes half a lap before I'm able to pass the Nismo who is driving slowly on cold tires. My pit crew informs me that my lead over the Spoon has shrunk to only 30 seconds as I begin lap 57. On lap 59 the Celica pits again. A bit further on, the Chaser also pits, so as I begin lap 60 I'm just behind the Chaser as it pulls out of the pits. I pass the Chaser as we go under the 1st over-pass on lap 60. The Spoon S2000 gets held up by the Nismo during lap 62, so my lead grows to 42 seconds. The Mugen S2000 pits as I negotiate the final chicane on lap 64, so I easily pass it as I cross the start/finish line. On lap 66 I'm able to reach the rear bumper of the Celica just before I enter the pits with a 45 second lead over the 2nd place Spoon.

    I exit the pits just in front of the Mugen who is able to un-lap himself as we go thru turn one. I was distracted by the news that the Spoon S2000 has just entered the pits again. I quickly re-pass tje Mugen on lap 67 as we go thru turn seven. The Spoon's pit stop was slow again, so I now see that my lead has grown to 50 seconds as I drive down the long straight. On lap 71 I pass the Celica just before the first over-pass. The Celica pits again when I'm on lap 74. From the map, it looks like the Spoon gets held up by the Chaser, so on lap 75 my lead has grown to 75 seconds. I pit at the end of lap 77 with a 80 second lead over the 2nd place Spoon.

    When I exit the pits on lap 78, my lead over the Spoon has shrunk to 60 seconds. However, that's as low as it goies since I can see that the Spoon is stuck behind a pack of cars fpr the next two laps. On lap 79 the Chaser pits. The Nismo pits on lap 82. The Nismo exits the pits just in front of me as I begin lap 83 so it gets dispatched in turn one. On lap 86 the Mugen pits. On lap 87 I pass the Chaser. The Celica pits again on lap 88, and its also time for me, so I pit as well with a 69 second lead over the Spoon. The Chaser does not, so it un-laps itself while I'm in the pits for new tires and fuel.

    As I begin lap 89, I can see that the Celica has come out of the pits in front of the Chaser, so they are together on the track and about 7 seconds in front of me. The Spoon also pits at the end of its 88th lap. The Spoon S2000 loses more time in the pits, so my lead grows to 78 seconds as I begin lap 90. I catch the Chaser (who is just behind the Celica) as I begin lap 91. I re-pass the Chaser in turn three, and pass the Celica in turn five on lap 91. The Chaser pits while I'm driving on lap 99. When I pit at the end of lap 99, my lead over the Spoon has grown to 95 seconds.

    As I begin lap 101, my lead over the Spoon has shrunk to 73 seconds. On lap 102 it looks like the Spoon is stuck behind another car, so I drive hard for the entire lap and set a new lap reconrd of 2.14.582 and extend my lead to 80 seconds. The Celica pits on lap 103. I reach the four hour mark on lap 105 with a 83 second lead over the Spoon S2000. The Mugen pits on lap 107. On lap 109 the Nismo pits, and I'm not that far behind, so as I begin lap 110, I pass the Nismo who is still in the pits. I pit at the end of lap 110 with a 90 second lead over the Spoon. While I'm in the pits, the Nismo drives by and un-laps itself, so I know I will just have to catch him again.

    As I begin lap 111, I estimate that the Nismo is about 6 seconds ahead of me, so I take up the chase. Near the end of the lap, I get notice that the Spoon has pitted. On lap 112, I catch and pass the Nismo by out-braking it going into turn three. I'm now 97 seconds ahead of the Spoon. By the end of lap 114, I catch up with a two-car pack which includes the Celica and the Chaser, so I follow both thru the final chicane. I pass the Chaser by out-braking it in turn one on lap 115. I do the same to the Celica by out-braking it in turn three. I've been pushing my EVO pretty hard for the last few laps, so as I begin lap 116 my lead over the Spoon has grown to 1 minute and 50 seconds. The Celica pits on lap 118. The Chaser pits on lap 120. I pit on lap 121 with a 1 minute and 55 second lead over the Spoon.

    When I exit the pits on lap 122, my lead has shrunk to 1 minute and 32 seconds. The Mugen pits just in front of me on lap 128, so I easily pass it. As I near the end of lap 132, the Celica pits from just in front of me. I follow the Celica into the pits myself for new tires and fuel. The Spoon S2000 has been stuck behind the Nismo/Chaser pack, so I've stretched out my lead to 1 minute and 54 seconds.

    The Spoon pits on lap 133. On lap 134 I pass the Celica as I go under the 1st over-pass. As I begin lap 135 my lead over the Spoon has grown to 2 minutes and 3 seconds. The Nismo pits on lap 136. On lap 138 I catch and pass the Nismo going into turn three. I reach the back bumper of the Spoon S2000 on lap 139, just before we go under the 2nd over-pass. Just ahead, the Chaser enters the pits. I follow the Spoon thru the final chicane and we both lap the Chaser before it exits the pits. I draft behind the Spoon for most of lap 140 and then out-brake the Spoon at the end of the long straight (turn eleven) to put the Spoon 1 lap down!! I pit at the end of lap 143 and watch the Spoon drive by and un-lap itself.

    When I exit the pits, I'm about 15 seconds behind the Spoon. On lap 147 the Celica pits again. I push hard on lap 147 and set a new lap reconrd of 2.14.516. After such a good lap I've gained appreciably on the Spoon, so I can now sometimes see the Spoon just before it rounds a corner in the distance. I continue to drive hard and set another lap record of 2.14.261 on lap 149. The Mugen pits on lap 151. On lap 153 I've reached the rear bumper of the Spoon S2000 who is just behind the Celica. On lap 154 I pass the Spoon and put it a lap down by out-braking it going into turn three. I'm now just behind the Celica and follow it closely for the rest of the lap, and pit at the end of lap 154. The Spoon S2000 continues on, and un-laps itself again, but I'm not worried since it should pit at the end of its 154th lap.

    The Spoon pits at the end of its 154th lap as expected, so I drive on past and put the Spoon a full lap down. On lap 159 I pass the Celica again. A bit later on the same lap I'm informed that the Chaser is pitting as well. The six hour mark is reached on lap 157. The Celica pits again on lap 162, and a bit later on the same lap I catch and lap the Chaser again. The Nismo pits on lap 163. The Nismo comes out of the pits about 2 seconds in front of me on lap 164. It takes me until turn five before I'm able to pass the Nismo again. Looking at the track map, I seem to have built up about a 30 second lead over the Spoon, so its time to let B-spec Bob have some fun (I know, I know, it will cause me to lose my 103 points, its just that Bob has been on the bench for 3 1/2 months and he needs some seat time). I pull into the pits at the end of lap 165, install S2/S3 tires (to give Bob some help), and get out of the EVO so B-spec Bob can get in a few laps. While Bob is getting behind the wheel, both the Chaser and the Nismo un-lap themselves.

    Once Bob gets underway on lap 166, I can see that the Spoon is about 5-6 seconds behind my EVO, and is gaining ground!! By lap 169 the Spoon is right on Bob's back bumper!! The good news is that Bob has reached the Chaser's rear bumper, so we now have a 3-car pack! On lap 170 Bob actually passes the Chaser in turn # nine!! Bob is able to pull away from the Spoon by about 3 seconds on lap 171 since the Spoon gets stuck behind the Chaser. Bob's best lap is about a 2m20sec lap. On lap 172 the Spoon makes a clean pass on the Chaser going into turn number five. The Mugen pits on this lap as well. By lap 173 Bob has actually caught up with the Nismo. However, the Spoon has also caught up with Bob, so we've got another nice 3-car pack again. On lap 174 the Spoon out-brakes Bob going into turn number five and un-laps itself. Three turns later the Spoon passes the Nismo as well. On lap 175 Bob redeems himself and passes the Nismo going into turn one. The Celica pits on lap 176. By lap 177, the EVO's tires are all orange, with the left side a darker orange (both front and rear), so I get ready to take over the EVO again. The Spoon S2000 pits at the end of lap 177 with about a 10 second lead over Bob in my EVO, so Bob follows the Spoon into the pits. I change the tires back to S1/S2's and get behind the wheel.

    On lap 179, I catch and pass the Chaser. The Chaser pits again as I begin lap 180. About half-way thru lap 180, I'm able to catch the Spoon S2000, so I get a good draft down the long straight and out-brake the Spoon going into turn eleven, and put the Spoon one lap down again. On lap 182, I catch and pass the Nismo again. On lap 187 I pass the Celica again. I pit on lap 188 for fuel and tires which allows the Spoon to un-lap himself by about 4 seconds.

    The Nismo pits on lap 190. Up ahead on lap 190, I see that the Spoon has caught the Celica, just as I latch on to the Spoon's rear bumper, so we create another 3-car pack. We both get a good draft down the long straight, and we both pass the Celica in turn eleven. The Celica takes the hint that its tires are shot, so it pits just after we both pass it. On lap 191, I pass the Spoon under braking for turn number five. Wanting to increase my lead over the Spoon, I push hard on lap 192 and set a new lap record of 2.14.037. The Mugen pits on lap 193. Up ahead, I see that I'm gaining on the Mugen, so I continue to drive hard and set another lap record of 2.13.858 on lap 195. On lap 196 I get a draft behind the Mugen and pass it going into turn eleven. By the end of lap 199 I've re-built my lead over the Spoon to about 22 seconds, so its time to pit again and let Bob drive the final stint. I get my pit crew to install S2/S3 tires again and put B-spec Bob behind the wheel of my EVO. While I'm in the pits the Mugen drives by and un-laps itself.

    The Spoon S2000 follows me into the pits, so as B-spec Bob begins lap 200, Bob has a nice lead for his final stint. The Chaser pits on lap 200, so Bob passes him again as lap 201 begins. The Celica pits again on lap 205. The Spoon gets stuck behind the Chaser for two laps, and does not get by until lap 206, so Bob's lead is still about 20 seconds at this point. Bob crosses the finish line after 208 laps to the cheers of his adoring fans.

    Finishing order:
    1st: Mitsubishi EVO V GSR '98 (me and Bob) 208 laps
    2nd: Spoon S2000 '00 --- 1 lap and 12 seconds behind
    3rd: Mugen S2000 '00 --- 2 and 3/4 laps behind
    4th: Nismo GTR Road Going -- 6 and 3/4 laps behind
    5th: Tom's X540 Chaser --- 7 and 1/4 laps behind
    6th: Trial Celica SS-II --- 8 and 3/4 laps behind

    Tire wear notes:
    I need to pit every 11 laps with a very orange left front tire (the rear tires are still lightly green)
    The Spoon S2000 seems to be able to get 22 laps on each stint.
    The Mugen S2000 pits every 21 laps and is significantly slower than me, so it won't be a challenger
    The Nismo pits every 27 laps and is also significantly slower than me
    Trial Celica and Tom's Chaser - who cares? they will get lapped repeatedly.

    B-spec Bob can get 12 good laps out of S2/S3 tires, and his tire wear is very even front to rear on these tires. Like me, Bob wears out the left side tires faster than the right side tires, which is due to the nature of the Motegi track (clock-wise laps).

    Happy racing!
    GTsail
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2010
  14. Joker-GTBR

    Joker-GTBR

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    514
    Thanks, man! I'll test these settings and see if changing ballast further to the rear will give a better tire wear balance
     
  15. Joker-GTBR

    Joker-GTBR

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    514
    Racing the 8hours endurance, with 2 hours, i'm having a 1:30 lead over the Spoon S2000. The only modification i've made to GTsail290's setup was changing the ballast balance to full rear. My best lap currently is a 2:13.437, IMO a quite impressive performance for my first endurance run without any assists. These settings made the car extremely docile and easy to drive, even for someone who just started to drive unassisted. Average lap time varies between 2:13.5 and 2:15.0. I just past the command to the B-spec because i need a shower
     
  16. Joker-GTBR

    Joker-GTBR

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    Finished the 8-hours race. Finished 20 seconds ahead of the Spoon S2000. It could be higher, but, what man builds, B-spec destroys
     
  17. DK

    DK Premium

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    You should have paused instead of handing it over to B-Spec Bob.
     
  18. GTsail

    GTsail Premium

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    Very nice!

    With the ballast moved even further to the rear, were you able to get 12 lap stints?

    Now that you are used to driving the Motegi track, will you try the race with another car in 200 point tune?

    Respectfully,
    GTsail