Lancer odd behaviour Race A - ABS

[IAMDOODLEBUG]

After a door bashing Interlagos 10 lapper I thought I'd have a crack at setting a quali time for Race A - Kyoto in the Lancer. My default settings are ABS on, everything else off bar TCS depending on car. I literally reached a plateau around 2 secs behind the top time and couldn't for the life of me figure out where any time could be gained easily. In an effort to see what could be gained with settings, I turned ABS off. This resulted in some very odd behaviour, as in, suddenly the car accelerated more quickly but turned like a pig. I easily took half a second away by adjusting my lines to the "new" physics. Something is definitely not right - can anybody else confirm the odd behaviour? Regardless, kudos to the top times as it's no mean feat!

 

[SkengD]

interesting find , ill give this a try in the future

 

[Tou2istTrophy]

This was found a very long time ago. Can't believe PD hasn't done anything....
Let's hope this next patch is action packed with more bug fixes than we can handle!

 

[ROCKET JOE]

After a door bashing Interlagos 10 lapper I thought I'd have a crack at setting a quali time for Race A - Kyoto in the Lancer. My default settings are ABS on, everything else off bar TCS depending on car. I literally reached a plateau around 2 secs behind the top time and couldn't for the life of me figure out where any time could be gained easily. In an effort to see what could be gained with settings, I turned ABS off. This resulted in some very odd behaviour, as in, suddenly the car accelerated more quickly but turned like a pig. I easily took half a second away by adjusting my lines to the "new" physics. Something is definitely not right - can anybody else confirm the odd behaviour? Regardless, kudos to the top times as it's no mean feat!

It's been known before. The car doesn't turn like a pig but you have to handle braking without assist.
All in all it gave me 7 tenths on Miyabi .

 

[phil_75]

The Lancer has always been "different" i think it has something to do with the yaw control.
Movement of the steering slows acceleration, the more you turn the less it accelerates.
In BoP races you can't turn it off or change for regular LSD.

 

[IAMDOODLEBUG]

It's been known before. The car doesn't turn like a pig but you have to handle braking without assist.
All in all it gave me 7 tenths on Miyabi .

It's really quite an odd behaviour! My challenge with turning in probably came about from the additional speed I was carrying once ABS was off. 7 tenths is quite a margin on such a small track! Careful what you claim, the pitchfork carrying anti-corner cutters will be at your door soon with a controversial thread about fair play

 

[ROCKET JOE]

It's really quite an odd behaviour! My challenge with turning in probably came about from the additional speed I was carrying once ABS was off. 7 tenths is quite a margin on such a small track! Careful what you claim, the pitchfork carrying anti-corner cutters will be at your door soon with a controversial thread about fair play

Two wheels on the curbs !!! ... nothing especially new .

 

[Spurgy 777]

@VFOURMAX1 @Voodoovaj I’ll put this in the relevant thread.

The same PD contact that sent a PM about the grip bug was asked about the Lancer and said it wasn’t a bug. Unfortunately that is all they could say so I have no idea why or how it works, just thought it would be useful information for people to know so that no one thinks switching ABS off is exploiting a bug in the game.

Bit of a disclaimer, I did ask first if this could be posted publicly. 👍

 

[ROCKET JOE]

@VFOURMAX1 @Voodoovaj I’ll put this in the relevant thread.

The same PD contact that sent a PM about the grip bug was asked about the Lancer and said it wasn’t a bug. Unfortunately that is all they could say so I have no idea why or how it works, just thought it would be useful information for people to know so that no one thinks switching ABS off is exploiting a bug in the game.

Bit of a disclaimer, I did ask first if this could be posted publicly. 👍

You said you don't know why or how it works ... but does that mean, there could be a technical reason IRL so the real Lancer behaves the same ?

 

[Spurgy 777]

You said you don't know why or how it works ... but does that mean, there's could be a technical reason IRL so the real Lancer behaves the same ?

Possibly, as I said I have no idea why the in game car does what it does, I assume there is a good reason for it that is based on reality.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

@VFOURMAX1 @Voodoovaj I’ll put this in the relevant thread.

The same PD contact that sent a PM about the grip bug was asked about the Lancer and said it wasn’t a bug. Unfortunately that is all they could say so I have no idea why or how it works, just thought it would be useful information for people to know so that no one thinks switching ABS off is exploiting a bug in the game.

Bit of a disclaimer, I did ask first if this could be posted publicly. 👍

Not questioning what you were told, only the validity of the information you were given.

Sort of like saying putting lipstick on a pig makes it not be a pig in my opinion.

Abs not being an active system at any time other than when the braking system is being activated and brakes applied would in no way affect any other aspect of the cars performance from a running or actual speed capability with the exception of using abs versus not using abs could change the braking and throttle application points of a corner entering the straight which then could affect the overall speed as the car would be accelerating for a longer period of time.

Other than that difference ABS absolutely would not affect any other performance aspects of the cars remaining systems.

When this game was released it appeared to although be low on initial content to be very well polished and a basically bug free well polished game which offset the initial low included content.

As this game has now been out several months there are more and more examples where the game actually has many issues and bugs and many of its systems are actually broken and not doing as good of a job in game as initially thought.

As to the issues I am seeing with this current title I would be hesitant to buy future titles at launch anyway of the franchise and prior to this I have owned all the major titles in this franchise since the PS1 days.

Prior to this release I would never think twice about buying a GT game on day 1.

 

[ROCKET JOE]

Not necessarily the best time for a joke, but ... could it be a bug in the real car ?

 

[sabamber]

AYC diff uses ABS sensors.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

AYC diff uses ABS sensors

But if the same sensors were used for;
1.) dual duty for ABS to prevent wheel lock up under braking
2.) TCS or limited slip sensor to prevent or lessen wheel spin or traction loss

Then those sensors would perform function 1 under brake pedal application controlling applied braking pressure to the calipers to prevent wheel lock up.

Then the sensors would perform a different task of sending a signal to the diff to control traction loss or wheelspin.

So the sensors even if the same sensors would be applying signals concerning wheel spin or lock up to completely different systems at different times controlling exact opposite operations of acceleration or braking.

I cannot see how even though possibly being connected to one central on board computer that one function of the sensor would would affect the other function in any way.

 

[IAMDOODLEBUG]

@VFOURMAX1 @Voodoovaj I’ll put this in the relevant thread.

The same PD contact that sent a PM about the grip bug was asked about the Lancer and said it wasn’t a bug. Unfortunately that is all they could say so I have no idea why or how it works, just thought it would be useful information for people to know so that no one thinks switching ABS off is exploiting a bug in the game.

Bit of a disclaimer, I did ask first if this could be posted publicly. 👍

It seems odd to be an intentional design decision. I'm wondering if it also affects the gr3-4 variants - if it does then it could surely throw bop out. May give it a go to see what I can uncover...

 

[Spurgy 777]

It seems odd to be an intentional design decision. I'm wondering if it also affects the gr3-4 variants - if it does then it could surely throw bop out. May give it a go to see what I can uncover...

As far as I'm aware it's the only car that does it, at least to noticeable degree, but then I barely ever run ABS off so I suppose I wouldn't know.

 

[IAMDOODLEBUG]

As far as I'm aware it's the only car that does it, at least to noticeable degree, but then I barely ever run ABS off so I suppose I wouldn't know.

Likewise, ABS off in GTS is a death wish unless you a) have fully adjustable pedals outside of in-game settings or b) enjoy using half of the travel of your brake pedal! Really wish they'd give us at least simplistic adjustments to the pedals... Back on topic, I will test the gr4 lancer around Brands (in between using the M4 to hopefully reach DR S tonight!) and see what effect it has on times.

 

[Spurgy 777]

Likewise, ABS off in GTS is a death wish unless you a) have fully adjustable pedals outside of in-game settings or b) enjoy using half of the travel of your brake pedal! Really wish they'd give us at least simplistic adjustments to the pedals... Back on topic, I will test the gr4 lancer around Brands (in between using the M4 to hopefully reach DR S tonight!) and see what effect it has on times.

Better to test at Northern Isle, you are just looking for extra straight line speed after all.

 

[IAMDOODLEBUG]

Better to test at Northern Isle, you are just looking for extra straight line speed after all.

True, I always over complicate matters

 

[phil_75]

But if the same sensors were used for;
1.) dual duty for ABS to prevent wheel lock up under braking
2.) TCS or limited slip sensor to prevent or lessen wheel spin or traction loss

Then those sensors would perform function 1 under brake pedal application controlling applied braking pressure to the calipers to prevent wheel lock up.

Then the sensors would perform a different task of sending a signal to the diff to control traction loss or wheelspin.

So the sensors even if the same sensors would be applying signals concerning wheel spin or lock up to completely different systems at different times controlling exact opposite operations of acceleration or braking.

I cannot see how even though possibly being connected to one central on board computer that one function of the sensor would would affect the other function in any way.

Easy to test.
Take Lancer road car on track and see the difference with Active YAW on and off (regular LSD)

 

[VFOURMAX1]

Easy to test.
Take Lancer road car on track and see the difference with Active YAW on and off (regular LSD)

Hard to take a real life car you do not own and test the function the of whether using the same sensor to control 2 different functions is an issue or not that would carry over into the in games cars performance.

How such is implemented in the game is through coding only, no actual sensors required so will not answer of a possible reason that the car in game exhibits the trait it does.

 

[nuu1212]

Guys, this is more than ridiculous.
It is quite possible that the real car has settings that influence top speed (may it be ABS or YAW or LSD or TCS or whatever)
But this just does not matter here!
The in-game setting of ABS has nothing to to with the real car. It is not the Evo's ABS. The EVO has no default/weak/off settings.
=>Conclusion: The in-game setting must never have any effect on top speed! Period.

EDIT: Of course they say it is not a Bug. Microsoft also tells me the annoying features (of Visual Studio) I reported are not a bug. This is an annoying feature.

 

[sabamber]

Most modern DSC/TCS systems use the ABS sensors together with other sensors to perform their function. ABS sensors are very versatile things.

I agree it's very odd for it to be implemented in such a way here.

 

[FKAustria1911]

If it had a reason to legitimately be faster wouldn't the game then need to show a speed difference at the speedometer? I checked a replay of the guys running behind me with ABS on and they were showing similar speeds than I had, but they lost at least 2/10th on the start/finish straight on Miyabi alone (and that's with the draft!). Through the fast left/right combination they even had a higher speed according to the speedometer while easily going through it full speed, while with ABS off and actually showing a bit lower speed through the left/right it was extremely hard to get through it without lifting the throttle a bit.
To me this more seems like some hidden boost or something.