Lap 1 incident at Hockenheim

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Matrixhasu77

Matrixhasu77

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Well, I read in my local paper that because of the Lap 1 incident at Hockenheim, Ralf Schumacher will be dropped 10 grid positions at his next race.

The article can be found here: Crash paves way for Montoya

I'm not sure if I entirely agree with it. I think that Ralf was just trying to protect his line going into turn 1 as he stated, but may not have realized that Rubens was so close or that Kimi had gotten such a good start off the line.

What do you think about all this?

NOTE: I would have posted the article here but GTP decided to eat my first post.
 
i agree whit u but Ralf could of have been more carful... a single touch and an error at 200 sumthing miles and hour could end up beiing fatal (ex the idiot that caused Gv's death...)
 
Originally posted by Mr Devil
i agree whit u but Ralf could of have been more carful... a single touch and an error at 200 sumthing miles and hour could end up beiing fatal (ex the idiot that caused Gv's death...)
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Uh - that 'idiot' was Jochen Mass. You might want to look into his career.

That said, Ralf did initiate the contact, it was his movement out that started the accident. Mind you, I think Kimi and Reubens would probably still have touched if Ralf hadn't jinked - I don't know what Kimi was thinking.
 
Originally posted by vat_man
Uh - that 'idiot' was Jochen Mass. You might want to look into his career.

That said, Ralf did initiate the contact, it was his movement out that started the accident. Mind you, I think Kimi and Reubens would probably still have touched if Ralf hadn't jinked - I don't know what Kimi was thinking.
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I think it was a 50/50 accident. Kimi has in my opinion always made the move before thinking of the consequences e.g. at Spa last year he went thru Eau Rouge when someone had blown up on the exit and the track was covered in smoke. All the bonehead commentators were wetting themselves with excitement, awed at his mastery. What is there had been debris or a car in the middle of all the smoke?

Same case here. He knew to make the move was risking his car and another, and he would never have made it stick around the outside, so I think he is as much to blame as Ralf.

Ps you cant blame rubi for the poor start. Thats the sucky launch control ferrari have...
 
I can't believe I missed it!

My friend forgot to record it on time, and only managed to get the last 40 minutes of the race :odd: I only managed to see little maybe 3 second shots of it near the end. It looked terrible, Kimi span out so bad, and his suspension looked completely destroyed.

Can you guys tell me what happened?
 
Ralf had been penalised 10 spots for the next GP, great news considering the layout of Hungary :rolleyes:

IMO, Rubens got a poor start, Kimi a great one, Ralf not so good moved over on RB who was squeezed into Kimi
You know the rest, still a big hit into the corner of the tyre barriers, glad he is OK
 
Well I wouldn't be too hard on Ralf re that incident. I mean, he was coming over to bloke Kimi, no? And Rubens could have braked/let off the gas and slipped behind Ralf, and gotten Kimi in the corner, also no?

So I reckon the incident was Rubens's fault, personally. Nothing against the bloke, he's a great racer, but he should have backed off.
 
I too don't see the blame as being entirely at Ralf's door. Also, Vat_Man, if Kimi had got that good a start and hadn't gone up the outside of Rubens, then he wouldn't be a racing driver.

No, Rubens should have stuck to his line more, because it was up to him to put the frighteners on Ralf. Ralf wouldn't have known (probably) where Kimi was, so it was Rubens' responsibility to ensure that there was enough room, and he should have done that by muscling Ralf, not by meekly moving across the track in a line parallel to that being taken by Ralf.

Mike Rotch raises a good point - the Ferrari launch control system is rather poor.
 
Originally posted by GilesGuthrie
Ralf wouldn't have known (probably) where Kimi was, so it was Rubens' responsibility to ensure that there was enough room,
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Yeah that was the poinit I was trying to make above, I don't believe Ralf's mirrors would've been able to project an image of Kimi into his brain to let him know not to go that way.

Part of the blame definitely goes to Ralf, but as above, I believe it was Rubens' responsibility to back off, and attack at the corner.
 
Originally posted by SandStorm
Yeah that was the poinit I was trying to make above, I don't believe Ralf's mirrors would've been able to project an image of Kimi into his brain to let him know not to go that way.

Part of the blame definitely goes to Ralf, but as above, I believe it was Rubens' responsibility to back off, and attack at the corner.
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I must disagree. You cant expect rubens to "backoff" just because maybe, possibly there might be an accident. He is a racing driver, and he is gonna attack a racer he perceives as slower. The same goes for kimi, but the onous was on kimi to realise an accident was entirely possible - he was trying to overtake 2 cars, with himself nearly on the grass.

Not smart in my book

PS nice holdens SandStorm :D
 
Mmm - having had another chance to look at it, I think Kimi was innocent - if you watch the 'from behind' shot, there was a clear lane along side Reuben, and there was a good half a car width between the cars. Kimki was also clearly alongside, too, before Reuben moved over - which was in response to Ralf moving over.
 
having re-watched it again.........i think it was just one of those things...a racing accident, with a rather unfair outcome to ralf. seems like the marshalls have little else to do these days besides "review race incidents" and slap penalties on people.

AND

Oh yes, firman was a bit of a ponse going into frentzen like that. I mean, did he think the blue smoke at the front of the field was someone in the crowd burning donald ducks shirt:confused:
 
Maybe he thought it was the funeral pyre of the Vodafone lawsuit?

I've said it before, and I'll say it again.

Firman = Rubbish.
 
I thought that the penalty they have given Ralf as very harsh, because he had no idea that Kimi was the other side of Rubens, so he was leaving enough room for only 1 car to stay on the track, not 2. So i felt it was just a racing incident.
 
i dont belive ralf will demoted 10 places at the next race when it wasn t all his fault. I think williams should protest and i hope montoya wins the chapionship and williams for the constructers.
 
Williams ar appealing the penalty. However, history suggests that the FIA does not look too kindly upon appealed penalties.

I don't know what the rules on this are, but if I were Ralf, I would "accidentally" throw my car off during qualifying 2 at Hungary. Then he can start from the pit lane with a full tank of gas and 1-stop it. Should rescue some points going that way.
 
Originally posted by GilesGuthrie
Williams ar appealing the penalty. However, history suggests that the FIA does not look too kindly upon appealed penalties.

I don't know what the rules on this are, but if I were Ralf, I would "accidentally" throw my car off during qualifying 2 at Hungary. Then he can start from the pit lane with a full tank of gas and 1-stop it. Should rescue some points going that way.
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Have you ever looked into a career as a race engineer? :)
 
It was simply a racing incident, there is no way Ralf could have seen Kimi coming up the outside of Rubens and in Kimi's defence he was past Rubens when they touched. He had every right to go for the gap, it was that, run into the back of Rubens or ease off and be swamped by the pack. And it doesn't matter whether Kimi was nearly on the grass or not, as long as he's between the 2 white lines it's perfectly legitimate, unlike Schumachers pass on Trulli! Bring back gravel traps!
Another part of the accident is that the Michelin runners appear to have figured out that they can better launch than the Bridgestone runners at low temperatures, hence Montoya putting in a very slow formation lap and both Ferraris getting a bad start. I think from now every formation lap with a Michelin car on pole will be very slow indeed.

Mr Devil, the incident was nowhere near 200+ mph and accidents are exactly that, accidents. no-one knows they're going to happen. For someone who's such a big fan of the Villenueves you seem incapable of spelling their name right in your signature.
 
OMG!!! Ok im gonna suicide myself know (im so ashamed of myself...) lol n-e-wayz (sry i type too fast) i dint mean that ralf caused the accident on purpose i meant that sometimes u gotta be more carefull... N-e-wayz afther reviewing the tape i see that its not all his fault... FAULT! sry im still in the Tennis masters mood... By the way i agrr whit giles whit the If he hadnt tryed to pass on the outside he would of been a F1 pilot... u gotta try it... if u dont then yull go nowhere!
 
Originally posted by GilesGuthrie
Williams ar appealing the penalty. However, history suggests that the FIA does not look too kindly upon appealed penalties.

I don't know what the rules on this are, but if I were Ralf, I would "accidentally" throw my car off during qualifying 2 at Hungary. Then he can start from the pit lane with a full tank of gas and 1-stop it. Should rescue some points going that way.
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Curious how that little wording change for the penalties has made such a difference, isn't it - not that I think Williams would actually run Gene in place of Ralf in such circumstances, even if the rule that saw Frentzen into the Sauber last year at Indy applied.

I think the penalty's gone close to costing him the championship. If Michael or Juan Pablo win and he only comes up with 2 or 3 points at Hungary, he's stuffed. No wonder Williams are appealing - mind you, Ralf's probably funding the appeal! :lol:

Hopefully it won't turn out like Irvine's did after Brazil in 1994.
 
I think Ralf even said himself "I wasnt paying any attention to the other cars" or at least something like that

I wouldnt like to see him get penalised as it would detract from a 4 way fight for the championship, with Ralf copping the penalty more than likely it will be a 3 way go for the title
 
Originally posted by GilesGuthrie
Maybe he thought it was the funeral pyre of the Vodafone lawsuit?

I've said it before, and I'll say it again.

Firman = Rubbish.
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:cheers:


Mr Devil, please try spell correctly. It is annyng tryng tto read wht you wrte...
 
Originally posted by kristof
For someone who's such a big fan of the Villenueves you seem incapable of spelling their name right in your signature.
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Villeneuve is actually spelled Villeneuve, not Villenueve as you spelled it kristof.

:D
 
I, like I said before, didn't really get to see the incident too well, but I think this was merely another racing accident that could happen anytime.

It occured off the first turn, which like every other race is always the most crowded and everytime I watch the first turn, I'm always expecting an accident to happen. Just look out how close every single car always gets. Just about everytime, a car will get pushed off track. But those incidents are usually occuring in the back with the "lesser" drivers who will back off easier.. But this time, it happened to three "hotheads."(?) When you take three people of this respect and put them in an event like this. All three of them are bound to push until the other(s) back down because that is racing. But because it occured to these three, neither would back down. Rubens could of easily stayed where he was but that's not what he's paid to do. It just so happened that all three of them had a good start and they just happened to get so close. Something like this is bound to happen eventually.

I think the penalty against Ralf is much too drastic. I mean, 10 spots?! Common now.. Haha, I never thought of that Giles. I wouldn't be surprised if they actually did do that. :)
 
Originally posted by Sharkey
Villeneuve is actually spelled Villeneuve, not Villenueve as you spelled it kristof.

:D
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Hehehehe fair enough, had trouble with the positioning of the e and the u! Then again I don't idolise them!
 
Originally posted by kristof
And it doesn't matter whether Kimi was nearly on the grass or not, as long as he's between the 2 white lines it's perfectly legitimate, unlike Schumachers pass on Trulli! Bring back gravel traps!
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What was Michael supposed to do? Ram into Trulli and have everyone remember Jerez 97? Trulli went wide to block off Michael. With the speed Michael had I dont think he had a choice but to go even further on the outside like he did. If he would have slowed down, Coulthard was right behind and waiting to get by. And Trulli is one of the worst drivers to pass. Unless the person passing is much much faster than he is, he can be quite a handful.
 

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