Leaderboards and Matchmaking (Based on Input Device)

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by S0UND, Oct 16, 2019.

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Would you like to see Input-Based Matchmaking in more racing games?

  1. Yes

    44.2%
  2. No

    55.8%
  1. S0UND

    S0UND

    Messages:
    5
    After playing the Modern Warfare Beta and seeing how their matchmaking system matches players of all 3 platforms up based on their input device (Controller or Mouse & Keyboard), i think a similar system would be cool in a game like GT Sport with Controllers and Wheels.

    I think most of us would agree that we're able to achieve better lap times with our wheels, but i do still enjoy playing with a controller on some racing games. (I tend not to do so on GT Sport though because i can't compete at the same level and the game will still match me up based on my best lap time that i previously achieved with the wheel a couple days before.)

    So does anyone think it would be a good idea to have 2 seperate qualifying lap times for all the daily races, 1 for wheels and 1 for controllers?

    I think it would give controller users a better indication of how good they are against other players who don't have a superior input device - and would make the game more accessible to those who don't want to spend hundreds on a wheel to compete at the very top - it would create a seperate "league" of players.
     
  2. instinct808

    instinct808

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    138
    Location:
    Poland
    not separated
    but it should show what people use
     
  3. breeminator

    breeminator

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    664
    Re the wheel being superior, when I've been in practice lobbies with drivers rated around 75k, I have on several occasions watched the replay from their car and been amazed at how jerky and unsmooth their driving is. Is this because they're using a controller, or am I seeing their driving differently to how it really is due to network latency?
     
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  4. Guffaluff

    Guffaluff

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    941
    Location:
    Iceland
    This :) PCars 2 does this and it's pretty nice to see.

    Hard to say for sure, but probably just the netcode.
     
  5. S0UND

    S0UND

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    5
    What about leaderboards? It would be interesting to see if any of the top 10 qualifying laps are done with controllers.

    RE:It should show what people use, it would also be cool to know WHICH wheels they're using (G29, T500 etc.) - to see if the game caters to a soecific type of wheel over another
     
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  6. GT5Power

    GT5Power

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    Greece
    That's definitely the latency. It happens in every replay with every car. :)

    About controller vs. wheel, as a controller user I can say that the wheel's advantage in raw speed is negligible, if there is one at all. Tire wear is where the wheel clearly beats the controller, although experienced controller players can still negate most of that deficit.
     
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  7. Vegard

    Vegard

    Messages:
    2,889
    Location:
    Norway
    That's my experience as well. Driving style and brake balance adjustment are more important than input device.
     
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  8. pantherjag

    pantherjag

    Messages:
    241
    I dont think there is any need for separate matchmaking but something that tells people what device other players are using would be good.

    I use a wheel but on occasion I use the DS4 and I'm surprised how close I get to my wheel times quite quickly particularly when I look at the optimal. Consistency is the issue for me but that would come with time if I put the effort in.

    One thing I'm exploring is if it's easier to drive in dirty air with the DS4 than a wheel. I have a suspicion it is tbh but I need to do more testing.
     
  9. golfer07840

    golfer07840

    Messages:
    561
    Location:
    United States
    It would depend on the type of jerky they are being. I was in Race A last night and a TT literally went from last to first in a blink of an eye on my screen. It was almost like they went into hyperspace. Obviously, that's lag. And then you have the usual, bouncing from side to side, which is also lag.

    However, I can spot a controller user a mile away. First off, a lot of them are flashing their high beams constantly and also they just don't turn as smoothly and they tend to stop and go like they are in rush hour traffic.
     
  10. talhaONE

    talhaONE

    Messages:
    384
    People who say yes are ds4 users while No are wheel users. Ofcourse wheel users are going to want matched with ds4 users. It increases their winning chance significantly.
     
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  11. watto79

    watto79

    Messages:
    832
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    This video is relevant to the conversation and is about as close as you can get to a direct comparison. It's worth watching the whole thing.

     
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  12. S0UND

    S0UND

    Messages:
    5
    I think I'm gonna have to agree with you.

    Just the same, There's a lot of PC players on Modern Warfare that are opposed to only matching with other Keyboard and Mouse users because they want an unfair advantage over conttoller users.

    Side note: i want to make it clear that i do own a wheel and it's not just me being a butthurt controller user wanting changes to the matchmaking. It's just that Input-based matchmaking makes for a more fair experience for me, on paper at least.
     
    talhaONE likes this.
  13. Deadpool

    Deadpool

    Messages:
    375
    Location:
    United States
    Maybe let controller users choose? Meaning let them choose only to match with controllers, but if they want to race against wheels let them.

    The biggest advantage, which also effects tire wear. Consistency. The wheel is night and day more consistent on race pace. Not that there aren’t controller users capable......but I find them to be extreme anomalies.

    But for a single flying lap, the difference can be negligible if none at all depending on the track. Tracks with high speed sweepers in cars with twitchy balance, wheel has the controller beat IMO.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2019
  14. bil coz

    bil coz

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    517
    N
    Nice thread for insecure babies who lose sleep over results.
    One hilarious suggestion was the guy who hoped to see if some wheels are favored over others. more money=better wheel=maybe earn a few thousandths of a sec.

    GT isn't gonna change the way it works for you kids, it's a game that has great physics and has always had great control with a gamepad. All the people who can drive are telling you that they're doing almost the same times on both, despite them probably spending 99% of their time driving with their wheel. But you're still crying cause you can't accept that some people are faster than you.
     
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  15. breeminator

    breeminator

    Messages:
    664
    It doesn't happen with every replay. I was in a lobby with another top driver, and his driving was how I'd expect, fabulously smooth, and being able to watch it really improved my ability to drive that track. He was playing from a different continent, so if it's the network latency, he should have had it worse than the ones I've seen where their driving didn't look smooth. I suspect there are more aliens playing with a controller than people realise.

    Re matchmaking, surely the fact that DR is used for matchmaking already captures any differences between controller and wheel? If the wheel makes it easier to go fast, wheel users will have a higher DR and won't be matched against slower controller users with lower DR. If a wheel and controller user have the same DR and get matched against each other, it's because any difference that the input method makes is being cancelled out by an equal and opposite difference in their abilities, but it's still fair for them to race each other because the net effect is they drive at a similar standard to each other.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2019
    Winnie847 likes this.
  16. fordlaser

    fordlaser Premium

    Messages:
    6,223
    Location:
    Australia
    No to that question.

    Leaderboard and Matching (Based on Input Devices) it is not going to happen.

     
  17. ASH32

    ASH32

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    4,359
    Location:
    England
    If there was a leaderboard that lists what input was used, I think a lot of people would cry when they realise that a number of the top ten times are set with a DS4. For the most part the DS4 is not slower than a wheel in many combos, if the person using it is good enough of course. ;)

    Both are challenging in their own way and both have strengths and weaknesses and a good adaptable driver will be quick with either because PD have done a lot to make the controller competitive. The rest of us will likely have one that they prefer, for me I'm definitely quicker with a wheel and it's more fun but they will be others out there that prefer to use the controller sometimes, even when they own a wheel.

    :gtplanet::cheers:
     
  18. Vegard

    Vegard

    Messages:
    2,889
    Location:
    Norway
    That's probably in large part due to the fact that the best drivers tend to go for a wheel while most of the controller users are casual players.
    Input device was listed in the GT5 time trials if I recall correctly.
     
    bil coz likes this.
  19. S0UND

    S0UND

    Messages:
    5
    Firstof all, I'm 26 years old.

    Secondly, I don't pretend to be the best GT player in the world or the worst. On average i am about a half second to a full second behind the top 10 leaderboards on the daily races - depending on the track of course.

    You have misunderstood this post, it is nothing to do with anyone crying over results.

    I wanted to find out who else would be interested in input-based matchmaking and judging from the poll it's a pretty even split at 40/60 - which means there are like-minded people out there.
     
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  20. KepleroGT

    KepleroGT

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    220
    It's just the replay. Unless their ping is <1ms there's gonna be lag.
     
  21. VeeDoubleU

    VeeDoubleU

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    1,288
    1) Controller users have made it to live events.

    2) In a league I'm in, the champion and person who usually beats us all....is a controller user.

    3) If you are going to separate it into controller and wheel, what about also which wheel? It could be argued there are huge differences between let's say a G29 and a TGT.

    We shouldn't have separate rankings based on input, although a mention of the input is always a nice extra bit of information occasionally.
     
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  22. bil coz

    bil coz

    Messages:
    517
    I stand by what I said. It has to do with babies being all worked up they might have it worse than others, losing sleep over comparing "fairly". Well guess what it is already fair, the reason the players at the top almost all use a wheel is because its a logical thing to buy when racing is your main thing, they'd have the same pace if all they had was a DS4.
     
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  23. Pigems

    Pigems Premium

    Messages:
    4,276
    Location:
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    Well said. :tup: :cheers:
     
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  24. MikeV27

    MikeV27

    Messages:
    1,523
    Location:
    Canada
    I like the idea but it would just split the player base up too much, their are far more DS4 users compared to wheel users. I would like to see what inputs others are using in the lobby.

    Also I’d say the two inputs are on the same level in terms of speed, you have to work a lot harder on a wheel though. DS4 is relatively easy.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2019
  25. S0UND

    S0UND

    Messages:
    5
    I'm not the least bit worked up that i have it worse than other people - In fact I'm one of the fortunate ones who has a wheel. I struggle to see how you came to the conclusion that i'm acting like a baby :S
     
  26. Rinsky

    Rinsky Premium

    Messages:
    2,486
    Location:
    United States
    I have to agree. The player base is not large enough to split up by input devices. If it wasn't for that fact alone then yes I would definitely like to see something along those lines even if it was only a online lobby option.
    I do like everyone's idea about showing your input devices instead.
     
    fastone371 likes this.
  27. fastone371

    fastone371

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    1,853
    Location:
    United States
    In my experience there are pros and cons with each input device. It seems that you can stop in shorter distances using the DS4 and you can also catch slides easier than with a wheel. With a wheel you can be much smoother, it's obviously easier to become adept at using a manual transmission, and it's easier to modulate the throttle without TCS.
     
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  28. Sander 001

    Sander 001

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    1,834
    The player base is too small as it is, I don't think it can afford to be split.
     
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