Left foot braking & Clutch

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JasBird

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Question to all you wheel users. You use the left foot to brake? After all those years with F1 and Rally games I've gotten used to left foot braking. I've been doing that on GT4 and EPR aswell.

In quest for realism I now tried to brake as I would in real life. Well in real life I don't race so I only brake with my right foot, but in EPR I only brake with left foot in corners were I don't downshift, which you could do in real life too. However when I downshift I don't use left foot for braking, because in real life I would need my left foot for the clutch.

This has a big impact on my times. Especially if you drive cars like Lotus Elan or Lancia 037 or other cars that are unstable under braking when you usually sit and balance with one foot on the gas pedal and one on the brake pedal. Now you really have to plan ahead.

Something to think about when we talk about real life laptimes vs games? Also think about how we don't have to deal with the clutch like in real life. Especially on downshifts I think it would be easy to unsettle the car if we let the clutch out to sudden with the correct engine RPM.

Anyway for me it's a new challenge.

- Bullitt73

Haven't played GT4 since I got EPR
 
Me neither. Haven't touched GT4. Shame because it's got some really great tracks that i love. It's like having a supermodel in your house and you being impotent.

Braking? I hate the pedals on teh DFP. There's no resistance to them - not any realistic resistance anyways. Because of that i usually brake 100% and i know that costs me time. I haev to force myself to feather the brake pedal. I'm also learning that it's never a good idea to downshift, or engine brake, as your car is weaving through a turn - bam! snap oversteer.

I really think Enthusia is making me a better driver. They also have my real car in teh game, but they don't quite have the car i'm getting next.
 
i used to use my left foot to brake, back when i was playing GT3 with a mad catz 2 wheel, especially in rally races. But now with the DFP its gone, my left foot is just too busy stepping the clutch to shift and heel toe. and yeah, the pedals of the dfp is different from RL. But still, it helps you to be a better driver.
 
Gotta love the 5-speed Shuffle :lol: I have my MC2 set up next to my DFP so that the gas pedal is my clutch (yes it actually works), and the stick shift is my e-brake handle. It feels just like real life. Especially in TOCA 2 where you have to heel-toe it to keep from locking up the rear end, and the clutch HAS TO BE USED in order to shift w/o grinding the teeth off the gears.

I call it the 5-Speed Shuffle because I use my left foot for braking or clutch. I start braking with my left foot then change so that I can heel toe using my right foot on the gas and brake pedal (left on clutch obviously) If I don't have to downshift I don't swap feet for obvious reasons. It takes skill to get the swap down, but it improves my braking control drastically via making my heel-toe technique smooth and consistent (clutch is an analog control in TOCA 2).

The steps for the shuffle are as follows:
To get the swap you have to rotate your left foot on the brake pedal,
place your right foot at the top of the brake pedal,
Move your left foot to the clutch,
blip the throttle with your right heel in order to heel-toe it,
move your right heel over to brake pedal for comfort and better brake control when finished heel-toeing it
move your right heel back to the gas pedal if you need to heel-toe it again.
move right foot back to gas pedal and let left foot rest over the clutch when finished braking for turn.

This is strange because I don't do this in real life. I guess it's because the gas and brake pedals are spaced too far apart on the DFP.

edit: and yes, I played both games today. I miss my clutch on GT4. So realistic to clutch kick to initiate a drift.
 
rsmithdrift
Gotta love the 5-speed Shuffle :lol: I have my MC2 set up next to my DFP so that the gas pedal is my clutch (yes it actually works), and the stick shift is my e-brake handle. It feels just like real life. Especially in TOCA 2 where you have to heel-toe it to keep from locking up the rear end, and the clutch HAS TO BE USED in order to shift w/o grinding the teeth off the gears.

I call it the 5-Speed Shuffle because I use my left foot for braking or clutch. I start braking with my left foot then change so that I can heel toe using my right foot on the gas and brake pedal (left on clutch obviously) If I don't have to downshift I don't swap feet for obvious reasons. It takes skill to get the swap down, but it improves my braking control drastically via making my heel-toe technique smooth and consistent (clutch is an analog control in TOCA 2).

The steps for the shuffle are as follows:
To get the swap you have to rotate your left foot on the brake pedal,
place your right foot at the top of the brake pedal,
Move your left foot to the clutch,
blip the throttle with your right heel in order to heel-toe it,
move your right heel over to brake pedal for comfort and better brake control when finished heel-toeing it
move your right heel back to the gas pedal if you need to heel-toe it again.
move right foot back to gas pedal and let left foot rest over the clutch when finished braking for turn.

This is strange because I don't do this in real life. I guess it's because the gas and brake pedals are spaced too far apart on the DFP.

edit: and yes, I played both games today. I miss my clutch on GT4. So realistic to clutch kick to initiate a drift.
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Im glad that someone's using my dfp and mc2 method. im still having trouble with the heel-toe, sometimes my exit at a corner is not smooth, but im getting there. That Shuffle technique is insane, i gotta try that tomorrow. do you depress the gas while shifting gears? like when up shifting to gear 2, you let go on the gas, then depress the gas after shifting? just glad that someone is using the mc2 and dfp at the same time like i do.
👍
 
GarouGT
Im glad that someone's using my dfp and mc2 method. im still having trouble with the heel-toe, sometimes my exit at a corner is not smooth, but im getting there. That Shuffle technique is insane, i gotta try that tomorrow. do you depress the gas while shifting gears? like when up shifting to gear 2, you let go on the gas, then depress the gas after shifting? just glad that someone is using the mc2 and dfp at the same time like i do.
👍
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Yeah, I actually started using that after reading your post on how to do it. I been advertising to all the suckers buying Frex stuff for PS2 use how much cheaper it is. And as for the gas depressing thing, I'm not quite sure what you're talking about. But what I do to up shift on TOCA 2 is to let off to about half throttle during up shifts. Heel-toeing and use of the clutch for shifting in general is unnessesary in Enthusia because the car shifts the same if you use it or not. If you want to catch a gear, initiate a drift via up-shift, or shift lock however you have to use the clutch and some unorthodox technique. like for shift lock you put in the clutch, let the revs drop then release the clutch in a low gear so that the revs jump up dramatically. If I want to say.........catch 2nd gear, I put in the clutch and don't lift at all during the shift, it can give you a boost. If you do this in TOCA 2 you can catch 6th in some cars :lol:

I can't remember, do you use the MC2 shift lever as a e-brake handle? Cause that's the best part IMO.
 
rsmithdrift
Yeah, I actually started using that after reading your post on how to do it. I been advertising to all the suckers buying Frex stuff for PS2 use how much cheaper it is. And as for the gas depressing thing, I'm not quite sure what you're talking about. But what I do to up shift on TOCA 2 is to let off to about half throttle during up shifts. Heel-toeing and use of the clutch for shifting in general is unnessesary in Enthusia because the car shifts the same if you use it or not. If you want to catch a gear, initiate a drift via up-shift, or shift lock however you have to use the clutch and some unorthodox technique. like for shift lock you put in the clutch, let the revs drop then release the clutch in a low gear so that the revs jump up dramatically. If I want to say.........catch 2nd gear, I put in the clutch and don't lift at all during the shift, it can give you a boost. If you do this in TOCA 2 you can catch 6th in some cars :lol:

I can't remember, do you use the MC2 shift lever as a e-brake handle? Cause that's the best part IMO.
Click to expand...

nope i dont use the mc2 shift lever as a hand brake. instead, that's my transmission, and my hand brake is where the default button on the mc2, behind the wheel. i need to get used to the transmission's location, even if it not an H pattern. so in real life, ill be able to know where i shift. and yeah, thats what im talking about when shifting gears, i tend to let off the gas pedal during up or down shifts, even though its pretty useless. i dunno, i guess i want to practice for the real thing.
 
The funniest thing happened to me while doing the "Shuffle" I forgot I was using the DFP and MC2 instead of driving a real car and I SLAMED my foot down on the brake and gas pedals. NEXT THING I KNOW THE DFP PEDALS ARE ON TOP OF MY FOOT UPSIDE DOWN!!! :lol: I flipped the pedals by hitting them so hard. I now keep my left heel on the DFP pedal base while heel-toeing to keep it on the ground.
 
So how does this second wheel clutch thing work? Does the MC2 have USB port? Can you use another wheel, like the DF as clutch?

Ehh never mind, just found the other post :guilty:
 
u plug the mc2 wheel in via controller port then plug ur dfp in the usb port then u program the gas pedal on the mc2 to be the cutch pedal then u can use neat clutch techniques
 
rsmithdrift
Gotta love the 5-speed Shuffle :lol: I have my MC2 set up next to my DFP so that the gas pedal is my clutch (yes it actually works), and the stick shift is my e-brake handle. It feels just like real life. Especially in TOCA 2 where you have to heel-toe it to keep from locking up the rear end, and the clutch HAS TO BE USED in order to shift w/o grinding the teeth off the gears.

I call it the 5-Speed Shuffle because I use my left foot for braking or clutch. I start braking with my left foot then change so that I can heel toe using my right foot on the gas and brake pedal (left on clutch obviously) If I don't have to downshift I don't swap feet for obvious reasons. It takes skill to get the swap down, but it improves my braking control drastically via making my heel-toe technique smooth and consistent (clutch is an analog control in TOCA 2).

The steps for the shuffle are as follows:
To get the swap you have to rotate your left foot on the brake pedal,
place your right foot at the top of the brake pedal,
Move your left foot to the clutch,
blip the throttle with your right heel in order to heel-toe it,
move your right heel over to brake pedal for comfort and better brake control when finished heel-toeing it
move your right heel back to the gas pedal if you need to heel-toe it again.
move right foot back to gas pedal and let left foot rest over the clutch when finished braking for turn.

This is strange because I don't do this in real life. I guess it's because the gas and brake pedals are spaced too far apart on the DFP.

edit: and yes, I played both games today. I miss my clutch on GT4. So realistic to clutch kick to initiate a drift.
Click to expand...

I too have been using my DFP and MC2 wheel for Enthusia. With Left braking and heel toe downshifting my feet are very busy now. I have my MC2 wheel on my right for shifting and my shifter on the dfp is now ebrake.
 
will it work with a Driving force, and driving force pro as well? i have both of those wheels.
 
Adam West
Braking? I hate the pedals on teh DFP. There's no resistance to them - not any realistic resistance anyways.
.
Click to expand...

Use a stress ball / squishy ball underneith the brak pedal, really helps to simulate resistance !
 
TwinTurboJay
Use a stress ball / squishy ball underneith the brak pedal, really helps to simulate resistance !
Click to expand...

You could even use one that limits the total travel distance of the pedal, as long as you recalibrate it in Enthusia...
 
i use that green stuff in a sponge and put it underneath the brake pedal. It was pretty stiff and it was kinda hard to fully brake, but it sure fixed the snappy sound though :D.
 
well, you don't actually have to use the clutch <8- P
in real life you can just rev-match and pop it in gear without any problems if you know what you are doing. i do it all the time in my p.o.s. because im too lazy to use the clutch (except obviously from a stop).
yeah, i do left foot braking in GTR when i drive the 911 or any more difficult car for that matter, but i still do heel toe with my right foot when i downshift.
 
Real life:

Left foot braking on corners that don't require a downshift. Otherwise, I'll heel-toe downshift (brake and blip throttle with the right foot) and use the left foot on the clutch.

Enthusia/GT4:

Left foot brake on every corner.

Honestly, trying to be "realistic" by using the right foot for both brake and throttle just doesn't work, because the DFP's pedals are not placed nearly the same way as those in a real car. It feels very awkward to right foot brake with the DFP.
 
orubasarot
I've never actually driven a manual, how does rev matching work exactly? Sounds like it's only for downshifting so the RPMs don't jump up too high in a lower gear, but I don't understand it for upshifting.
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The purpose of rev matching is to match the engine speed to the drivetrain's speed (determined by the speed of the car and what gear the transmission is in) before engaging the clutch. This eliminates most of the shock upon the drivetrain and will also prevent you from locking the drive wheels (which could be dangerous when cornering).

For example: if you're traveling at 45 mph in my E46, you'd be at roughly 3200-3300 rpm in 3rd gear. In second gear, you'd be at about 4600 rpm. Therefore, if you wanted to go from 3rd to 2nd gear, you would disengage the clutch, rev the engine to 4600 rpm (or slightly below that because the car will decelerate slightly) and then re-engage the clutch with the shifter in 2nd gear. Done right, and the shift will be very smooth.

A perfect shift will require little to no slipping of the clutch for smooth engagement.

Rev matching an upshift should only be necessary in a car with a lightweight flywheel (where the revs fall past the next gear's appropriate RPM before you can engage the clutch).
 
well, he explained it, but when i say rev-mataching, i mean shifting without the use of the clutch. i will use his example again. ok.....you are driving in 3rd gear at 3,200-3,300 rpms, you take your foot off the throttle, tug on the shifter and pop it out of gear, then get the revs up to 4,600 and you will be able to simply push it into gear without actually touching the clutch pedal. now it won't work if you don't get it right, it may kind of go into gear and grind, but that is simply user error. you have to be exact.
 
blargonator
well, he explained it, but when i say rev-mataching, i mean shifting without the use of the clutch. i will use his example again. ok.....you are driving in 3rd gear at 3,200-3,300 rpms, you take your foot off the throttle, tug on the shifter and pop it out of gear, then get the revs up to 4,600 and you will be able to simply push it into gear without actually touching the clutch pedal. now it won't work if you don't get it right, it may kind of go into gear and grind, but that is simply user error. you have to be exact.
Click to expand...

You are talking of in-game revmatching or real life? I guess it is RL and, me thinks that that kind of procedure is a good way to hurt the transmission. I drive both cars and bikes and once (some years ago) I had to drive my bike for more than 100 km (about 60 miles) without clutch , so I had to do what you just described. Downshifting was easy (you just ease the throttle, push the pedal down with your foot and it downshifts), but upshifting required precise revmatching. In a car, however, and unless something like "losing the clutch" happens, you need precise revmatching both to downshift and to upshift. And it's not a good thing to do to your car. Besides, you'll probably lose time while doing it (changing gears) that way.
 
oh i know, i have a spare motor and trans. in case anything was to happen.
during normal city driving its not like its a race so i take my time. i get my upshifts without a problem but yeah, if you screw up a lot it could easily cost you quite a bit.
i don't do it if im merging onto the highway or something, just when i don't need to hurry/go WOT.
 
Clutchless shifting is a fun trick, but I don't recommend doing it on a regular basis. Long haul truck drivers do it on a regular basis, but their transmissions are designed for it.
 
I don't see how you could gain much on clutchless shifting when going say from 3rd to 4th? I read the book from Skip Barber Racing school were they talk about different teqnuiches etc, and if I remeber correctly they said it almost nothing to gain on it + more risk of breakdown??

Cheers
 
lol yeah, its not faster in any way at all. like i said, i don't do it if i actually have to rush to keep up with traffic or something. i only have a 4 speed gearbox and i bog in 4th if i am not going 40+ mph.
I would not recommend doing it on a daily basis either, the only reason i do it at all is because i have another motor+trans and this motor is already getting close to its last miles so if anything goes wrong with it we are just going to pull the whole thing and plop in my good motor and trans....but its still another 4 speed :-\
 

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