Let's think about the very concept of liveries.

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Ridley-X4
Let's begin with a relatively simple question: Why desire a livery editor? And I think this has a relatively simple answer: self-expression. But if that is so, I think it's a bit ironic that many liveries I've seen both in GTS and in other racing games are just replicas of other liveries, or slight modification thereof. So I want us to think deeply, about what exactly we're trying to accomplish here?

For a lot of racing liveries, they're made to expand reach and exposure of a company, so we should keep that in mind. For non-race cars, I think the rules are a lot more open and expressive, (just look at some of the made-for-game liveries of cars in series like NFS, Tokyo Xtreme Racer, The Crew, or Midnight Club) but at the same time, there can be fun in trying to work around limitations, regulations, and restrictions, which real-world racing liveries do have.

I think it could be good to see more customization options return in a future installment, such as aero parts, or even stuff like the horns. I also think many of the made-for-game race cars would be great as part of a resurrected RM system, where you turn a car that's yours into a car that's more "orthodox." I also wouldn't mind seeing more headlight covers, which is something that seems odd in GTS - it's often only an option on various Gr.4 and Gr.3 cars, with the Ferrari 512bb being a sole exception, and the only option is yellow. It's funny how a specific color is listed there, as opposed to a more vague but binary term.

The goals I'd personally have is to both have somewhat extensive customization but also making it easy to encounter a field of cars that's aesthetically pleasing, rather than just your own.

Here were my other suggestions for customization as a whole, beyond tuning:
-When adding stickers, you can only select from companies either involved with the car (e.g. brakes, the wheels you've selected, seats), can be involved (e.g. fuel/oil or tires), appear on the car's default livery (e.g. PIAA for the GT-R Gr.B) or are otherwise available (e.g. publication stickers and original decals). Overall, this would also clean up the list of available decals, and you'd still be free to use uploaded decals at your discretion - anyone who's made liveries for the Ferrari models would understand what I'm saying.

-There would also be default decals based on other stuff, such as the racing series a car was being used for when it was scanned, the stylized name of the car (it'd also be colorable), and the manufacturer's logo at that time alongside their current logo. That last part would also apply to the "involved entities," such as the brake and wheel manufacturers, and also coachbuilders like Pininfarina or Giugiaro. You'd also have manufacturer decals that are just the company's logo, the text for the name, or both alongside. Even the stylized name of the chosen wheel model would be a decal option, too.

-On top of this, wheels would be similarly limited depending on the class of car. So center-lock wheels would be the only options for Gr.1, Gr.2, and Gr.3 cars. For Gr.4 and other classes, the number of lugs on the available wheels depends on the class/car itself, and this would also apply to other wheel motifs, such as wheels typically meant for drift cars.

-You could also edit the default livery instead of completely clearing it, where you can replace all instances of a given sticker with another. For example, if you wanted to pick a different tire company, you could replace all instances of a particular Michelin sticker with something like Bridgestone, rather than just one at a time.

-For less creative people, there could also be some GT-original liveries available. This could include the liveries from GT League, but also liveries seen on GT-original liveries in prior games, such as the stealth models & chrome line cars from GT5, the 15th Anniversary skins from GT6, the Black Cars from GT4, or even the various cup cars from some installments, like the Beetle Cup car. I'd like to see this for the suits/helms, too, as I recall there being such an idea in GT6. (Some could even be rewards on top of credit/car prizes for some campaign events!)

-For the displayed name, I'd really like to have the name on the car be customizable, and perhaps even being able to change the flag, and add up to three driver names & flags. Perhaps even the font for this option could have a few alternatives. (Similarly, instead of individual letter decals, perhaps you could just pick a font, then type in the text you wanna use as a decal.

-Instead of having the many colors and special attributes to them, you could still use the color wheel, and pick these options from a drop-down menu. You could then select more than one color (I can't remember if it was two or three) for the colorshift paints. Instead of "special color" in the livery editor menu, there'd just be "real car paints," which you could then narrow down to a given automaker, (which are listed alphabetically rather than by all colors starting at red). A given paint option would become available when buying a car from that automaker in that color. I had thought of making every color option for a given car available even after buying it once, but I think that'd make this new menu too rough to scroll through, so instead, players could essentially customize it by buying a car multiple times in different colors if they're really interested in having that color be available.

-I'd also like to potentially change the interior color for cars that may undergo those changes when picking a different color at Brand Central. But perhaps it could be limited to the options already displayed at the manufacturer. (Doesn't window tint have similar changes for some models?)

-For the sake of uniformity in a given championship, perhaps you could also have original window stickers and/or additional decals that are forced on for some series other than the number stickers, like each of the two FIAGTCs.

-As another note, maybe there could be a "GT Creative Suite" where you create/upload/share liveries, photos, track designs, and/or other stuff instead of having be in-game. Heck, the social network could be there, too, instead of being in-game. I think it'd be good to have on mobile devices, or perhaps being also available as an official website app, but ideally used on desktop in that latter case.

-Perhaps you could also pick various OEM parts, too, especially if a given model of car has multiple factory wheel options.

-Finally, I had more ideas on pre-order bonuses. You could be given an in-game voucher for a car (similar to what I had in mind instead of being directly gifted the car, so you can still pick the color option and whatnot), and these cars would still be available to those who don't pre-order. It's just that they'd be gifted to pre-ordered copies instead of using in-game credits, though both sorts of players would need credits if they want additional examples of that same model. The part where I mean "more ideas," would be the actual cars offered as bonuses. I had already thought of Launch Edition cars, like the Alfa Romeo 4C, revived Alpine A110, and the Dodge SRT Viper GTS '13, but perhaps prototypes (not as in Sports Prototypes like LMPs) could also be bonuses, like the Audi R18 Prototype from the PS3-era games, or more recently, the Lexus RCF GT3 Prototype that was introduced in GTS' vanilla (it's a prototype because it was still pending homologation) and later supplemented with the formally-homologated RCF GT3. Another example being the Honda NSX Concept-GT (which could appear alongside the more formal 2nd-gen NSX GT500), or various concept cars that were later produced, like the Toyota FT-1, the FT-86, or the 2nd-gen NSX Concept seen in GT6. Again, pre-orders would only be gifted a in-game voucher for these cars, but after that initial sample, they'd need to use in-game credits for additional ones. This is more or less exactly the same in principle as the pre-order cars we've seen offered for GTS, except I was thinking of having the actual pre-order cars follow a neat little "Launch Edition/prototype" motif.
 
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Ridley-X4
Another thing I thought of just now, is that maybe the livery editor is relatively limited for GTS so that PD can basically use GTS' editor for broader assessments. Like if it'd be worth bringing back and expanding upon in the next game. I'm not entirely sure if I'm convinced, given that everyone just wants to make replicas - I think a skin-based system may be better, which could still allow for a lot of different patterns, both based on actual cars and made-for-game liveries seen in prior GT games, like the cup racers. This would of course be in addition to having more "physical" part options, such as the aero parts in GT6, or the various wheel models. And also various unlockable suits and helms, like in GT6.

It's honestly a bit similar to my feeling on the course generator/editor. I don't think that any of these three features are going to facilitate the creation of interesting, original designs as much as they're just be filled with various replicas, both from real life and from other media. However, I'm open to the idea of somehow encouraging original yet appealing stuff in this regard. I do still like the idea of the "GT Creative Suite" mobile/desktop app. And I think that for the featured stuff, PD could have staff that work on those respective areas be the ones picking them. So the guy who's made some of the original courses for the series could be hand-picking his recent favorite course designs made by players.

Not to mention that I think the UI could use a ton of overhaul, especially for searching by more specific parameters. Instead of searching by certain windows of time, you could select by "most downloads," (I think sorting by likes is a bit botched by the fact that there's an achievement that depends on how many things you've liked), and then further sort them by "this week," "this month," "this year," and "of all time."
 
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6,063
Palestine
Palestine
BALD_GYE
So I want us to think deeply, about what exactly we're trying to accomplish here?

For the vast majority and people just learning to use the tools; having fun is the thing we’re trying to accomplish.


While it’s laudable that you want to express you’re creativity and really think about branding etc... you’ll notice the really good guys and gals making liveries, already are.
 
2,682
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Ridley-X4
For the vast majority and people just learning to use the tools; having fun is the thing we’re trying to accomplish.


While it’s laudable that you want to express you’re creativity and really think about branding etc... you’ll notice the really good guys and gals making liveries, already are.

Then maybe it’s an issue with discoverability. But I’m not really convinced that these creative outlets (livery editors for cars/suits/helms and course editors/generators) are truly worth it, since over 99% of the results are just replicas.

IMO a creative thing that I think would be great is sharing settings for cars and settings for race & championships. Something with more “functional payout,” so to speak. I’d also support more “physical” customization options, such as wheels and aero parts. Whereas even in the best-case scenario for a good car/suit/helm livery is just aesthetics, which could be accomplished with skins or additional suits/helms somewhat like in GT6. Similarly, even a good course design will only be usable in lobbies, and most will likely be buried under all the replicas people will likely upload.
 
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6,063
Palestine
Palestine
BALD_GYE
Then maybe it’s an issue with discoverability. But I’m not really convinced that these creative outlets (livery editors for cars/suits/helms and course editors/generators) are truly worth it, since over 99% of the results are just replicas.

The most popular current music of the last 20 years is full of rehashed, cheaply produced garbage, so should we also bin all music?
 
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Ridley-X4
The most popular current music of the last 20 years is full of rehashed, cheaply produced garbage, so should we also bin all music?

No, because I'd compare the current situation as being more like if the only popular music of the last 20 years were all covers of older songs.
 
6,063
Palestine
Palestine
BALD_GYE
No, because I'd compare the current situation as being more like if the only popular music of the last 20 years were all covers of older songs.

eh?

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4,962
Scotland
Ayrshire
Jimmy281090
The livery editor would have been put in, sort of like a beta, to see how it went, I’m guessing. That’s probably why it’s missing some features we feel we need.

I’ve done replicas, it’s cool to see a recreation. After all, if the real life car is in game why not? But I’ve also done many more originals.

As for your creative suite idea to share ideas, we have basically that on the community website? You can access any users shared content. You can access via phone, tablet or computer? And those not so creative can get liveries from it also. I think you’re maybe trying to over complicate something that pd has mad pretty simple. Given the discover section can be a bit awkward at times, it works?
 
2,682
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Ridley-X4
I just wish it were somehow easier to both make/don a good-looking livery, and to see a field full of players doing the same, instead of just seeing replicas and/or simply slapping on a special color and calling it a day. A skin system would be nice, IMO, if only to have “official” skins to use if one wanted. Plus I don’t think we’re getting that much out of having a livery editor - at least as it is now - since in actual racing, a livery is usually the trade-off for having a sponsor help subsidize your team. You typically don’t get nearly as much with a livery in GTS other than possible aesthetics, when I’d rather have more “physical” parts like wheels, light cover colors, windshield banners, aero parts, or perhaps even being able to remove some additional light covers on some FIA GT3/GTE cars like the 458 GT3. Otherwise, I’d be fine with just having a wide variety of obtainable skins, with some possibly also being only obtainable upon completing certain tasks, such as getting all golds in a certain event. They could even be a combination of liveries from the real-world race cars, original ones from prior GT games, and new ones by various livery creators like Sean Bull or Andy Blackmore.

I also would say that I’m more interested in the idea of sharing settings and rules for player-made races and championships, as I think there’s a lot of customization to be had there, too, except I also think that’s a more “functional” customization that affects more than just aesthetics.

EDIT: I mean, what’s *your* goal with including a livery editor? What do you fear losing if a livery editor didn’t return for the next title? If it really is self-expression, then I don’t see why we can’t just have a lot of different skins instead, seeing how most liveries for cars/suits/helms are just replicas, as seen in @baldgye’s image. I’d prefer the “expression” part of things be done via interesting settings, or the “physical” part additions, like the wheels. But perhaps one could also have a more restricted livery editor, like you could take the GT-original liveries (like on the made-for-game Gr.4 and Gr.3 racers) and replace instances of a given decal with another, while also being able to edit the coloration of the pattern that’s already there.
 
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daan

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What's wrong with replicas?

GTS is a racing game and if I'm racing a 962, for example, I'll probably not race it in the default Rothmans "Racing" livery, but I will chose a real livery that a 962 raced in, like my Shell/Dunlop livery, or Blaupunkt, or New Man, or any number of other liveries that a 962 (or 956, or even 935/917 etc) actually raced with.

I'll probably not race it in my own design as I don't have the design flair to do that and would just end up sticking decals over it.

I'm quite the traditionalist and believe that GTS's real racing cars should have real life liveries on them, and the livery editor allows me/us/anyone to do that.

The other thing I would say is that I don't think that road cars should have a livery on them (unless you're pretending that your Clio is a Clio cup car, or your 911 GT3RS is a cup car.) I may have some with silly liveries for lobby racing, but the vast majority of my road cars have been left alone, or painted dark blue and that's it.
 

VXR

10,275
United Kingdom
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motorforum
"What do you fear losing if a livery editor didn’t return for the next title?"

A whole heap of replay value and a creative outlet, which would see me choose to not buy the next installment. I'm not sure why you're having quite such an existential crisis over this.
 
2,682
United States
Connecticut
Ridley-X4
What's wrong with replicas?

GTS is a racing game and if I'm racing a 962, for example, I'll probably not race it in the default Rothmans "Racing" livery, but I will chose a real livery that a 962 raced in, like my Shell/Dunlop livery, or Blaupunkt, or New Man, or any number of other liveries that a 962 (or 956, or even 935/917 etc) actually raced with.

I'll probably not race it in my own design as I don't have the design flair to do that and would just end up sticking decals over it.

I'm quite the traditionalist and believe that GTS's real racing cars should have real life liveries on them, and the livery editor allows me/us/anyone to do that.

That makes sense to me, but why not make the real-world liveries (save for copyright stuff like with Rothmans) skins that can be bought from a successor to GT Auto? Not to mention that said skins could include GT-original liveries like for the LM Race Cars or the Cup Cars (or the AI's liveries in GT League), but also real-world skins made available for some road cars, like the series of vinyls made for both major iterations of the Toyota 86; the former group being for Toyota's racing heritage, and the latter being for the various Le Mans cars that've competed, and was meant to commemorate Toyota winning the LM24 in 2018.

The other thing I would say is that I don't think that road cars should have a livery on them (unless you're pretending that your Clio is a Clio cup car, or your 911 GT3RS is a cup car.) I may have some with silly liveries for lobby racing, but the vast majority of my road cars have been left alone, or painted dark blue and that's it.

I can understand that. I think liveries are best used for road cars when there's additional parts added to them, like the aero parts from GT6, but also the cup cars as you've mentioned.

VXR
"What do you fear losing if a livery editor didn’t return for the next title?"

A whole heap of replay value and a creative outlet, which would see me choose to not buy the next installment. I'm not sure why you're having quite such an existential crisis over this.

What's wrong with using a combination of a skin-based system, as well as various parts (e.g. wheels, light covers, windshield banners, but also stuff like in GT6, where you had rear wings and aero kits) when it comes to self-expression? I suppose I'd ideally like to not only make it easy for players to have a neat aesthetic that isn't just a default paintjob, but make it also easy to encounter a field of similarly good-looking cars, and not something like a car that's had a random special color applied to all areas and nothing else.

In other words, if your goal is to have a creative outlet with a lot of replay value, I think that'd still be achievable without the (current) livery editor. I would personally count the idea of customized settings for cars and a high degree of customization for rulesets in regards to races/championships, but I also understand what you mean, in the context of customizing the appearance of the car itself. I'd say there are tons of OEM options that could permit that, such as how some cars may have more than one wheel option, and/or optional vinyls. But that said, I also get that separate trims may be best-listed as separate models, like we've seen with the Nissan GT-R Premium and the Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren, especially the latter's wheel option.

EDIT: Maybe a good compromise would be to keep the livery editor (and further develop it) but also have skins, too. Have both options, yeah. Or, alternatively, there could be "official" community pages (such as for Gran Turismo itself) where they could post/share the skins I would've had in mind, anyway, like the GT League AI skins.
 
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226
United States
United States
Here's the real question...why do YOU want to take away the livery editor? Seriously, who are you to say what is or isn't a creative outlet for someone, or to judge other people's design choices for their liveries? Sounds to me like you want everyone else to conform to what you think looks good. No one cares if you think you're in "a field of similarly good-looking cars"...get over yourself.

BTW, pre-order bonuses are cancer. They rank right up there with loot boxes. Everyone who pays for the game should get THE WHOLE GAME.
 
2,682
United States
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Ridley-X4
BTW, pre-order bonuses are cancer. They rank right up there with loot boxes. Everyone who pays for the game should get THE WHOLE GAME.

Which they would, if you had actually read my post instead of letting your eyes glaze over when you read “pre-order bonus.”
 
4,962
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Jimmy281090
I don’t understand the issue with the livery editor at all.

You can create your own car, the way you like. If I’m racing online and I see a gold chrome gt3 car, I just think “thats awful” and get on with it. It doesn’t ruin my experience because it’s someone else’s time spent making it and driving it.

Sure, let’s get car parts! Spoilers, bumpers, adjustable track etc.. but why should we compromise the livery editor for that and a skin system where you tend to have very boring skins and guess what else? Repetitive. Go look at the arcade GR2 championship and have a look at the polyphony created liveries. They aren’t great!. I make all my own liveries and I race them, because they are mine. Occasionally I’ll come across my own livery with someone else using it. That makes me proud that my design was enough for someone else to enjoy.

The creative outlet in this game has opened itself up to a whole new kind of player that I didn’t know I was. And for that, I’m happy. I had no idea I had the creativity and skill that I do. I’ve never designed a livery in any game then come here and even win 2 of the livery editor competitions and normally in the hunt taking podium spots and the best of all, finding people who enjoy the same thing.