Lexus IS Coupe/Cabrio, IS Racing

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After the L600h and L600hL which set the standard of luxury sedans to a whole new level and offer a real alternative to the German manufacturers, Lexus, probably helped by the almighty Toyota has been sharpening his tools and looks ready for the battle !

The news come from the Japanese magazine "Car-Top" and even though those are rumours, we all know how it goes nowadays in the automotive industry, there is no time to waste with false informations. The big "L" has got 3 new weapons on their way.

Firstly the Lexus IS, challenging cars such as the BMW 3 series or Mercedes C Class, should soon be adding a convertible version to the lineup, a great news for all those who want to enjoy the upcoming summer in the best dispositions, no infos on the type of engine there will be under the right foot yet.

The second news will please all the Motorsport fans like myself, especially in the United States of America because Lexus has never been closer to enter the American Le Mans Series with the IS-F, to compete in the GT2 class alongside the Ferrari F430 and Porsche 997 GT.

Last but not least, Lexus is bringing something on the table for all the supercar lovers, the LF-A, considered by some as the new Toyota Supra, will mean business: 570HP and 320+kmh (200+mph) on the speedometer.

An impressive triple offensive by Lexus and we can't wait to know more !



Well, its a bit of a pro-Toyota story, but the photo was more or less the reason behind it. We all know that Toyota is indeed working to get the IS to be closer and closer to the 3-series and the C-Class. Furthermore, it looks as though they want to attempt to beat-up on the Germans in any other way possible. So the questions are:

1) Can Toyota out do the 3-series and C-Class?

2) Can Toyota compete, and possibly dominate in ALMS racing?

Its pretty obvious that Toyota wants a piece of the German pie, and I'm not certain if they will be able to do it. Certainly they may be able to woo some buyers in on their reliability and quality standards, but lets face it, "Fortress Europe" will be hard to break when it comes to dumping the standardized brands in any nation. There was a story not too long ago on GMI about how Toyota has in place extensive plans to take-down Volkswagen as the top-company in Europe, which although a possibility, it isn't something I see happening anytime soon.

...Going up against BMW and Mercedes-Benz, both argueably two of the most prestigious brands and indeed builder of some of the most prestigious models in all of the world is nothing short of impossible, in my opinion. Cadillac has had one hell of a time running with those two, and even companies with all of the money thrown at them (namely Audi and Jaguar), they still have their issues that they have yet to overcome.

Sure, the IS isn't a horrible car, but it surely isn't a 3-series. With the last of the C-classes being quite good, this new generation of models promises to be even better... Lest we forget as well, Audi is ready with a new A4, not to mention the A5, both of which hope to do maximum damage on the BMW standard.

We'll see I suppose. But I'm not betting on Toyota's table yet. Especially when it comes to racing... If we want to talk about the joke that has been their NASCAR program thus far, my expectations for ALMS racing isn't too great. Particularly if they're running against the bullet-proof Porsches.
 
Oh man... I hate luxo cars but the IS has really really grown on me, I love the sedan but a hard top convert sounds awesome! Here's my 2dr. ps job just for the heck of it. :D

 
I hope they don’t try to force the coupe shape if the proportions don’t naturally come. The sedan is one of the most beautiful sedans on the market today, and that rendering doesn’t look quite right.
 
I hope they don’t try to force the coupe shape if the proportions don’t naturally come. The sedan is one of the most beautiful sedans on the market today, and that rendering doesn’t look quite right.

Funny you should say that because I was just about to say the coupe side shot in the magazine looks quite funky.
 
I love the new IS, in terms of looks it outdoes the 3-series and C-class rightaway IMO. The cabrio looks quite good, but a little weird, as if the rear is a little bit too long...Anyway, if they're going to enter this thing in racing, that would be awesome! It looks beautiful already, can't imagine what some serious bumpers would do on that thing 👍
 
Question -- will the ALMS car understeer like a pig and require drivers to go through a complicated process to turn the traction control, stability control, and pit-lane speed limiter off?

In all seriousness, though, I'm glad to see the IS as a coupe. Two-door sedans are the best.
 
This is good for BMW & Merc I think , because it will only make the next gen 3er and C class even better :D
 
Its pretty obvious that Toyota wants a piece of the German pie, and I'm not certain if they will be able to do it. Certainly they may be able to woo some buyers in on their reliability and quality standards, but lets face it, "Fortress Europe" will be hard to break when it comes to dumping the standardized brands in any nation. There was a story not too long ago on GMI about how Toyota has in place extensive plans to take-down Volkswagen as the top-company in Europe, which although a possibility, it isn't something I see happening anytime soon.

...Going up against BMW and Mercedes-Benz, both argueably two of the most prestigious brands and indeed builder of some of the most prestigious models in all of the world is nothing short of impossible, in my opinion. Cadillac has had one hell of a time running with those two, and even companies with all of the money thrown at them (namely Audi and Jaguar), they still have their issues that they have yet to overcome.

Sure, the IS isn't a horrible car, but it surely isn't a 3-series. With the last of the C-classes being quite good, this new generation of models promises to be even better... Lest we forget as well, Audi is ready with a new A4, not to mention the A5, both of which hope to do maximum damage on the BMW standard.

Lexus, whether or not it's cars can compete technically with the likes of BMW, Merc or Audi - it certainly doesn't have the 'image' to compete with them emotionally in customer's minds. They still get thought of as posh-badged Toyotas here in Europe and Toyotas, however reliable they may be, are still mostly thought of as been as dull as dish water.

IMO Toyota want to get their sorry ass out of F1, where frankly they are becoming an embarrassing joke. They need to redirect those funds into a LMP2 car and badge it as a Lexus and forget any thoughts of ALMS GT2 where they'll just get their asses kicked by Ferrari, Porsche and probably Panoz. I can see LMP1 dieing a bit of a death at series level, Audi seem to be struggling with the R10 in ALMS and the European series is full of customer teams where Lexus would have nothing to gain by beating them but plenty to be damaged image-wise by losing to them. No, LMP2 with competition from Porsche and Honda(Acura) is where they'd want to be.
 
Question -- will the ALMS car understeer like a pig and require drivers to go through a complicated process to turn the traction control, stability control, and pit-lane speed limiter off?
...for the same reason Nick Heidfeld and Robert Kubica aren't winning races: The iDrive system makes pit-to-driver radio contact a PITA. Of course, I've also heard the LF-A won't appear until Toyota F1 wins a race. Perhaps they can arrange a Formula Libre race through the streets of Toyota City, or it might take another decade, given thier progress.

Otherwise, no real news here. I've seen about 20 renditions of what the coupe "may look like", and it really makes me wonder if the initial design of the IS was supposed to be a 2 door in the first place, and then the suits at Toyota said "make it 4 doors".
 
Lexus, whether or not it's cars can compete technically with the likes of BMW, Merc or Audi - it certainly doesn't have the 'image' to compete with them emotionally in customer's minds. They still get thought of as posh-badged Toyotas here in Europe and Toyotas, however reliable they may be, are still mostly thought of as been as dull as dish water.

IMO Toyota want to get their sorry ass out of F1, where frankly they are becoming an embarrassing joke. They need to redirect those funds into a LMP2 car and badge it as a Lexus and forget any thoughts of ALMS GT2 where they'll just get their asses kicked by Ferrari, Porsche and probably Panoz. I can see LMP1 dieing a bit of a death at series level, Audi seem to be struggling with the R10 in ALMS and the European series is full of customer teams where Lexus would have nothing to gain by beating them but plenty to be damaged image-wise by losing to them. No, LMP2 with competition from Porsche and Honda(Acura) is where they'd want to be.

+1 on the whole thing. They've got the stuff in some cases, and I would concede that they do have it with the IS350, but the execution is just wrong. Lets hope they don't squander the LF-A, because that may actually turn out to be the first Toyota I've liked since the Celica died. Well, I still like the X-Runner, but you never see those anyway...

In terms of motorsport, it would just make sense to give up on F1. Hell, they may as well give up on NASCAR while they're at it too. They had a good run last weekend, but lets be honest, I highly doubt a Camry will win this year...

If Toyota decided to invest all of that money in an LMP2 or a GT car, it would be money better spent by comparison to the other programs. They're in more friendly waters, with customers who would be more likely to buy their products, and furthermore, its a type of sport that would more or less "prove" how good their technologies can be... Particularly in GT racing.

As far as I know, Toyota (well, Lexus) has had some success in the Rolex Prototype series, but Porsche and Pontiac have both done great jobs raining on their parade most of the time.
 
Lexus, whether or not it's cars can compete technically with the likes of BMW, Merc or Audi - it certainly doesn't have the 'image' to compete with them emotionally in customer's minds. They still get thought of as posh-badged Toyotas here in Europe and Toyotas, however reliable they may be, are still mostly thought of as been as dull as dish water.


Totally disagreed, a Lexus is nothing like a Toyota. It may be from Toyota, but in terms of looks and reputation, it's in a far more greater league. If it wasn't for the stupid, not-needed-waaaay too much-what the hell-not worth paying for- technology in the new IS, it would be right up there with the 3-series, if it isn't already. I don't care how much more you know about figures about cars, but saying "are still mostly thought of as been as dull as dish water." is just not true 👎

About F1, why should Toyota quit? Last year, it was not Toyota but Honda who spend most money on F1. Where is their succes? Oh my bad, they haven't got any! You're telling me they've had more succes since 1999 up to now in 2007 with one single victory which was just pure luck? Errrr...No! Seriously, why is everyone picking on Toyota when Honda doesn't do a damn better with better drivers?!


*EDIT*

Sorry if I sounded harsch there Cracker, everybody his own opinion, right?
 
1) Can Toyota out do the 3-series and C-Class?

They already do - so does Infiniti. Anyone buying a new 3-series today without a lot of reasons to do so is making a huge mistake. And one of those reasons had better be 'I work for BMW and am thus getting a sharp discount.'
 
They already do - so does Infiniti. Anyone buying a new 3-series today without a lot of reasons to do so is making a huge mistake. And one of those reasons had better be 'I work for BMW and am thus getting a sharp discount.'

Eh?

I'd take the 3er any day in this situation, as it still offers the most "natural" driving experience, the best look and feel inside, and otherwise good looks outside as well. Plus, you can't beat the smoothness of that straight-six. Sure, I'm paying more for a slower car, but that doesn't mean I won't enjoy it more. The only convincing competitor thus far has been the G35, but even then, quality standards aren't quite there yet, and its still a few shades less refined than the BMW.

...However, I wouldn't be surprised to see Mercedes pull a fast-one with the C-class. The car looks damn good, appears as though it has the moves and the power, and I believe will clock in a bit cheaper (overall) with the varying models.
 
...for the same reason Nick Heidfeld and Robert Kubica aren't winning races: The iDrive system makes pit-to-driver radio contact a PITA. Of course, I've also heard the LF-A won't appear until Toyota F1 wins a race. Perhaps they can arrange a Formula Libre race through the streets of Toyota City, or it might take another decade, given thier progress.
I love it. :lol: 👍

They already do - so does Infiniti.
That's even funnier. :lol:
 
And enters the yelling person. You knew it was just a matter of time. ;)

The G35 offers all of what you want in a car normally, including a 6-speed shift it yourself option. At a lower price than either Lexus or BMW. Plus its a damn good looking package, with numbers to match.

The Lexus I feel offers a better long term investment, given reviews etc on reliability of the respective models, historically and so on. It is also faster than the BMW, offers a fairly robust manumatic transmission (which I find myself having fewer problems with every time I drive my dad's car) which more people will appreciate because even I get sick of rowing my own gears in stop and go traffic. I also think it has better styling than the G35 or 3 series.

Last is the 3 series, which most every car magazine puts at the top of the list of sport sedans. It has heritage, prestige, and a name with it. Its European and offers a manual. Reviewers claim you feel more connected with it, etc. But alas, those when they are driver for fun. On the days where you are not, I would prefer less distraction from the road surface, and they all seem to be obsessed over it (and just a bit biased). That, and its the priciest option last I checked, and I'll bet it would cost the most to maintain and run.

Back on the topic originally at hand before this detracted into the usual bash Toyota trend :rolleyes:

The Cabrio and Coupe should work well in the market, especially if they take the coupe or cabrio platforms and make cheaper Toyota models with them, even if they just get the 2.5 liter engine. I can see nothing but good coming of this. And I think both model ideas look good, though as others said, the proportions on the coupe seem off. Consider this - the magazine is distorting the imagine a little do to its binding.
 
Sorry if I sounded harsch there Cracker, everybody his own opinion, right?

No need to apologize to me. Differing opinions are what web forums are all about 👍

Totally disagreed, a Lexus is nothing like a Toyota. It may be from Toyota, but in terms of looks and reputation, it's in a far more greater league. If it wasn't for the stupid, not-needed-waaaay too much-what the hell-not worth paying for- technology in the new IS, it would be right up there with the 3-series, if it isn't already. I don't care how much more you know about figures about cars, but saying "are still mostly thought of as been as dull as dish water." is just not true 👎

The fact that you see few on on the road, here in the UK anyway, would support my opinion. I live less than a mile away from a large Lexus dealership, yet i still hardly ever see them about - i don't know how that place stays open to be honest. Fact is, people who would be in the market for an IS will take a 3-series, an A4 or a C-class instead everytime. Don't even get me started on the GS or LS, you just don't see these hardly ever. I see a dozen Bentley Conti GT's, half a dozen F430's, 3 or 4 Gallardos and even a couple of stretched Hummer H2's for every GS or LS i see on the road. I never said that the IS is a bad car, it certainly doesn't get any bad reviews in the magazines, it just doesn't appear on the radar of the people who should be buying the car.

About F1, why should Toyota quit? Last year, it was not Toyota but Honda who spend most money on F1. Where is their succes? Oh my bad, they haven't got any! You're telling me they've had more succes since 1999 up to now in 2007 with one single victory which was just pure luck? Errrr...No! Seriously, why is everyone picking on Toyota when Honda doesn't do a damn better with better drivers?!

I agree that Honda are under achieving at the moment, but they have such a wealth of F1 history behind them, their current situation can be seen as a dip in form. Toyota aren't having a 'dip in form' - they've never had any form! The present Honda team have only been around as such since mid 2005 when the took control from BAR/BAT. In that time, which is only one full season, they've won a race and finished 4th in the contructors championship. Toyota F1? - in 5 full seasons they haven't won a race and have finished 10th/8th/8th/4th/6th in the contructors. For the team with constantly the highest budget they are F1's serial underachievers.

Toyota need to be in motorsport, i just think they are wasting their time and money slogging away in F1, hanging around in the bottom half of the grid.
 
No need to apologize to me. Differing opinions are what web forums are all about 👍



The fact that you see few on on the road, here in the UK anyway, would support my opinion. I live less than a mile away from a large Lexus dealership, yet i still hardly ever see them about - i don't know how that place stays open to be honest. Fact is, people who would be in the market for an IS will take a 3-series, an A4 or a C-class instead everytime. Don't even get me started on the GS or LS, you just don't see these hardly ever. I see a dozen Bentley Conti GT's, half a dozen F430's, 3 or 4 Gallardos and even a couple of stretched Hummer H2's for every GS or LS i see on the road. I never said that the IS is a bad car, it certainly doesn't get any bad reviews in the magazines, it just doesn't appear on the radar of the people who should be buying the car.

This may explain our different opinions on the IS. I mean, I see you guys spotting supercars and beautiful sportscars everyday (pointing to the "What did you see today?" thread...). However, I don't spot anything here in Norway. I saw a couple of Ferrari's ans Supra's in Belgium but the coolest thing I've seen in Norway is an R33 GT-R and a 300ZX, cars which are cool but not something "Halleluja!" Another factor playing in this would be my "fanboy-ism" towards Toyota (goddamn proud of it :lol:). I don't know how it started but we've always owned nothing but VW's, Toyota's and Saabs...So that would explain my biased opinions towards Lexus...Especially the transformation it made from the previous IS gen, which was, without any discussing possible, a beautiful car.

Another thing which just came up in my mind could be people that haven't got a lot knowledge about cars? Maybe, I asked some people in my class today what they think Lexus comes from and I got answers like these:

- Mazda and Toyota together?
- Asian manufacturer?
- Chinese manufacturer?
- etc.

Seriously, I'm not joking, no more than 3 people knew Lexus comes from Toyota (!). But the people I asked it to thought Lexus cars were very, very nice. So maybe it's got something to do with what kind of city you're living in? What's daily or something?



TheCracker
I agree that Honda are under achieving at the moment, but they have such a wealth of F1 history behind them, their current situation can be seen as a dip in form. Toyota aren't having a 'dip in form' - they've never had any form! The present Honda team have only been around as such since mid 2005 when the took control from BAR/BAT. In that time, which is only one full season, they've won a race and finished 4th in the contructors championship. Toyota F1? - in 5 full seasons they haven't won a race and have finished 10th/8th/8th/4th/6th in the contructors. For the team with constantly the highest budget they are F1's serial underachievers.

Toyota need to be in motorsport, i just think they are wasting their time and money slogging away in F1, hanging around in the bottom half of the grid.


Le Mans?

Those years were fantastic! (All of those C-V gens were extremely competitive after the '90s...).

Personally, I liked seeing them get a Le Mans title rather than giving up after 2 years and moving to F1. It's very clear that they're stressing things, as if they need every title each day...If they worked a little bit more on the evolution of the GT-One race car, no doubt possible that it easily could've crushed the newer R8...(Although there was only a very, very slight track change, the Gt-One still holds the lap record...). It was a very fast car, beautiful as well, mainly because of the revolutionary design...Anyway, I think what Toyota is lacking in F1 is a strong basis to begin with:

- They haven't got a teamboss who actually stays (Japanese tradition, they all get send back to Japan after one year or something)
- They want all the best people and if they say no, Toyota responds with "Dude, just come with us, we'll make you freaking rich! We're the manufacturer with the most money!"
- etc.

Toyota is looking way to far, get a good teamboss first, set up a strong crew and then make progress. An example of one their mistakes would be in 2002 when, only after one year, they fired both their drivers. Salo and Mcnish aren't the best drivers, nor are they the worst. They are a good basis to begin with...I reckon they should at least have stayed untill after the 2003 season. The 2003 season was nice though, Toyota surprised in some races..(nice battle between R. Schumacher and C. Da Matta in Barcelona, the very nice 5th & 6th finish position in Germany), so things began to looks better. So what did Toyota do? "Oh, we're getting good! We must have better drivers who hardly know this team! Now!" Panis was old, yes, but he was good, and very experienced. (Look what Coulthard has done in the RBR!) and Da Matta had a lot of potential (Cart champion, a Brazilian driver, drivers from Brazil are usually very fast.., etc.).

Anyway, I can't really say if BAR was a big matter for Honda as I never heard people really mention the BAR thing, I never heard what it even was!...
 
And enters the yelling person. You knew it was just a matter of time. ;)

This should be fun!

The G35 offers all of what you want in a car normally, including a 6-speed shift it yourself option. At a lower price than either Lexus or BMW. Plus its a damn good looking package, with numbers to match.

Problem is, they still don't screw them together very well, and furthermore, they still try to get away using Nissan-grade materials in what is supposed to be a luxury car. Don't get me wrong, the G35 clearly is a driver's sport sedan, but it just isn't my cup of tea.

The Lexus I feel offers a better long term investment, given reviews etc on reliability of the respective models, historically and so on. It is also faster than the BMW, offers a fairly robust manumatic transmission (which I find myself having fewer problems with every time I drive my dad's car) which more people will appreciate because even I get sick of rowing my own gears in stop and go traffic. I also think it has better styling than the G35 or 3 series.

When you've got enough money to buy cars like these, do you really think people are looking into the long-term? Most of the people are going to buy or lease them for three years, dump them, and get a new one. Its just how the world works these days. On the transmission note, its kinda a pointless argument, as you can get the manual, slushbox (which is exceptionally good) and the SMG on the 3-series. I like being able to choose, and thats something I can't do on the Lexus. On styling, I'd select none of the above, as that title goes to the '08 CTS.

Last is the 3 series, which most every car magazine puts at the top of the list of sport sedans. It has heritage, prestige, and a name with it. Its European and offers a manual. Reviewers claim you feel more connected with it, etc. But alas, those when they are driver for fun. On the days where you are not, I would prefer less distraction from the road surface, and they all seem to be obsessed over it (and just a bit biased). That, and its the priciest option last I checked, and I'll bet it would cost the most to maintain and run.

I haven't had a lot of expirience with the current E90 3-series, but I did spend a lot of time with the E46, and as far as I'm concerned, thats about as good as it gets. The road surfacing is never distracting, and the feedback is indeed what is necessary to understand your car. Of course, people who've never driven a German car aren't likely to understand it all, but going between they and the Japanese and American rivals, they just seem so "sterile" (the Americans are getting better). It is by no means a "bias" to demand a sporty drive, a comfortable ride, and a setup that actually allows the driver to connect with the car... In my opinion, EVERY car should be like that.

But let me be honest for a moment here on pricing; It wouldn't make a lick of difference to me. I know that I'm buying the best car I can for the money, and thereby I'm happy to do so. Buying a BMW requires knowledge that parts are going to be expensive, insurance sure as hell isn't going to be cheap... Its all part of owning a German car. But, like I mentioned before, you buy them with the warranty for a reason, and then dump them off afterwards. "Crazy" people like me then proceed to buy the used BMW, Audi, Mercedes, etc models and pay out the ass for parts and service, and why?

Because they are vastly superior cars, no matter what the price difference may be. You pay for what you get, and by most measurements, the BMW is the cream of the crop.

...But, when GM gets on the Alpha chassis cars by the end of the decade, I'm probably going to be more likely to get one of those over the German or Japanese offerings. Cheaper prices, powerful engines, smart transmissions, increasing reliability and quality. With Holden on board, we know they're going to be great products...

Back on the topic originally at hand before this detracted into the usual bash Toyota trend :rolleyes:

The Cabrio and Coupe should work well in the market, especially if they take the coupe or cabrio platforms and make cheaper Toyota models with them, even if they just get the 2.5 liter engine. I can see nothing but good coming of this. And I think both model ideas look good, though as others said, the proportions on the coupe seem off. Consider this - the magazine is distorting the imagine a little do to its binding.

They've been talking about the Coupe for a while, and it does make sense. I've been seeing an increasing amount of 3-series coupes these days, and I'm pretty sure that the new Audi A5 will sell well. Lexus wants a piece of the coupe pie, and its no surprise... But it is a market that will get crowded quickly, as Cadillac should be joining for 2009 with the CTS, I wouldn't be surprised to see a Lincoln coupe by the end of the decade as well.

...The Cabrio is what it is, and the 3-series has a pretty tight grasp on that as well. The Audi A5 should make for an interesting drop-top, but class-standards like the C70 and 9-3 still do things right as well... Plus, the new 9-3 is on the way, and that should prove to be quite good with the new chassis and available AWD.

We'll see I suppose.
 
I haven't had a lot of expirience with the current E90 3-series, but I did spend a lot of time with the E46, and as far as I'm concerned, thats about as good as it gets. The road surfacing is never distracting, and the feedback is indeed what is necessary to understand your car. Of course, people who've never driven a German car aren't likely to understand it all, but going between they and the Japanese and American rivals, they just seem so "sterile" (the Americans are getting better). It is by no means a "bias" to demand a sporty drive, a comfortable ride, and a setup that actually allows the driver to connect with the car... In my opinion, EVERY car should be like that.

But let me be honest for a moment here on pricing; It wouldn't make a lick of difference to me. I know that I'm buying the best car I can for the money, and thereby I'm happy to do so. Buying a BMW requires knowledge that parts are going to be expensive, insurance sure as hell isn't going to be cheap... Its all part of owning a German car. But, like I mentioned before, you buy them with the warranty for a reason, and then dump them off afterwards. "Crazy" people like me then proceed to buy the used BMW, Audi, Mercedes, etc models and pay out the ass for parts and service, and why?

Because they are vastly superior cars, no matter what the price difference may be. You pay for what you get, and by most measurements, the BMW is the cream of the crop.
Hit the nail on the head. +Rep.
 
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