Licensing thoughts for NASCAR/Super GT/WRC

[Snaeper]

I did some searching and couldn't find any threads specific to Super GT and Gran Turismo (plenty of Super GT discussion in the Automotive section though)

Firstly, many have mentioned that GT5 has the Super GT license and not just the individual licenses to specific JGTC/Super GT cars. So I'm assuming that PD is inclined to put any and every Super GT car in the game at their wish.

With that in mind, how many Super GT cars can we expect in Gran Turismo (on top of the cars in previous installments). There's new teams and new vehicles every year, would all be included over the last 5-6 years since GT4? And does not having the license to a specific brand of cars override having the license to a series in which the cars participate (there are a lot of Porsche's in Super GT, from Boxsters to 997's, there's also a few Mosler MT900's in the series)? Obviously it would be only the vehicles that participate.

Assuming you can carry multiple vehicles from a single team over several years... what happens when the team changes it's brand association? The biggest example being the Daishin racing team, which is known for the Orange Silvia and 350Z GT300 cars, but now sports a Ferrari F430. Would the Nissan's and the Ferrari be able to co-exist?

Then there's Ken Block... since GT/PD has the WRC license and Ken Block's Monster World Rally team will be competing... could they also get the license to the Rally America Fiesta? Even though the Fiesta is sponsored by code masters' Dirt 2 (An Irony in itself since Dirt2 sports Block's Subaru.. but you probably knew that). Or does the Monster WRC Focus remain exempt from GT5?

Same goes for NASCAR. Every season there's at least one team running under a different manufacturers banner.


I think this alone is the biggest case for DLC in GT5. Kaz, you got some licenses you need to uphold. Fans will want the latest season of cars. And if your team is gonna take 2-3 years to make the next game.. then they're gonna need to appease the racing fans as well as the racing series(They hand out licensing to get marketing out of it) Honestly, I would hate it if there was some car or other that came and went in the WRC/Super GT and wasn't included becase PD was sitting on their hands.

 

[viejaloca]

Well, NASCAR has been scratched off gt5 about a week ago but with super gt, they'll probably have alot considering the last one had 4 different types of super gt cars in toyota and nissan if that answers your question about co existing.

 

[Northstar]

Well, NASCAR has been scratched off gt5 about a week ago but with super gt, they'll probably have alot considering the last one had 4 different types of super gt cars in toyota and nissan if that answers your question about co existing.

NASCAR is still in,IRL isn't.

Also, they don't get the rights to the cars, just the logos.

 

[Dave A]

PD have held the super GT licensein it's present for or back when it was the AJGTC since they started work on GT2. Having the license doesn't mean they will use evey team in the series nor does it give them the rights to use every team. A license like this will at most cover all the factory teams in the Super GT championship for whatever season/s they've specifically licensed. It may or may not also include certain tracks that the Super GT may or may not have a right to license out themselves. All the non-factory teams cannot be licensed through the Super GT, since the teams themselves don't own the rights to the cars they're driving, they cannot hand the rights to that cars representation to the Super GT. Only officaly factory teams can do this, so only offical factory teams can be included in the Super GT license. PD can still get the privateer teams, but they will have to license them seperately and come to an agreement with both the team and the manufacturer or licensee of the car in question. The same principals apply to WRC, I think Ken Blocks cars are all privateer entries and so they wouldn't come under the WRC license. PD would need to come to an agreement with the team and Ford or Subaru (depending on which car they're licensing). I'd imagine that Codemasters would have a clause that no one else can use thier cars or at least the Impreza for a cetain lenth of time after DiRT 2's release.

 

[CodeRedR51]

I think Ken Blocks cars are all privateer entries and so they wouldn't come under the WRC license. PD would need to come to an agreement with the team and Ford or Subaru (depending on which car they're licensing). I'd imagine that Codemasters would have a clause that no one else can use thier cars or at least the Impreza for a cetain lenth of time after DiRT 2's release.

His old cars I'm not so sure, but from now on he's driving nothing but Fords so it would probably have to go through them.

 

[Snaeper]

With Block, from what I understand, he's racing for Ford. If he was Privateering then I think he would still be driving Subaru's. His presence in the WRC is more of Ford America's doing than Ford of Europe (and the Abu Dhabi team). So there's a bit of a conundrum. Hopefully, we get to see at least the Monster Focus in the game (would be funny if it had Dirt2 logos on it) unless Block's team says otherwise (honestly though Ken... what game would you rather be in?)

A license like this will at most cover all the factory teams in the Super GT championship for whatever season/s they've specifically licensed.

And that's one of my questions Dave. Since GT's development time has extended over several seasons of Super GT/WRC/NASCAR do they license all of those seasons? Do the license only the most recent season and scratch the rest of the cars?

 

[Dave A]

And that's one of my questions Dave. Since GT's development time has extended over several seasons of Super GT/WRC/NASCAR do they license all of those seasons? Do the license only the most recent season and scratch the rest of the cars?

We don't know for sure exactley what the license PD currently holds covers, but usually you license a single season or a selection of seasons and that's all you can use. For example, you could license the 2010 season, but if the game is dealayed into 2011, unless you re-entered negotiations you would still only have rights to use the 2010 season cars and liveries.

 

[Northstar]

We don't know for sure exactley what the license PD currently holds covers, but usually you license a single season or a selection of seasons and that's all you can use. For example, you could license the 2010 season, but if the game is dealayed into 2011, unless you re-entered negotiations you would still only have rights to use the 2010 season cars and liveries.

Actually if they only have the license for a certain year(s)(let's go with 2010) they can't use that license at all after the license expires. This is why you can't find Formula One Collectors Edition or NASCAR 09 in stores unless they just have it left over.

So if they only have the license for one year they would either have to take it out or not sell the game if the license expired.

 

[danjama]

What you talking about scratched Nascar a week ago?

 

[Northstar]

What you talking about scratched Nascar a week ago?

I think he just mixed up NASCAR and IRL.

 

[CoolColJ]

License is just a right to use the product, doesn't mean you have to uphold it, unless there is a contract stipulation

 

[Dave A]

Actually if they only have the license for a certain year(s)(let's go with 2010) they can't use that license at all after the license expires. This is why you can't find Formula One Collectors Edition or NASCAR 09 in stores unless they just have it left over.

So if they only have the license for one year they would either have to take it out or not sell the game if the license expired.

The examples your using arn't great because thoes games largly sell on the basis that they're upto date but I'm sure you are correct in thoes examples. If a license has a time period of use then you can only make use of it within that time certainly, but there are a hell of a lot of clauses that can be put into a license and we don't know what they are in this case. They might give you a license to use once and only in a specific game, they might give you a license you can use over and over within a certain time period etc. We don't know what clauses are in the licenses PD holds for Super GT, NASCAR and WRC.

 

[Scoop2004]

One thing I wonder about these licenses is which season are they going to license? Which cars were included in the trailer released last year, was it the 2008 or 2009 season?

Will they model the 2010 season WRC and NASCAR cars before the game comes out or will we have to make do with 2008 or 2009 cars?

And if the game is delayed any more the 2010 racing seasons will be over!

 

[A2K78]

PD have held the super GT licensein it's present for or back when it was the AJGTC since they started work on GT2.

To be honest, PD never had the Super GT license per se, but only the license from the individual teams to include their machines rather than the entire thing e.g. championship, machine, and drivers. Now that PD has actually the license they can include not just the entire super GT championship, but also every machine past, present and future.

Its the same deal with NASCAR; technically in the past PD could've included NASCAR related material despite EA holding the license, however they would've been limited to the machines from the individual team rather than the entire championship itself. Now that that they have the license they are free include entire cars, drivers and even the Camping World Series.

So what does this mean for F1? Well despite the fact that Codemaster have the rights to F1, PD can still include F1 cars as in the same way as the F2007.

 

[patriotzero]

WRC is partial licence and 2009 years licence coz P. Solberg drives Subaru..PD can take F1 partial licence.. i mean only cars tracks already in GT5. we can say full licence too. i think nascar and superGT partial licence. too i dont think we will see SuperGT WRC tracks..Especially WRC stages There is alot stages and roads in WRC.it will be ficitonal tracks for WRC.You can skip Nascar official tracks Most of them is Oval courses. they are simple to making,
I dont know anything about Supergt but SuperGT cars were in since GT2. Is that licence mean to take super gt tracks?
I prefer WTCC or DTM licence instead of SuperGT . Of course this is Japanese game from japanese developers. it must be SuperGT in.
Nascar for US WRC for Europe SuperGT for Japan. Where is Australia V8 Challenges.? it smells Bathurst This is not a Worldwide Simulator game without Australia!!

Off topic: Official boxart was worldwide boxart is that hint for WorldWide release? i hope so

 

[Coiler]

edit

 

[Coiler]

WRC is partial licence and 2009 years licence coz P. Solberg drives Subaru..PD can take F1 partial licence.. i mean only cars tracks already in GT5. we can say full licence too. i think nascar and superGT partial licence. too i dont think we will see SuperGT WRC tracks..Especially WRC stages There is alot stages and roads in WRC.it will be ficitonal tracks for WRC.You can skip Nascar official tracks Most of them is Oval courses. they are simple to making,
I dont know anything about Supergt but SuperGT cars were in since GT2. Is that licence mean to take super gt tracks?
I prefer WTCC or DTM licence instead of SuperGT . Of course this is Japanese game from japanese developers. it must be SuperGT in.
Nascar for US WRC for Europe SuperGT for Japan. Where is Australia V8 Challenges.? it smells Bathurst This is not a Worldwide Simulator game without Australia!!

Off topic: Official boxart was worldwide boxart is that hint for WorldWide release? i hope so

Man, you need to see this guy Here channel on youtube, I just LOVE super GT!
The cars are so much more advanced than wttc or fia gt, they are close to LMP cars as it get's.
It's a shame we can't watch those races on Euro sport

 

[Dave A]

To be honest, PD never had the Super GT license per se,

Nope, PD had the All Japan GT Championship license, they had the GT300 and 500 events in GT2 which may or may not have required the full license but in GT3 and GT4 they had AJGTC events.

but only the license from the individual teams to include their machines rather than the entire thing e.g. championship, machine, and drivers.

How they use a license or what the specifically want to cover with a license is irrelvent to what I said, they had the license long before now. It's the first official series license PD had and for a long time the only official series license they've had.

Now that PD has actually the license they can include not just the entire super GT championship, but also every machine past, present and future.

Nope, getting a license to the Super GT for the 2008 season doesn't mean you can use cars from the 1996 season. You often have to license the seasons individally if you want to create a pick and mix of cars and teams over the years. Usually you license a series for a specific season or for specific seasons and you use the teams and liveries from thoes seasons. Thats why all the GT300 and GT500 cars can be grouped into the same few seasons. For example we'll have cars from the 96 season, the 99 season, 2005 season etc, but not from the seasons in between. That's beacuse thoes are the seasons licensed. You can license racing teams outside of having an official race series license, but normally the teams you can get are all privateers or if it is a factory team it's usually one of the teams test cars you license that was never submitted to the series for entry.

Its the same deal with NASCAR; technically in the past PD could've included NASCAR related material despite EA holding the license, however they would've been limited to the machines from the individual team rather than the entire championship itself.

Nope, they'd have been limited to none official teams of which I don't thnk NASCAR has any since the whole car of which every team is based on is trademarked by NASCAR. Without the NASCAR license PD could only create a similar but not idenitcal car both shape and livery wise at best.

Now that that they have the license they are free include entire cars, drivers and even the Camping World Series.

Not really, it depends on what their license covers, who knows if they have the rights to cover the CPS or Craftsman or any of the other series that come under NASCAR. We don't know, but the fact we haven't seen anything suggest that they haven't been licensed.

So what does this mean for F1? Well despite the fact that Codemaster have the rights to F1, PD can still include F1 cars as in the same way as the F2007.

Nope, the F2007 is in through a loophole in much the same way that the BMW F1 test car managed to get into Live For Speed and Race Driver 3 and a couple of other games. The teams entered all hand the rights to their cars representation over to F1, there are occasionally third cars or test cars that don't get handed over for one reason or another and you can use thoes, but not the entered cars.

 

[Sohvakettu]

The inclusion of Porsche race cars through the JGTC serries sounds interesting possibility. I think that might be possible as for example GTR and GTR2 had the GT2 cars included and i don't think Simbin was affiliated with EA at that time. There couldn't be a separate Porsche dealership though.

 

[A2K78]

Nope, PD had the All Japan GT Championship license, they had the GT300 and 500 events in GT2 which may or may not have required the full license but in GT3 and GT4 they had AJGTC events.

How they use a license or what the specifically want to cover with a license is irrelvent to what I said, they had the license long before now. It's the first official series license PD had and for a long time the only official series license they've had.

Nope, getting a license to the Super GT for the 2008 season doesn't mean you can use cars from the 1996 season. You often have to license the seasons individally if you want to create a pick and mix of cars and teams over the years. Usually you license a series for a specific season or for specific seasons and you use the teams and liveries from thoes seasons. Thats why all the GT300 and GT500 cars can be grouped into the same few seasons. For example we'll have cars from the 96 season, the 99 season, 2005 season etc, but not from the seasons in between. That's beacuse thoes are the seasons licensed. You can license racing teams outside of having an official race series license, but normally the teams you can get are all privateers or if it is a factory team it's usually one of the teams test cars you license that was never submitted to the series for entry.
Nope, they'd have been limited to none official teams of which I don't thnk NASCAR has any since the whole car of which every team is based on is trademarked by NASCAR. Without the NASCAR license PD could only create a similar but not idenitcal car both shape and livery wise at best.

Not really, it depends on what their license covers, who knows if they have the rights to cover the CPS or Craftsman or any of the other series that come under NASCAR. We don't know, but the fact we haven't seen anything suggest that they haven't been licensed.

^^^Dave A, once a developer acquires use of a license they pretty much have access to all material related to that license past, present and future. Why to you think riders like Kato, Rainey, Schwantz, Gardner, and Doohan were included in MotoGP 4. Not only that, but machines from past seasons were also included in the game

 

[Dave A]

^^^Dave A, once a developer acquires use of a license they pretty much have access to all material related to that license past, present and future. Why to you think riders like Kato, Rainey, Schwantz, Gardner, and Doohan were included in MotoGP 4. Not only that, but machines from past seasons were also included in the game

You think that because one game has licened vehicles and drivers from several seasons that every license automatically gives you everything connected to the association or company involved? It doesn't work like that, licenses can very specific and there are a hell of a lot of variables that can be given to any particular license. For example, two games companies might get licenses to use Ford cars, company A might get a license to use the Ford Focus RS and Ford Mondeo ST220, company B might get a license that allows them to use the Ford Mustang V6 and the Ford GT. Company A might state in the contract that the cars can be tuned within the game with parts 1, 2 and 3. Company B might not have any agreement to tune the cars but might have and agreement to scratch and dent the bodywork.

That's very basic, but it's a simple way of highligting how different two licenses that to us might look the same can actually be. We don't specifically know what PD have covered in their Super GT, WRC and NASCAR licenses, but generally when you license a series from a race association you license a specific season and you have access to agreed assets from that season only. There's no reason you can't try and licenses more than one season or get specific licenses from the race body for specific assets from other seasons, which probably was the case in the Moto GP4 game but short of reading the license contract/s ourselves we don't really know for certain.

Other things to consider are how long does the race association retain the rights to a cars representation once the season that cars registered season is over. Does the association hold the cars right for 5 years after that season has finished, 7 years, 10 years. We don't know the specifics. All we can do is highlight the basics and what the variables can be and then make an educated guess at what PD has rights to.

If PD arn't going to use anything but cars and drivers from a single season of NASCAR there is absolutely no reason for them to license anything outside of that seasons cars and drivers. It would only cost them more. Just because one game licensed A, B and C doesn't mean that every game that licenses A must also have B and C licensed but just chose not to use them. It simply doesn't work that way.

 

[MatskiMonk]

A License can inlcude as little or as much as the license holder offers.

A series name is registered, the license holder has to grant permission (a license)...
... this can just be as simple as the right to use the name "SuperGT"

The tracks are licensed by the track owners, the car designs are licensed by the people that registered their designs, the car brands are registered by the car manufacturers.

it goes on..

You can own any one, or all these licenses, but it in no way grants permission to use anything outside of the specific scope of the license.

 

[Raagentreg]

Man, you need to see this guy Here channel on youtube, I just LOVE super GT!
The cars are so much more advanced than wttc or fia gt, they are close to LMP cars as it get's.
It's a shame we can't watch those races on Euro sport

I also love JGTC/super GT and want to watch this season, and then go and race the cars on GT5 *glares at PD", but on a side note, does anyone know where you can watch it in Europe?