Looking at getting new video card

[=V8 Power=]

Well I went over to my friend's house today and he has had an alienware dekstop for a long time now. Today I played it for the first time and was playing BF 2142. The difference between his and mine was night a day. So now I am looking at getting a new graphics card. I want to be able to run BF2 and BF2142 on high settings. Right now heres my specs

AMD 3500+
2 GB DDR RAM
ATI VisionTek Xtasy X300SE
200GB HD

My video card I have now is just a cheapy $100 card. Most people I talk to say nVidia is better than ATi is this true? Also whats the cheapest card I could get that would run BF 2142 graphics on high? I also have a PCI-Express slot.

 

[Revolution.]

A GeForce 7600GT is a very good card which provides alot of bang for buck. I don't know whether you'd be able to run BF2142 or BF2 on high (unfortunately, I haven't played either ), but you'd certainly get a big performance boost from the X300 which you have currently.

 

[toyomatt84]

With the G80 chip nVidia's coming out at the end of November, I would wait if I were you. The introduction of the 8800-series cards will reduce the pricing on currently available cards, and will give you more options to play with. Plus, the G80 is the first directX 10 optimized cards (meaning they'll be suited and ready for the launch of Vista).

 

[Circle T]

Plus, the G80 is the first directX 10 optimized cards (meaning they'll be suited and ready for the launch of Vista).

They will be DX10 compliant. But, as far as I've heard, they will do nothing more than currently-available DX9 cards with regards to Vista. I mean, you can run Vista, with full Aero, on Intel motherboards with integrated video. I've seen Vista RC2 running with full-everything on a Mac Mini, which uses Intel GMA950, and it ran squeaky-clean quick. As I understand it, DX10 is almost entirely geared toward gaming, so these new DX10 cards are going to do nothing for Vista that can't already be accomplished now with current hardware.

On the topic at hand, I wouldn't worry too much about "nVidia vs ATI" for this. I find both to be very similar, from my experience with them. On the ATI side, the X800XL cards can be found for roughly $175. Those are very nice, with 256MB of memory and 256-bit memory interface. On the nVidia side, the GeForce 6800GT can be found for similar prices, with similar specs on the memory. Both of those are basically slower clocked versions of the high-end cards of the time. So, they run very well, and overclock nicely. I haven't played BF2142, but I would imagine those cards would do quite well. And, all while coming in under $200 easilly.

CT

 

[toyomatt84]

Vista will run farely similar, when comparing a dX9 card to a dX10 card, but there will be subtle differences. I believe the abilities that Cleartype and other desktop modifiers (built-in to the OS) will run smoother, and have greater adjustability with the dX10 cards (since Microsoft did mention that you'd need a dX10 card to fully enjoy the desktop features of the OS, a while back).

I've played the beta-release of 2142 with my PCI-Express 6800GT, and I can NOT run it at high settings, without getting unacceptable frame rates. And, that's with a Zalman cooler and slight overclocking. So, since the OP wanted to know a card that could handle the higher settings, the 6800GT falls short. But, then again, the card is quite dated (in terms of graphics cards).

Now, not to change topic on my post yet again, the OP wanted to know about the best "Gaming Card" he could get, and there's simply no comparison of the quality that a dX10-optimized card will bring, when you compare it to the dX9 cards available. You'd be mistaken, if you think that the current cards available will even keep up with the next gen. cards in games that feature dX10 content. I don't know about you, but if I was forking over hundreds of dollars, I'd want the product to last a little bit longer than a month, before being considered inadequate for the next gen. games. Just my $.02, though.

 

[Circle T]

He was looking for a cheap card that can run the BF games at higher settings. Unless I'm mistaken, you don't need a DX10 card to run BF games. Sure, those cards are going to be nice. But, they are not going to be cheap, which is what he was looking for.

If the OP gave a $$$ amount he was willing to spend, I will gladly give more suggestions. But until then, for a good cheaper card, the 6800 or X800 cards will do well. Its just the balancing act you have to play. Games run on high settings need cards with high price tags. If you want to save some $$$, you will have to sacrifice some settings. But, those cards should do ok.

As for Vista, if you can show me anything that says Vista will run better with DX10, I'd love to see it. Everything I've seen just says you need a DX9 card with roughly 128MB to work well. But even then, as I said, I've seen Vista RC2 running with Aero on a Mac Mini, and it ran perfectly. Unless there is some yet-unseen magic feature in Vista that needs DX10, you will be fine with current DX9 hardware.

CT

 

[=V8 Power=]

Well for price: $300 is prob the most I am willing to pay.

What kind of price do you think the DX10 cards will be running at? I am willing to pay a little more if its going to last a longer time and provide better quality graphics.

 

[Circle T]

Well, that is better. A $300 graphics card will get you a pretty good card. At that price, you can get either a GeForce 7950GT or ATI X1900XT. Both are very nice cards, and looking at reviews for both, they will run BF at very good frame rates.

The one benefit the 7950GT has though, is that its a 512MB card, over the 256MB X1900XT. Thats not a HUGE thing now, but down the road, more memory will pay off. So, in the end, I would look at finding a nice nVidia GeForce 7950GT. A quick look at NewEgg shows them coming in between $270 and $290, depending on brand and bundled extras. Either way, that would fit the bill nicely.

And honestly, I wouldn't really worry that much about DX10 stuff just yet. Sure, it is the future, and we know its coming. But, for a good while, games are going to still run on DX9, so you'll be fine. You might not get all the flash and dash as you would with DX10 and a compatible card. But, the game will play.

I have no clue what prices are going to be for the DX10 cards. The nVidia 8800 series are the only ones officially seen yet. And, I wouldn't rule out $500+ prices for them. Hard to say, because official prices haven't been announced, as far as I've seen. But either way, for now, a DX10 card is going to be mainly for bleeding-edge users wanting every single feature and setting turned up. The 7950GT will do you just fine with BF, and a very good while into the future.

CT

 

[=V8 Power=]

I didn't realize this before. But looking on newegg, it appers many different companies use the chipsets of the big 2 manufacturers. Is there any one good company. I've heard alot from BFG. The 7950GT looks like an amazing card from what I've read. People say they get 100+fps on maxxed out BF2 graphics.

 

[Circle T]

Most, not all, but many of the graphics card makers are just using the standard design of the card. So, a 7950GT from either PNY, eVGA, or XFX will all be the same card. The differences come from what they bundle in with the card. Some have games, some don't. Some games included are good, some aren't.

Thats the main thing. But other times, the cards themselves will be overclocked from the manufacturer. The stock speeds of the 7950GT is 550mhz core, 1400mhz RAM. But, you will see some cards that will have speeds of 600mhz core and 1500mhz RAM. That is the same card as a normal 7950GT, they just overclock it for you, and will warrant it at those speeds.

So really, there is no difference. Just depends on how much extra crap you want with the card itself in the bundle. And then, how fast you want the card from the manufacturer. You can certainly overclock it yourself. But, if you don't want to do that, you can get an OC'd card and run with it. Up to you. I'd personally just find the cheapest 7950GT I could find, and overclock it myself.

CT

 

[=V8 Power=]

Well after reading some reviews about the BFG and others being noisy because of their fans, I found XFX which uses a massive heatsink. Not only does it come nicely OCed, but it is virtually silent due to no fans. I'm not sure if my cases airflow is good enough for this card though. I can get my CPU temps down to 86F.

 

[Burnout]

Well after reading some reviews about the BFG and others being noisy because of their fans, I found XFX which uses a massive heatsink. Not only does it come nicely OCed, but it is virtually silent due to no fans. I'm not sure if my cases airflow is good enough for this card though. I can get my CPU temps down to 86F.

A 7950GT is a good choice; I recently built a computer for a friend of mine with one. It ran every game I threw at it flawlessly (Quake 4, etc), cranked of course. I don't believe you'll run into a case air-flow issue, as long as there is any air-flow at all. However, if this is a pre-manufactured PC, your power supply may need to be upgraded. If this is the case, a 450 Watt + would be sufficient.

I personally have an X1900GT. While it's not on the same level as the X1900XT, it's certainly not a slacker. I recently got it from NewEgg, after rebate, for $175 (mind you, it's a $300 card on NewEgg). It isn't quite as the 7950GT, but I paid over $100 less than he did, so I'm happy. So far, I've run every game I've tried at either High or Ultra settings, depending on what the game allows. Mind you, that's not small task, as I have a monitor with a 1680x1050 resolution, and I play all of the games at maximum-resolution. Where I run into problems is with more than 2x anti-aliasing on modern games at full resolution (F.E.A.R, for example).

The only reason you may want to wait until the next generation of video cards come out is the price cuts on the current cards. The new cards themselves will be assuredly buggy, the power-supply requirements for them are insane, and they'll definitely be pricey. However, if you find a card you like for a price you can afford now, I see no reason not to get it. The price cuts won't be that huge.

 

[=V8 Power=]

Well right now I have a 300 watt power supply. I do have 2 empty power connectors that I would need to run the grahpics card though. Do you think 300 is enough?

Another thing, do you think I will start running into a bottleneck with my processor. I have an AMD 64 3500. Is it up to the task of running games at max graphics levels?

 

[Evolution.]

300W is not enough to run anything. I didn't even know people still used under 450W these days

I would recommend getting a 500W+ power supply at minimum if you're planning on upgrading to a 7950GT. You'll find yourself experiencing random shutdowns with anything less.

And yes, your processor is quite the bottleneck. If you have Socket 939 or AM2 (probably so), you won't need to worry about another motherboard (that is, if you are really concerned about your performance). If you don't (like me, I have some odd unknown socket Barton core CPU that absolutely nobody makes motherboards for), then you may want to consider a complete PC revision.

And, on the topic of factory overclocking, don't go for it. If you have an option between non-OC'd and factory-OC'd, go with the stock. Factory OC cards, in my and many other's experiences, tend to be quite unstable and unreliable. If you want to do overclocking, buy an aftermarket cooler and DIY at home. It takes maybe 30 minutes of your time (more if you are fine tuning it to every last megahertz) to overclock, and maybe 20 to install the aftermarket cooling (even if you don't know what you are doing).

Honestly, In my experiences, nVidia is ahead in the gaming industry while ATi is best if you are doing things like rendering, Photoshop, etc. I would highly suggest a 78xx or 79xx series card. You may want to wait until the G80 chip is released (you'll see a good $35-$50+ price drop) before you buy a card, though. You'll save yourself alot of pain and suffering when you realize that the $350 card you bought is now $275 when the G80 chipset is unleashed.

 

[TopHat]

I use a ATI Radion X1300 Pro, and It does very well.

 

[Burnout]

300W is not enough to run anything. I didn't even know people still used under 450W these days

I would recommend getting a 500W+ power supply at minimum if you're planning on upgrading to a 7950GT. You'll find yourself experiencing random shutdowns with anything less.

And yes, your processor is quite the bottleneck. If you have Socket 939 or AM2 (probably so), you won't need to worry about another motherboard (that is, if you are really concerned about your performance). If you don't (like me, I have some odd unknown socket Barton core CPU that absolutely nobody makes motherboards for), then you may want to consider a complete PC revision.

And, on the topic of factory overclocking, don't go for it. If you have an option between non-OC'd and factory-OC'd, go with the stock. Factory OC cards, in my and many other's experiences, tend to be quite unstable and unreliable. If you want to do overclocking, buy an aftermarket cooler and DIY at home. It takes maybe 30 minutes of your time (more if you are fine tuning it to every last megahertz) to overclock, and maybe 20 to install the aftermarket cooling (even if you don't know what you are doing).

Honestly, In my experiences, nVidia is ahead in the gaming industry while ATi is best if you are doing things like rendering, Photoshop, etc. I would highly suggest a 78xx or 79xx series card. You may want to wait until the G80 chip is released (you'll see a good $35-$50+ price drop) before you buy a card, though. You'll save yourself alot of pain and suffering when you realize that the $350 card you bought is now $275 when the G80 chipset is unleashed.

A 500+ Watt powersupply is most definitely not neccessary, and would be a waste of money in my opinion (unless, of course, you get excited by large power supplies, in which case by all means buy whatever size your heart desires). The most important thing when selecting a power supply is not how many watts it has, but rather what quality it is. Again though, whatever your heart desires.

As far as pre-overclocked video cards are concerned, think about this: BFG offers a lifetime, no questions asked warrenty on all of their video cards, overclocked or otherwise. What does that mean for you? Your card is faster than stock a stock card under warrenty; nice little feature to have.

When deciding whether to go with an ATi or nVidia card, just pick whatever card in your selected price range runs the games you currently play better than the other. Each manufacture have their own strengths and weaknesses, which you'll want to watch out for, however generally will come in rather close to eachother in terms of performance.

A 3500+ is enough to get started, but if you're really into games, you'll want to look into upgrading it when possible. Like MachOne said, depending on your socket it may be pretty, or it may not be. What you're looking for in your case is a socket 939 or AM2.

 

[=V8 Power=]

Ya as of right now, I'm going to prob go with a BFG or XFX 7950GT. (im leaning towards the BFG because of the warrenty and because it uses fans). I'm going to keep my current powersupply. If it goes out I'll just get a better one.

I think I'm going to also keep my processor, maybe next year I'll look at getting a
AMD 4400 socket 939.

 

[Evolution.]

I'm going to keep my current powersupply. If it goes out I'll just get a better one.

You might regret that decision when you fry your motherboard from overvoltage.

I mean, really, a 450W power supply would be sufficient.

Sunbeam 450W Modular PSU

$45 for a good quality 450W power supply. It's modular, which will keep down on case clutter and make your life much easier when installing it. I suggest shelling out the extra bucks for a decent power supply. A little insurance never hurt anyone.

 

[=V8 Power=]

You might regret that decision when you fry your motherboard from overvoltage.

I mean, really, a 450W power supply would be sufficient.

Sunbeam 450W Modular PSU

$45 for a good quality 450W power supply. It's modular, which will keep down on case clutter and make your life much easier when installing it. I suggest shelling out the extra bucks for a decent power supply. A little insurance never hurt anyone.

Hmm...thats a good find. 3 fans on it make it nice

I've actually never changed a PSU. What do u mean by moduler?

 

[Casio]

Modular means you only use the power connectors you require. So you're not left with a bunch of ugly loose ends and tangles.

Example:
All

Or None

And the cables aren't built into it.

 

[Evolution.]

Hmm...thats a good find. 3 fans on it make it nice

I've actually never changed a PSU. What do u mean by moduler?

The number of fans isn't important. It's the overall quality. My AeroCool 450W SilverLine has 2 fans, and has never peaked over 25*C (if that). It stays extremely cool and is very silent.

And, Casio has pretty much covered modular PSU's. You plug in what cords you need into the PSU, then into their designated plugs on the motherboard or peripheral, and then stow away the other cords. It's clean, easy, and prevents clutter.

 

[Burnout]

The number of fans isn't important. It's the overall quality. My AeroCool 450W SilverLine has 2 fans, and has never peaked over 25*C (if that). It stays extremely cool and is very silent.

And, Casio has pretty much covered modular PSU's. You plug in what cords you need into the PSU, then into their designated plugs on the motherboard or peripheral, and then stow away the other cords. It's clean, easy, and prevents clutter.

Gotta work them hard to make them hot.

While my PSU doesn't have a tempurature guage, it certainly warms up.. That's probably because of what I'm running though:

Pentium D 2.8Ghz @ 3.85Ghz (120 watts alone)
X1900GT, X800GTO
2x250GB RAID0, 1x80GB
Watercooling kit
6 80mm fans
DVDRW

Those are the most important power consuming devices, amazing thing is I'm only running on a 430watt PSU.👍

 

[Evolution.]

Heat really isn't a big focus on power supplies.

I'm mainly worried about his low wattage. While the NewEgg requirements (which when it comes to video cards, they are almost never accurate) state that a 350W PSU is perfectly fine, anything under 450W is taking a very big risk, especially with a card as powerful as a 7950GT (which consumes a hungry 82 Watts by itself). $45 is nothing for a bit of reassurance that you aren't risking having your motherboard turn into a pile of molten silicon.

Your current listed specs (after upgrade):

BFG GeForce 7950GT: 82W

AMD Athlon 64 3500+: 112W (Idle)

2GB of DDR RAM: 20-40W Presumably

Motherboard: 25 Watts Presumably

Fans: 10W total Presumably.

That's already nearly 270W (keep in mind, that is only including the above listed, and not optical drives, sound cards, ethernet cards, etc.). Now, while this is an estimate at peak power, it's still awfully close to your 300W suggested maximum (considering your power supply probably has peak range of 350W).

Now, these are all rough estimates (except the video card and CPU), but it's still a good idea to spend the $45 for a new power supply.

 

[=V8 Power=]

Yep thats true. Add to your list 2 optical drives, an ethernet card, and some other things. I think I'm going to look into a new PSU.

I would also like to put a fan on the front of my case to pull air into it. The only problem is there are no holes to mount the fan. There are plenty of air holes but they are all to big.

 

[Burnout]

Heat really isn't a big focus on power supplies.

I'm mainly worried about his low wattage. While the NewEgg requirements (which when it comes to video cards, they are almost never accurate) state that a 350W PSU is perfectly fine, anything under 450W is taking a very big risk, especially with a card as powerful as a 7950GT (which consumes a hungry 82 Watts by itself). $45 is nothing for a bit of reassurance that you aren't risking having your motherboard turn into a pile of molten silicon.

Your current listed specs (after upgrade):

BFG GeForce 7950GT: 82W

AMD Athlon 64 3500+: 112W (Idle)

2GB of DDR RAM: 20-40W Presumably

Motherboard: 25 Watts Presumably

Fans: 10W total Presumably.

That's already nearly 270W (keep in mind, that is only including the above listed, and not optical drives, sound cards, ethernet cards, etc.). Now, while this is an estimate at peak power, it's still awfully close to your 300W suggested maximum (considering your power supply probably has peak range of 350W).

Now, these are all rough estimates (except the video card and CPU), but it's still a good idea to spend the $45 for a new power supply.

112 watts idle? Where on earth did you get that number?

I don't know if you read my post or not, but my overclocked Pentium D, a dual-core processor well known for consuming enormous amounts of power, takes approximately 120 watts under load. That's a 2.8Ghz 1.22V stock processor running at 3.85Ghz 1.45V. At most, his current processor takes 70 watts, and that's being generous.

One again, the most important thing on a power supply is not how many watts it’s rated for, but rather its quality (if anything, the amount of amps available per rail is more important than the watts). A quality 300 watt power supply would be an ample amount of power for stable operation of his current PC with a 7950GT and some upgrades. I believe you're assuming that because it's a high-end graphics card, it requires an excessive amount of power, however in truth the 7900 series video cards is really relatively proficient in that particular department; conversely, ATi’s current high-end offerings are a bit on the needy side of the market.

My advice would be to try it with your current power supply if you’d like, but in the event of random shutdowns to upgrade as soon as possible. While the chance of a PSU burning up your computer due to power spikes while going out is unlikely, it’s better to be safe than sorry when dealing with a $300 video card.

Nevertheless, it’s not a bad idea to buy a nicer PSU if you feel like it. They’re one of those components that you can carry over when you do an overhaul on your computer, presuming you buy a nice PSU.