Looking for advice BMW E30.

300zxfairman

300zxfairman

569
Germany
Germany
Srweber88
Srweber88
Ok so this weekend I made an impulse buy
I bought this BMW E30 with a blown motor .
Not a big issue for me I want a project car !
The thing is I'm new to the bmw world...
My thoughts were 95-02 m3 v6 swap with around 350-450hp .
That's where I'm looking for help does anyone have experience with these swaps or maybe a better motor?
Is that too much hp for that kind of car does anyone here own a e30 that's been worked on ?
Any and all ideas and advice are appreciated!
 

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I've driven an E30 with an S52 swap. The engine was mostly stock with a little bit of light work done to the intake side, a chip reflash, and a catless exhaust. I would imagine it made somewhere around 250-260bhp.

This car was initially built with stock E30 325i underpinnings, and it honestly was not great to drive in that state. The owner ended up putting M3 brakes and full PSS setup on it to tighten up the body and give it some stopping power. After that, the car was/is great fun. I honestly can not imagine that adding 100bhp to it would improve it in any meaningful way.

I drive an E46 M3 every day. I am used to having 333bhp on tap all the time, but that is in a car that weighs 3400lbs and puts it down through 275mm rears. An E30 like yours should be nearly 1000lbs lighter, and unless you're planning to flare it you'll be running 215 (maybe 225)mm rears. You are not going to need 350bhp for that car to feel more than quick enough.

I don't know what your experience level is with performance cars, so I won't say outright not to do it. All I will say is you should probably build up to it. Start with a stock S52, see how it feels. You're probably going to want to at least pause there while you get the chassis to a point that it can cope with the S52. After that, if you want more power, there are (expensive) options to do so.

No reason to rush into it. Take it slow and get a feel for that car at each stage of the build. I think you'll be happy you did.


Also no M3 has ever had a V6. All 6-cylinder M3s are Straight-6s 👍
 
HighSeasHoMastr
I've driven an E30 with an S52 swap. The engine was mostly stock with a little bit of light work done to the intake side, a chip reflash, and a catless exhaust. I would imagine it made somewhere around 250-260bhp.

This car was initially built with stock E30 325i underpinnings, and it honestly was not great to drive in that state. The owner ended up putting M3 brakes and full PSS setup on it to tighten up the body and give it some stopping power. After that, the car was/is great fun. I honestly can not imagine that adding 100bhp to it would improve it in any meaningful way.

I drive an E46 M3 every day. I am used to having 333bhp on tap all the time, but that is in a car that weighs 3400lbs and puts it down through 275mm rears. An E30 like yours should be nearly 1000lbs lighter, and unless you're planning to flare it you'll be running 215 (maybe 225)mm rears. You are not going to need 350bhp for that car to feel more than quick enough.

I don't know what your experience level is with performance cars, so I won't say outright not to do it. All I will say is you should probably build up to it. Start with a stock S52, see how it feels. You're probably going to want to at least pause there while you get the chassis to a point that it can cope with the S52. After that, if you want more power, there are (expensive) options to do so.

No reason to rush into it. Take it slow and get a feel for that car at each stage of the build. I think you'll be happy you did.


Also no M3 has ever had a V6. All 6-cylinder M3s are Straight-6s 👍
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Ok thanks
Yeah imma definitely take it slow .
I want it to be fast ,fun, loud when need be lol and reliable.
Plus I'm in Germany so it has to get Tüv so I wanna build it right no shortcuts and later frustrations.
You right lol I cant speak of how much they weigh but thinking about it 220-250 hp should be good .
Putting a turbo on it is also somthing I'm thinking about so maybe m3 engine isn't needed to achieve that.. Oh man its gonna be alot of decisions but thats what makes project cars great..
 
I think what @HighSeasHoMastr said about the power level necessary is spot on. I've ridden in plenty of swapped E30s, and with roughly 250 hp, it's plenty quick.

A S50/S52 swap is nowadays, fairly common, with a lot of folks having blazed that trail. There's plenty of information online in various forums. There's an E30 specific forum online, and at least that, has tons and tons of information on all sorts of engine swaps. I suggest you spend some time reading through those threads if you haven't already.
 
I’m guessing you’re in the US so you can’t get a proper S50/S52?
 
Well his icon says Germany, so I'm going to assume Germany.

Personally I think a Honda F20c (or K20) is a better fit for the E30 chassis than a big, heavy, iron block inline 6. Isn't the S52 around 500lbs/230kgs?
 
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An S50/52 can’t be that much heavier than an M20 can it?
 
To be fair an F20C would be like an S14 in race spec in terms of character.
 
Idk. The s14 has more torque and peaks sooner than the F20c, and honestly, more pedigree. And racing characteristics are great, for race cars. But are you really going to be running up to redline every gear shift in your street car?
Personally. I am on board with the I6 out of the second gen M3 cars. Plenty of power with smoother characteristics than a 4 banger. Great engine for a sporty road car.
 
There's a really cool, old video of an E36 with an F20C in it on YouTube. I'd certainly rather that than any BMW 4 pot.
 
Rallywagon
Idk. The s14 has more torque and peaks sooner than the F20c, and honestly, more pedigree. And racing characteristics are great, for race cars. But are you really going to be running up to redline every gear shift in your street car?
Personally. I am on board with the I6 out of the second gen M3 cars. Plenty of power with smoother characteristics than a 4 banger. Great engine for a sporty road car.
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The lack of low end torque on the F20C is definitely valid, especially for a street car. I'm going to revise and suggest a K24 with work done. They can 'easily' pump out 250hp+, rev nearly as high as an F20, and with a pretty strong torque curve to boot. Oh, and sound not too dissimilar to a Ferrari 458.

 
Eunos_Cosmo
The lack of low end torque on the F20C is definitely valid, especially for a street car. I'm going to revise and suggest a K24 with work done. They can 'easily' pump out 250hp+, rev nearly as high as an F20, and with a pretty strong torque curve to boot. Oh, and sound not too dissimilar to a Ferrari 458.

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Was that video for just the sound?
Honestly, I don't fault you for the Honda engine stuff. I just balk at both replacing the bmw engine with stone something not bmw, and that replacement being a Honda engine. If I went that route personally, it would definitely be the 2.3l EcoBoost. Same price range and makes 300+ out of the gate. Been looking at them (and boosted Limas) to replace the 4.6 in my Cougar.
 
Rallywagon
Was that video for just the sound?
Honestly, I don't fault you for the Honda engine stuff. I just balk at both replacing the bmw engine with stone something not bmw, and that replacement being a Honda engine. If I went that route personally, it would definitely be the 2.3l EcoBoost. Same price range and makes 300+ out of the gate. Been looking at them (and boosted Limas) to replace the 4.6 in my Cougar.
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My reasoning: The best incarnation of the E30 was the M3, especially in racing trim. It's a relatively lightweight, short-wheelbase car. The idea of putting a long, iron block inline 6 in an E30 (yes, I realize a lot of them came in that very configuration) seems antithetical to the E30 platform...it's not just the extra weight, its that the weight is needlessly forward in the chassis. The problem with sticking with BMW and following this ethos is the S14 is a rare engine and, realistically, building one up seems difficult and expensive. A K24 is quite similar to the S14 but probably has better tractability (modern ignition & fuel delivery), more torque, and is much easier to get ahold of and tune. And, to my ears, a K24 sounds better/more exciting than just about any inline-6 short of an M88. An S52 might be a better engine than a K24, but a K24 + E30 is a better package than an S52 + E30, in my opinion. The K24-E30 seems like it would be an utterly brilliant car to drive. The responsiveness of that engine, especially tuned, is far beyond what a turbo engine could deliver, and if the rest of the car is brought up to the same standard, it could be a spectacularly good thing to drive. Think Alphaholics GTA.
 
Eunos_Cosmo
My reasoning: The best incarnation of the E30 was the M3, especially in racing trim. It's a relatively lightweight, short-wheelbase car. The idea of putting a long, iron block inline 6 in an E30 (yes, I realize a lot of them came in that very configuration) seems antithetical to the E30 platform...it's not just the extra weight, its that the weight is needlessly forward in the chassis. The problem with sticking with BMW and following this ethos is the S14 is a rare engine and, realistically, building one up seems difficult and expensive. A K24 is quite similar to the S14 but probably has better tractability (modern ignition & fuel delivery), more torque, and is much easier to get ahold of and tune. And, to my ears, a K24 sounds better/more exciting than just about any inline-6 short of an M88. An S52 might be a better engine than a K24, but a K24 + E30 is a better package than an S52 + E30, in my opinion. The K24-E30 seems like it would be an utterly brilliant car to drive. The responsiveness of that engine, especially tuned, is far beyond what a turbo engine could deliver, and if the rest of the car is brought up to the same standard, it could be a spectacularly good thing to drive. Think Alphaholics GTA.
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Yeah, I mean... sound is pretty subjective. I personally think high performance NA I4s sound like screeching $#!%. I would take a boost 4 grumbling and popping with anti lag all day. But. Again, we are talking street cars. As far as weight goes, you should perhaps take a look at how much an s52 weighs, then maybe look to see how much a K series weighs. They are a full 100 lbs heavier than the bimmer engine. And the s52 makes that 240 hp in stock form nonetheless. On the street at the very least, a stock I6 makes more sense than a built k24. You lose all of the drivability of the stock k24 once you start swapping cams and raising compression.
 
Rallywagon
Yeah, I mean... sound is pretty subjective. I personally think high performance NA I4s sound like screeching $#!%. I would take a boost 4 grumbling and popping with anti lag all day. But. Again, we are talking street cars. As far as weight goes, you should perhaps take a look at how much an s52 weighs, then maybe look to see how much a K series weighs. They are a full 100 lbs heavier than the bimmer engine. And the s52 makes that 240 hp in stock form nonetheless. On the street at the very least, a stock I6 makes more sense than a built k24. You lose all of the drivability of the stock k24 once you start swapping cams and raising compression.
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A fully dressed K24 with transmission is 403lbs, with the engine itself at 280. As far as I can tell, an S52 is around 330lbs for the short block and 400+ for the long block, not including transmission. The iron motors (S52 is aluminium I believe) are about 50lbs heavier.
 
Eunos_Cosmo
A fully dressed K24 with transmission is 403lbs, with the engine itself at 280. As far as I can tell, an S52 is around 330lbs for the short block and 400+ for the long block, not including transmission. The iron motors (S52 is aluminium I believe) are about 50lbs heavier.
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Fair enough, definitely didnt dig far enough into the posts when I was looking. Regardless. I'd take the extra 100lb difference to run the I6.
 
Weight balance and underhood space are two big pluses.
BMW-E30-with-a-K20-Inline-Four-05.jpg

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Full disclosure, that K20 is a bit extreme, but that's the only picture I could find that highlighted the difference between the two.
 
-Fred-
Weight balance and underhood space are two big pluses.
BMW-E30-with-a-K20-Inline-Four-05.jpg

maxresdefault.jpg


Full disclosure, that K20 is a bit extreme, but that's the only picture I could find that highlighted the difference between the two.
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This is why I adore inline-4 engines. And rotaries. And V6s. :) Flat-engines tend to create issues with suspension geometry...but they usually lower the CG enough to compensate. They get a pass too.
 
The M20 that were available in E30s were already iron-block inline 6. Since he's in Germany, he would be going with a true S50 if he decided to get one from an E36 M3. The S52 was North America only. The S52 should be around 50 lbs heavier, and the S50 would be more like 100 lbs heavier. Just power/weight, if you're concerned, people have been putting in S54s into E30s. S54 will be significantly more work to get to run right. As with anything though, you start adding significantly more power, you'll need to beef up other driveline components.

K20 would be interesting, but the S50/S52 is a fairly simple swap. So I think part of the decision would be how much time, money and energy he wants to put into the swap.

Everything I hear about E30 M3 and the S14 engine is that it's really only fun when you are wringing it out.
 
I didnt even take country into consideration. Will TUV certify a car with an engine swap? I know Germany has very particular rules about modifying cars.
 

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