Lotus Carlton

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I was mooching through the used car showrooms the other day, and found myself a Lotus Carlton, a black Lotus Carlton nontheless! Needless to say, I bought it. Twenty odd thousand credits i think...... well spent tho.

An oil change and every conceivable tune up later (I mean the works, body straightening & stiffening included), I rolled it on down to "The Ring".

First lap 7.42, faster than my maxxed M5.

A bit of suspension, LSD and transmision tweaking later.....

7.31, faster than my Skyline.

With a bit more fiddling here and there (and not doing a ballet on the grass), I think that a sub 7 minute is well on the cards, not bad for a car weighing in at 1373kg's, with 38753.2 miles on the clock, and being 4 years older than my daughter (1990)!

Mind you it has got 646bhp@5200rpm and 652.99ft.lb@4200rpm

Stay tuned for more details and if anyone else has one of these beasts please post your experiences.
 
Never knew it was that good...I'll need to add one of those to my collection of cars.

But...this thread does not belong here. This is the Car Tuning & Settings board. This belongs in the main GT4 board, because it is not about tuning or drifting, does not about photos, and isn't a long detailed write-up. If you want to keep this thread from being locked, you'll need to post here your settings that you used to get your Nurburgring laptime.

By the way, welcome to GTPlanet. Enjoy your stay here. :)

Duck7892
 
O.K, here is the settings used for my lap time;

Racing Exhaust,
Chipped,
Racing/Qualify tyres,
NOS,
Turbine Stage 4,
Intercooler large,
Racing brakes with controller,
Racing suspension,
Fully custom tranny,
Racing Flywheel,
Triple plate clutch,
Carbon shaft,
Fully custom LSD.

Suspension (all figures are front/rear),
Spring rate 10.0/7.5
Ride hight 94/94
Damper (bounce) 5/5
Damper (rebound) 10/10
Camber 2.5/1.7
Toe -1/0
Stabiliser 5/5

Gear ratios,
Auto settings 20

LSD (RWD car)
Initial 13
Accel 45
Decel 25




She's still a proper handful tho, loves to spin under braking.......
 

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With many mods and about 520hp i did a lap of 7.27 using R2. When i bought every upgrade available the car became undrivible and i havent driven it since. Im gona give those settings a try.
 
:yuck: nothing special about those settings the cars handling wasnt better. I got a lap of 7;31.759. I should try to change the break balance and the downforce. BTW i was using R2s again.
 
speed_freak
:yuck: nothing special about those settings the cars handling wasnt better. I got a lap of 7;31.759. I should try to change the break balance and the downforce. BTW i was using R2s again.

I've just done a 7.05.931 lap. Not one spin either. I used R5 tyres again so maybe the grip really helps.

You cant change the downforce on this car BTW.
 
with this settings carlton is a mad drifter with tons of ovesteer also with tcs on and a very fun car to drive :)

suspension

14.0/12.6
84/84
damper bounce 6/6
rebound 9/10
camb 2.5/1.8
stab 5/5

tcs 1-5 ( it only controls the amount of ovesteer )
brake 6/5
lsd 15/45/25

hope someone will have fun :)
 
I love the Lotus Carlton. Have not been driving for some time, but have an 7.01 at Nurburgring. I think I can press the time down to 6.45-6.30 ! Did 8.02 with the LotusCarlton 100% original, but that round was no good. In original the car is fast for being 15 years old! (And I had 388,67 km/t at the test cours).
 
Ok, now i'm getting desperate! I REALLY want the lotus carlton! :nervous:
Do you guys remember approximatley when it appeared in the used car lot (date?) I'm guessing it would be in the early 90's section?
Thanks
Dan
 
Woah, got me a Lotus Carlton Yesterday. Indeed it was in the '90s section of used cars. But i forgot to check for the date :indiff: cause i was so exited to drive the legend. I didn't upgrade anything except oilchange. Car is all stock.

!Lotus_Carlton_90.jpg


[edit]
The PAL used cars database shows: List 90A, Lotus Carlton 1990, Available in week 14,15,27,32,37,41,44. Good luck!!!!


Here is info about Lotus Carlton: http://www.lotusespritworld.co.uk/LotusModels/LotusCarlton.html

Tsitate from the page:
Among other performance saloons of the time, only the BMW M5 came near the 377bhp Carlton's statistics, but the German machine was 1.3 secs slower to 60mph and 4.5 secs behind by 100mph. Even figures for serious supercars like the Ferrari Testarossa and Porsche 911 Turbo trailed in most areas, leaving only the Lamborghini Diablo as a true match in all-round performance.


Some of the shots i took: http://www.hot.ee/granturismo/
Some pics for preview:
lotus_carlton_90_preview2.jpg

lotus_carlton_90_preview.jpg
 
I just bought one of these; I'll have to try out the tuning. Shouldn't it technically be listed as a Vauxhall-Lotus Carlton, though, as opposed to simply a Lotus Carlton?
 
vic_bossen90
Sorry for the Off-topic. But doesn't that car look like a rebuilt Opel?
It's also called Lotus Omega. It's Opel's (or Vauxhalls's) model Omega that is rebuilt.

I bought second Lotus Carlton yesterday. I think i'm going to tune that one and leave the other one as stock :dopey:
 
Anyone have a set-up that doesnt involve silly amounts of oversteer?? :scared: I don't want to spin the thing every other corner... i like a loose back-end but I prefer to be able to catch it!
 
wow what sweet looking car man never new you could get it in black what day did you find the black one on i shall difinatly purchase this fine example :D
 
$u!$l!d3
wow what sweet looking car man never new you could get it in black what day did you find the black one on i shall difinatly purchase this fine example :D

It can't be had in any other colour apart from black...
 
Hi all..

About the oversteer. It's what makes the car fun. But, if you like, fiddle with the diff to get it more to your liking.

Acceleration
35 will make it wilder when powering out of the corners.
45 will make it more controlable.

On decceleration is even more delicate.
Lower values like 15 will make it wild under braking.
Very high values like 40 will make it hard to turn in.

It's up to you to find your correct diff settings.

And don't stiffen the suspension to much ! Or the rear will become "snapy" and you get "wild horse handling".

Burn,
GT4@89.3%
 
Well... now that you reminded me of it so I couldn't resist. I went at it and this is what I got as a result:

Stock (just gave the gremlins the day off):


Fully moded and tuned with:
- springs according to track and personal preference, but 4 points lower on the rear
- damper according to track and personal preference, but 2 points lower on the rear (same bound and rebound)
- camber Fr:3 / R:1 (more camber in the rear makes it more delicate to slide)
- diffs on Acc 35 / Decc 5:
- downforce max (almost forgot)


Oh, and don't use feint, brake slide, or e-brake. Just brake hard (don't leave it dragin' the front into the corner), point it in, and slam the gas. After that, control, control, control. It's a whole lotta fun.

For me this car is on the top 10 on pure driving pleasure. Thanks for reminding me of it ! Now I have 2. One stock and another fully moded. :)

Cheers,
Burn,
GT4@90,3%
 
RenesisEvo
It can't be had in any other colour apart from black...

Nope, it can't be had in any colour apart from very, very dark green (called Imperial Green). If you look carefully the Lotus Calton is actually dark metallic green, not black.

The following is an extract from a well respected Lotus Carlton owners site

"'They are all Black' . Wrong but an understandable mistake. All production cars are Imperial Green, which is a very dark green and looks black in anything but direct sunlight. Some of the pre-production cars were other colours, mostly silver, but these are not officially Lotus Carltons/Omegas, but are converted GSi3000's . Any car that isn't Imperial Green has either been resprayed, or it isn't a real LC."

Lotus Carlton Common Misconceptions
 
niall_uk
First lap 7.42, faster than my maxxed M5.

A bit of suspension, LSD and transmision tweaking later.....

7.31, faster than my Skyline.


7'17.951 with my Skyline :) I think that your Skyline needs some settings lol. Whats the top speed of your Skyline ?
 
I've also run across a website that compared the Lotus Carlton to the 1992-1994 Mercedes Benz 500E (& later E500).

BAHNSTORMERS by Roger Green EVO Magazine

The Lotus Carlton was the 180mph supersaloon that had Daily Mail readers spluttering into their cornflakes; the 500E was Mercedes' reply to the M5. Both are our sort of cars.

These are not ordinary machines. With combined totals of 703bhp and 773lb ft of torque, between them these two motoring leviathans can carry ten adults and their luggage to the far side of 170mph and in comfort. Massive numbers for massive cars, but one figure that's shrunk in the years since they were launched is the price tag. if you have 25,000 burning a hole in your pocket you could buy both and still have some petrol money left over.

The aggressive, heavily muscled lines of the Lotus Carlton and the massive press coverage surrounding its launch back in the early '90s ensured fame and no little notoriety. With 377bhp from its twin-turbocharged 3.6-litre straight-six and a top speed said to be around 180mph, it could out-run many of the Italian supercars of the same era and at 48,000 it cost a fraction of the price. Shocked Daily Mail readers took exception to its top speed, calling Vauxhall irresponsible for producing a car that they claimed was anti-social and a danger to society. The boys in the GM marketing office couldn't believe their luck.

The Mercedes 500E, by contrast, never made a single tabloid headline, though it packed a similar punch. A master of understatement, it could be mistaken by the uninitiated for a regular Stuttgart taxi. No wings, no spoilers, just gently flared wheelarches filled with 225/55 ZR16 Michelins. Under the bonnet sat a 5-litre V8 that originally found a home inside the 500SL. Here it made 326bhp, which easily powered the big saloon to its electronically restricted 155mph top speed.

Two very different variations on the supersaloon theme: Lotus Carlton/Omega wears its performance heart on its sleeve; 500E is the classic iron fist in a velvet glove. Both were designed to cruise the autobahn at absurdly high speed.

The 500E was Mercedes' answer to the 3.5-litre, 315bhp BMW M5 (see issues 5 and 32 for buying guide details). Inside, it could have been mistaken for a well-appointed 300E, although all the important optional extras, such as air-conditioning and electric everything, were fitted as standard. Get behind the wheel, mash the throttle and there was no doubt it was something special: 100mph came up in 14.7 seconds, which was remarkable for a car weighing over 1800kg.

A good Lotus Carlton can be bought now for as little as 12,000 in left-hand-drive form (this was the Continental version, known as the Lotus Omega). You have to pay considerably more for a rhd UK car - between 20,000 and 25,000. The 500E was only ever available as a left-hooker, with only a handful brought into the UK officially, and that has kept prices very low - 13,000 will bag you a good 'un.

So in terms of price and performance, these two supersaloons are pretty well matched, though their image and character are very different.

But let's face it, what matters most now is their real-world effectiveness. All that drama, power and class count for nothing if the cars are too expensive and unreliable to run. And the good news is that, despite being almost a decade old, both cars still come up to the mark. Of course you have to understand what you are taking on; both will cost substantially more to run than a new car of equal value, and you have to be able to separate the wheat from the chaff when you buy. Get it right though and, whichever you choose, you (and your four passengers) won't be disappointed.

EVOLUTION
The part that Lotus played in the development of the Carlton has been well documented; it is a far less well-known fact that Mercedes also received outside help with the 500E, in this case from Porsche. Based on the 300E that Mercedes had been building since 1986, each car made several journeys between the Stuttgart factory and Porsche's Rossle-Bau plant in Zuffenhausen, recently vacated by the 959. Each was built by hand and took 18 days to complete; more than 7000 examples were produced in this way between 1992 and 1994. When you consider the amount of effort that went into producing each one, the 57,000 price tag was understandable.

This car is badged Lotus Omega, which means it's the Carlton's left-hand-drive Continental cousin. Mechanically and performance-wise, they were identical. Left-hand-drive cars are considerably cheaper.

All Lotus Carltons began life on the Opel production line in Russelheim before being shipped to Hethel, where they were disassembled and given an official Lotus type number - 104.

Work began on the fastest Vauxhall ever in 1988, when Lotus (which at that time was GM-owned) was given a brief to produce a Carlton capable of completing the dash to 60mph in less than six seconds. Chief engineer Simon Wood quickly realised this required at least 360bhp and the best way to achieve it would be to add a couple of Garrett T25 turbochargers. Of course, it wasn't quite as straightforward as that, especially as Lotus had identified the "safe" specific output limit from an iron block as 100bhp/litre and the GSi engine was only 2969cc. Stroke was increased (there was no boring) to enlarge the displacement to 3.6 litres and the project was on.

Chassis development was left in the hands of Tony Shute and this was no small task. Front and rear geometry were altered, suspension components strengthened, and 17-inch wheels were fitted so that huge 13-inch ventilated brake discs with four-pot AP racing callipers could be bolted on to slow it all down again. The steering was also developed to improve feel - vital with this amount of power and no traction control. The six-speed ZF gearbox was chosen not because of the number of ratios, but because it was the only one available able to cope with the torque. The aerodynamic package achieved zero lift at both front and rear without increasing drag over the standard Carltons and, of course, endowed it with those brawny looks.

Wheelarches were slightly flared to cover the wider track and fatter rubber; with a slightly lower ride height too, the 500E exuded quiet menace.

Despite the visual restraint, the 500E also had rather more work than just a large engine installation. Stiffer, shorter springs were fitted, lowering the car by about an inch when compared with the 300E, and it was hydraulically self-levelling. Wider wheels and beefier brakes were fitted to keep everything in check and the track was increased by about 4cm at both the front and rear. The injection system was revised from that used in the SL500 to increase torque by 22lb ft, because obviously 332lb ft just wasn't enough.

The 500E was priced considerably higher than the BMW M5 (57,220 as opposed to 45,750) and it was also left-hand drive only, so unsurprisingly sales were slow. In fact, fewer than 150 were sold through the official dealer network in the UK, although more than 7000 were produced for the rest of Europe. The Lotus totals were also quite low; only 950 were ever produced and, of them, only 282 were right-hand drive UK examples (these were all built between 1990 and 1994). During its short run there were no significant changes made to the Carlton, but the 500E received a gentle facelift in August 1993 with a new grille in line with the rest of E-class range, while its name changed to E500.

DRIVING THEM TODAY
They were legends in their own lifetimes, but do they still hit the spot?

Despite the similarities in concept, these two are as different to drive as they are to look at. The Merc's impeccable build quality is obvious the moment you climb aboard. The odometer reads 108,000km, but it's hard to believe it's covered such a distance. The doors shut with bankvault solidity, the leather armchairs appear barely broken-in and all the switchgear feels satisfyingly robust. Twist the key and the huge V8 wakes so quietly that a passing pedestrian would never suspect the power now available under your right foot.

Around town the 500E rides superbly - smooth and comfortable with not a single rattle or squeak. The long gearing (only four ratios in the auto box, remember) means that the 0-30 is nothing particularly special and around town the 500E feels more limousine than sports saloon. It's only when the derestriction sign appears that the car really shines. And not just on motorways; the chassis has enough dynamic fluidity to push on in a way that's at odds with the size of the car.

Inside the Lotus, there's no hiding the fact that underneath it's still a ten-year-old Carlton, albeit a decently appointed one. Actually, there's something strangely appealing about driving a Vauxhall that's been on a course of steroids. James Waddington's car is one of the best examples around and, with the benefit of a recent respray, looks absolutely stunning.

The engine fires with more volume than the Merc's and burbles with more eagerness and urgency. There are other sounds, too - the fuel pump zizzes behind you, while the self-levelling suspension whirrs itself into the attack position. The clutch is heavy, but that's the only awkward part of the driving experience, and from 3000rpm as the turbines begin to spool up, you can hear the swell in power. We drove the car in the rain and in those conditions you're always aware of the torque passing through the rear wheels, but it's not intimidating - the feel through the wheel and seat leaves you in no doubt as to what's going on. The ride is firm, there are more rattles and the leather squeaks, but it's characterful. And when you do find somewhere to unleash the monumental performance, the rest of the world becomes nothing less than a blur.

Both of these cars felt as good as the day when they could still be bought new, which is why you'll probably find it absolutely impossible to prise them away from their very pleased-with-themselves owners.

Lotus looked every inch the 180mph rocketship it was; 500E retained the clean, understated lines of 300E.

COUNTERPOINTS
The first thing to check with both these cars is that they actually are what they purport to be. In the case of the Lotus there are many replicas around, so check all paperwork thoroughly and ensure that the chassis number starts with SC000019. A full service history is vital - both can present you with very big bills if services are missed or the quality of workmanship is not up to scratch. There are 16 authorized Lotus Carlton service departments dotted around the country, but any Mercedes dealer should be able to mollycoddle a 500E. Try and buy a car from someone who has owned for quite some time; there is usually a reason why certain cars change hands regularly. Also, as the value of the cars slide, they fall into the clutches of people who can afford to buy them but struggle with the running costs, so corners get cut. These owners rarely have garages large enough for these monsters and they deteriorate faster when left exposed to the elements. Some parts are now becoming difficult to get hold of, particularly body panels.

Engine
The biggest worry here is the timing chains on the Lotus Carlton. There are two and, if either snaps, the damage will cost at least 5000 to put right (if your luck really deserts you, it could be more than twice that). There is also no way of knowing when it will happen. The good news is that the chains can be replaced with stronger versions, at a cost of about 1000. Ideally find a car that has already had this work, or build it into the buying costs and get it done after purchase.

Never buy either of these cars if they have been "chipped". With the Lotus's turbos it's easy and cheap to up the boost to 500bhp or more, but remember that Lotus itself discovered the engine could not safety deal with more than 100bhp/litre and head gaskets often fail.

The 500E has been known to suffer from overheating, mainly because the engine bay is so full it is difficult to dissipate the heat, so by attempting to extract more from it the problem is accentuated. Even with an unmolested engine, high temperatures can be an issue if the car is used to extremes (such as track days), so any oil leaks should be treated suspiciously. The firewall often looks like it has been overheated, but they all tend to do that and it's not necessarily a sign that the engine has a problem. Regular servicing and oil changes will help prevent overheating.

There have been some instances of the fuel tank cracking on Lotus Carltons and replacements are expensive. The reason for the failure is usually that the charcoal canister used to ventilate the tank fails. It's worth having this checked out because a new canister is only 40.

Brakes/Steering
Both of these big, heavy cars work their brakes hard, and you should expect to have to replace the front discs as well as the pads at regular intervals - a major factor in the running costs, particularly with the Carlton and especially if you're into track days.

The 500E has a tendency to wear out its steering pump by 100,000 miles - often it is just a seal that fails, but occasionally it's the whole unit.

Transmission
The Lotus Carlton's hydraulic clutch has been through a number of revisions, and there have been instances of failures with all of them. It's not common but some bell housings have cracked (and they cost 600 to replace); pivots and bolts have also been known to snap. There's little you can check for without taking things apart, but it's worth bearing in mind.

The two gearboxes are very different, but both the heavy-duty six-speed ZF manual of the Norfolk machine and the four-speed auto have stood the tests of torque and time well and faults are rare.

Suspension
Examine the inside edges of the rear tyres on both cars. Excessive wear here is usually attributed to the self-levelling system not functioning correctly, so there'll be more to replace than just a pair of tyres. Replacing components can be an expensive business. That said, both systems last well and often see 100,000 miles. Some specialists have also noted that the life of these units can be extended if the fluid is refreshed every 60,000 miles.

Bodywork
Both of these cars will rust if not properly cared for, although it will be much harder to spot on the Lotus because it usually begins underneath the body-kit, around the wheelarches and the doorsills. Also ensure that there is no damage to any of the skirts and spoilers, as these are expensive to replace and difficult to get hold of. A new front spoiler alone would cost you around 1500.

Wheels/Tyres
A set of four new tyres for either car can cost as much as 750, so a check on the tread depth is time well spent and could help you negotiate on the price. The wheels should be the originals; aftermarket alloys devalue these cars.

Interior
The 500E's cabin is typically Mercedes and there will be little to worry about - neglect will be obvious. The Carlton, though not quite as tough, holds together well. Assembled in Germany - and it shows.

Before you reach for your chequebook, check out the parts prices.

"I BOUGHT ONE"
Guy Harmon - "I have only owned this car for a month, but it is one I have wanted since I read the old articles in Car magazine when Rowan Atkinson used to write about the 500E that he owned. I tend to buy and sell-on every six to eight months, purely because I'm a real car nut and just want to try different cars, although I expect I'll be hanging on to this one for a little while longer.

"It is quite a first for me, in that it's both the first Mercedes and the first automatic I've ever owned and I have to say it's absolutely brilliant. It's discreet, hugely powerful, superbly well screwed together (probably better than the cars Mercedes are building now) and I have to admit I like the idea of it being the only four-door Porsche. In fact it'd be nice if there was a subtle, small Porsche badge on it somewhere.

"It is my everyday car. I bought it from MCP, who acquired from a German company director who had a chauffer whisk him up and down the autobahns, and it came with a full Mercedes service history. It has a few stone-chips on the nose, but they are just about the only blemish on the whole of the car.

"With the 500E you really do get a lot of car for the money. The only change I might make to it is to fit a new exhaust to release a little more power at the bottom end. Peter Ward from Racing Technologies has already informed me that he can make me a bespoke item that would do the job and it does sound quite tempting...."

If you are interested, more articles (mostly about the 500E/E500) can be found here: http://www.homestead.com/need2speed/ The above article "Bahnstormers" can be found in the turquoise colored bar to the left under "Auto Motor und Sport January 91."

As a sidenote: what irks me is that the car modelers for P.D. & Sony wouldn't have had too much work to create a 500E from the existing 1991 190E. It's not like it would have been a whole new car for them to model. They could have molded in some front fender flares, widened the body, altered the front valence, gotten rid of the tall wing, powered it with the Mercedes 5.0 from the 500SL and viola! 500E.
 
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