Lotus. Future secure?

They've stuck to the principle of adding lightness:dopey:
 
No, I didn't.

I think Bahar was effectively trying to reboot Lotus. Yes, it's a risky strategy, but the idea - ignore what actually happened for the moment - was that the company would invest in racing teams the world over and give the brand a level of exposure that it had never really experienced before. They would have the likes of Kimi Raikkonen driving the E20 and fighting for podiums, and so on. And once the Lotus teams showed themselves to be successful, they would launch their updated range of cars that would then sell because everyone would see Lotus' success and want to buy their cars. Bahar would turn Lotus into a racing team that happened to build road cars.

Of course, that was what was supposed to happen. What actually happen was well and truly off-script - they lost Robert Kubica to injury early on, the R31 rapidly fell down the grid as the season went on, they were embroiled with a crooked Russian banker, the engine they supplied to Indycar teams was down on power, they humiliated Jean Alesi and Simona de Silvestro at Indianapolis, their planned Exige R-GT rally car never eventuated, and the only categories in which they experienced any degree of success were the series like GP2 and GP3 that don't get widespread exposure. It was basically Murphy's Law: anything that could have gone wrong did go wrong.

You miss the whole point of why people dislike Bahar - we all said this from the beginning that his strategy was far too ambitious.

I can't see how you can argue that Bahar's management were on the right track in any sense - the very evidence is all around!
Of course if it had gone right it would have been great - the point is it didn't go right did it? And the why is not bad luck.

Lotus were never in a position to jump to Red Bull/Ferrari levels of marketing spend. And even if they were - it relied so much on the new cars that have still yet to come out.
Sure you don't become a hugely successful company without taking these kind of risks. But equally you don't become a hugely successful company without the product to sell.

I can't believe anyone chooses to still come to Bahar's defence. He very almost ruined a car company and now we are expected to understand it was all down to bad luck?

I find it odd you still refer largely to the F1 side of things. If anything, the whole F1 debacle is the least stupid thing Bahar did. F1 is highly valuable market exposure - particularly for a brand like Lotus. Even with the Fernandes/Team Enstone silliness. People mistake that because the F1 side is the most famous screw up that its the biggest mistake. Its not.

The biggest mistakes Bahar made were:
1. The entire marketing plan. Sponsor/own a team in F1? Fine. Sponsor nearly every motorsport going at once? Completely stupid. Not to mention trying to out-Ferrari Ferrari and all that. It just wasn't going to happen. You don't create brand image like Ferrari overnight by spending a crap load of money. Even Red Bull didn't sponsor everything straight away, their prominence in sports has been a steadily growing presence.
2. The roadcars plan. Too many models looking too similar with completely un-realistic targets. They simply weren't going to design and produce all these models in a matter of months. To spend all that money on marketing and then be waiting years before even the first new model is unveiled is quite clearly not going to work very well. All the marketing did was probably shift a few more Evoras. Lotus were always going to need significant investment to jump up from producing the Elise, Evora and Europa to brand new Esprit, Elan, Elite, Elise, etc.

Lotus need go back to their original plan (and the plan that nearly every manufacturer sticks to generally) - produce the cars THEN market the crap out of them. They don't need motorsport programmes everywhere. The only real motorsport programme they should really focus on is maintaining the Elise Cup and their GT cars. F1 maybe if they still have money for it but certainly Indycar/GP2/GP3/WRC!/Norwich! gain Lotus almost nothing.
They may as well be sponsoring a NASCAR team really if they want coverage in the USA - or an American Football team or something.

Its been mentioned before in this thread and too right as well - look at Ginetta. They are now almost in a similar position Lotus was in. They've got there nearly entirely on very good products but a very limited range of products selling at a low volume. Now imagine if Bahar was put in charge of it and he was saying the same thing about challenging Ferrari etc. Do you not see how crazy it is to take a low volume car company to spending on every motorsport going and trying to produce multiple new models at once?
Sure Ginetta are not quite as big or as successful as Lotus by any stretch. But the point is the same. You don't transform from David to Goliath like that.
And if you do...you better have some serious cash to back it up and a product to sell. Problem for Bahar is he was relying far too much on Proton and Malaysian loans and marketing products that didn't exist yet.
 
Last edited:
I can't see how you can argue that Bahar's management were on the right track in any sense - the very evidence is all around!
I'm not saynig that it ever was right - only that if he had timed it right, things probably would have worked out very differently.
 
I don't think it was down to timing. This car company was never in a position to become the kind of vision Bahar had. It was still reliant on money from Malaysia and a low volume of car sales. There wasn't any significant investment to back up his plan - not to mention Lotus' current capabilities really didn't allow for the production of so many models at once at higher volumes.
 
Yes! Best news I heard in ages! Vw will provide a stable financial backing for the company and maybe then lotus can make the esprit earlier. Here's hoping it happens!
Not great news in my opinion, as it'll mean far too much pressure to use common chassis and avoid competition with other cars in the VAG group. Namely Porsche products.
 
I understand the doubts that might arise from a VW takeover. Lotuses have always had their own character that no other manufacturer has been able to recreate. However, VW does have a good track record in this department. They were the first owners of Lamborghini in many, many years that gave them stable financial backing and corporate resources without interference. Instead, they let them do what they do best, and now we have the Aventador LP700-4 and the Gallardo LP560-4. It's the same with Bentley. I honestly believe that when they were taken over by VW, they became the company that they were before the Rolls-Royce takeover, which destroyed their identity. The Continental has sold astoundingly well, yet is still a true Bentley in spirit. SO, in the end, I think that a VW takeover would be excellent for Lotus, as long as they weren't limited due to competition between them and other brands.
 
VW is good at fostering profitable brands, so this will be good news for Lotus.

And VW will be able to use Lotus's engineering expertise across their brand range... which is good for VW, too. Lotus, unlike Lamborghini or Bentley, can actually contribute something besides profit to the VAG conglomerate.
 
ExigeEvan
Not great news in my opinion, as it'll mean far too much pressure to use common chassis and avoid competition with other cars in the VAG group. Namely Porsche products.

I remember when Lamborghini was bought by Audi. People thought the cars would be too sensible, proton is the one being bought by vw ( who bought Audi) who also own Bugatti. Porsche are a different niche player. I mean aventador v 911? You see my point.
 
As for Lotus been forced to utilise other VAG group chassis for their cars i think is a little unfounded. Their bonded aluminium chassis technology still has a lot of life left in it, and i think it's more likely that a next generation Elise will spawn a new small, light VW sports car or even a sub-Boxster from Porsche rather than an Elise sharing the Audi TT chassis or an Esprit using an R8 or Cayman/Boxster platform.

As has already been mentioned, it's the Lotus Engineering element which will benefit the group the most.
 
A shocker right there.



It really is too bad that they took so long and wasted all that money to come to the obvious conclusion, but I'm brought back to wondering if there is bad blood between Toyota and Lotus now. If not, great. Slap in whatever Toyota engine they were originally designing the car around anyway and be on their way. If so... what are they going to do?
 
Last edited:

👍 Now hopefully its not too late to steer it back on the right track.

Its surprising though that that article doesn't mention the LMP, GP2 and GP3 deals they've got (as well as the many GT agreements they've been passing around). I honestly hope next on the agenda is scrap the whole "we're black and gold now" thing too, its become a symbol of blatant marketing now rather than a hark back to the glory days.
Perhaps their agreements with ART and Kodewa are harder to get rid of.
 
Last edited:
"Lotus facing increasingly uncertain future":
http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/problems-at-lotus-2012-9-25

TopGear.com
Top Gear hates to be the bearer of bad news, but the problems at Group Lotus do not seem to be going away. Following a turbulent summer that has included the dismissal of CEO Dany Bahar by new owners DRB-Hicom, the company is continuing to face pressing legal and supplier problems.

Most worrying for Lotus fans is the apparent cessation of all new model development. Previously it was thought that the Ferrari 458-rivalling Esprit, complete with its all-new Lotus-developed 4.8-litre V8 engine, had been green-lit, but now Top Gear has learned that all future projects have either been significantly delayed or cancelled altogether.

At the same time, production was recently halted for a fortnight, amid continuing rumours that suppliers are having problems being paid on time: some suppliers are threatening legal action over non-payment.

Top Gear has learned that Lotus has amassed millions of pounds of supplier debt which is now more than 90 days overdue. This leaves the firm open to winding up actions from its creditors. Lotus is also trying to defer other payments in an attempt to stabilise its cashflow.

As for the current model range, sales volumes remain low. Finished production versions of the new – and utterly brilliant – Exige V6 (pictured above) have yet to reach dealers. This can only be having further catastrophic impact on Lotus’ bottom line.

Although there have been no staff redundancies, Top Gear understands that freelance design and engineering contractors have been released, leaving departments short-staffed. We have also learned of a number of personnel difficulties within the company as the new owners bring in their own managers from Malaysia.

Meanwhile, ex-CEO Bahar, sacked in early June for alleged gross misconduct, is suing Lotus for wrongful dismissal, as are the Heads of HR and Legal, both of whom were dropped from their posts this summer.

On top of this, future marketing activities have been cancelled. The firm won’t be at this week’s Paris Motor Show, and has confirmed it won’t attend next March’s key Geneva motor show either. This would suggest the firm will have no new product to communicate or display – at a time when it would ordinarily be seeking to make as big an impact as possible.

Top Gear approached Lotus to comment on the current situation and was told: “Our plans include the strengthening of our dealer network, increasing product visibility and brand awareness and ensuring that we position the cars and the brand correctly. We will only announce new products when they are ready, that there is a robust business case matched to a solid future plan, and that we will not share our plans as we wish to maintain our competitive edge.”

Lotus would not comment on whether development of the Esprit was continuing, or how many cars have been sold this year. When asked if suppliers were being paid on time, we were told, “Lotus’ supply chain is very important, but so is the performance of the suppliers. The company is heavily focussed on further strengthening of productivity, efficiency and quality activities covering engineering, production and suppliers. These continuous improvements are necessary to meet Lotus’ new internal standards. We are addressing both our supply chain and our cash flow management and that suppliers are delivering what we need. There has been no interruption and with the strong support from our parent company, suppliers are confident to deal with Lotus.”

DRB-Hicom, the Malaysian firm that bought the previous Lotus owners, Proton, earlier this year, has yet to publicly announce a new business plan for the Norfolk firm, although Lotus told us that, “We expect to communicate more of our plans in the near future.”

It is clear that Lotus remains a troubled company, and this makes Top Gear very sad. We love Lotus and believed – provided investment was forthcoming – that it had a bright future under the stewardship of Bahar and his management team. But with unsettled staff, delayed cars and mounting debt, we now fear for its future.

This is a great shame as the two latest cars we’ve driven, the Exige S and Evora GTE are proof positive that Hethel can build awe-inspiring driver’s cars. There’s certainly no denying the abilities of the talented workforce at Hethel, nor the firm’s long history of innovation and engineering. Fingers crossed there’s a plan forthcoming to back up the potential…

I still can't believe we're in this situation after 4 years.
 
Such is the price of hubris...

It's sad, but Lotus is one of the few remaining small players in a very small market. Without a major manufacturer backing them, they really can't go on.

Lotus to Hyundai, hopefully?
 
Back