Making Gt7 more realistic

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Bad Cat

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There should be an option where only wheel drivers can enter certain races because there is a difference between controller and wheel characteristics very rarely if ever mentioned. It is correct that wheel and controller times can be very similar but that is by design not implemented to give one a realistic driving experience but to allow those with controllers to be competitive. I have raced for over 30 years with a controller before getting a wheel and I can tell you the reaction time on a controller is much faster than a wheel when turning into a corner and not only that but a controller allows one to make slight mistakes that can be corrected quickly where as with a wheel you better be consistent on every turn just like driving a real car. Because of the precise nature of a small joystick being touchy and sensitive you will also see those using a controller at times driving erratically trying to maintain a straight line and in a real world situation this behavior would not only slow a car down but increase the distance that the car travels making their times slower than someone driving in a straight line but interestingly enough this does not happen. It's frustrating to see a car maintaining their distance from you while driving from side to side like a drunk driver as you drive a straight line with the same car (BOP) and not able overtake them. This design feature of course evens the playing field between controller and wheel but gives one who has invested in a wheel an unrealistic view of what should be realistic and is disturbing to see happen for anyone looking for true visual realism. For those of us who take their driving seriously and wish to race with others who feel the same there is a very easy solution and it behooves me to understand why it hasn't been done. A mode of play could easily be included in the game to give one the option to drive against others that only want complete realism allowing only for a wheel to be used and also making damage to the cars as real as possible sending you to the pits for repairs or in the case of major repairs taken off the track completely. Real damage also helps to prevent others smashing into you even if they want to and I can't tell you how many times I've said to myself after being smashed into "They would not drive like that in a million dollar race car". That being said Gt7 is awesome just the way it is and probably the best and most enjoyable simulated racing experience you can have.

Bad Cat Racing
 
No, why separate controller and wheels in a video game. So wheel users are not that many out of whole GT7 playerbase, we don't need this separation. It will promote elitism that is already problem in sim racing community. And it goes against Kazunori Yamauchi philosophy of everyone can play, age 7 to 77, past present future and making new generation of racers. Gran Turismo is simcade meant for mass audience, last thing it need is to tell controller players to go pound sand we wheel users are saving realism in this game.
It's just a game I don't care how controller players ruin realism for wheel users when this realism is fantasy.

Bad Cat
This design feature of course evens the playing field between controller and wheel but gives one who has invested in a wheel an unrealistic view of what should be realistic and is disturbing to see happen for anyone looking for true visual realism.
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Well I have driven in league with controller player and wheel player and not one wheel player told me this is disturbing we should get rid of the controller player and his steering method.
 
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I want so much realism that every single dent, not to mention major damage, needs to be repaired at a cost to the player. If you slam your car hard into a wall, it's totalled....that's it, can't use it anymore, no refund. If you crash too hard, you die and the game won't load anymore. Fluids, fuel, and tires (especially tires!) should also be at a cost to the player.
 
MikeUD06
I want so much realism that every single dent, not to mention major damage, needs to be repaired at a cost to the player. If you slam your car hard into a wall, it's totalled....that's it, can't use it anymore, no refund. If you crash too hard, you die and the game won't load anymore. Fluids, fuel, and tires (especially tires!) should also be at a cost to the player.
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What exactly does "totalled" mean? Is it the same as a car being written off? (When the cost to repair is greater than what the value of the car would be if the repairs were done).
 
I find it interesting that so many are against my idea. No way did I talk about eliminating controllers. I myself still use a controller at times when driving. How did this get out of hand? I just asked for a choice and somehow became an elitist. I see that some people just like to argue.
 
To split controllers and wheel users would result in smaller grids. No one wants that.

MikeUD06
I want so much realism that every single dent, not to mention major damage, needs to be repaired at a cost to the player. If you slam your car hard into a wall, it's totalled....that's it, can't use it anymore, no refund. If you crash too hard, you die and the game won't load anymore. Fluids, fuel, and tires (especially tires!) should also be at a cost to the player.
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The races would be so clean.
 
Bad Cat
I see that some people just like to argue.
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Do you honestly believe opposition to your idea - which several people have given very good reasons for being against - is based solely on the fact that "some people just like to argue"?

Read the replies. You're talking about segregating the playerbase by control method, creating smaller and smaller fields and less opportunity for racing. Nobody wants to log in and find they can only race against the one other guy online in their region on their console (PS4 and PS5 playerbases are already segregated in Daily Races, for good technical reasons) with a steering wheel.

You also only focus on the positives of being a controller player - which is more rapid application of lock (ignoring the steering damping applied) - but don't address the negatives of being a controller player; controller players have less precision available, it's harder to drive consistently to the same pace and lines, throttle and brake application ranges are smaller, and tyre management is a lot harder.

Also, is a wheel as good as any other wheel? Or would you look to segregate the poorer belt/gear/hybrid drive wheels from the direct drive ones too - on the same basis?
Bad Cat
Your right! I was being lazy.
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Cool. Don't do that.

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I am a bit curious about the pit repairs. It seems like PD had planned pit repairs at some point based off the section at the top of the screen when pitting, but I don't think it actually works anywhere. I wonder if they intended to make vehicle damage permanent until pitting but then scrapped the idea for some reason.
 
Darla Starch
Junkman55, is that you? :sly:
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“It’s not a game, it’s a simulator. You must play it with a wheel to be sim racing.”

Come to think of it, maybe he was on to something, with Kaz saying he doesn’t see GT as a game…

That would explain some of the design decisions, lol.
 
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@Bad Cat

Holy, never read something wors on 1 spot.
Wheel user have all the advantage. Steering speed is much higer then on controller, precision is much higer then on controller.
And now please tell me what camera option during race you are using so i have a bit more to laugh…
 
Julius Tuscan
What exactly does "totalled" mean? Is it the same as a car being written off? (When the cost to repair is greater than what the value of the car would be if the repairs were done).
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Dont you have a similar word to "Totalschaden" for when any object in question is damaged to a point of no repair?
 
KAlex122
Every SimRacingGame, no matter how sophisticated, is a videogame. Even if some elitists say otherwise. ;-)
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Definitely, I was just joking around and being sarcastic. Junkman did say something like that, though, the debate raged for a few pages. I think they either got banned or left the site.

I think the controller and wheel are very well balanced. I’ve only used a controller, but lap times are close, no major advantage to either, or at least not something that you can’t get closer to on either peripheral.

Where the wheel has finer control, the controller lets you go to full lock quicker, so it balances out.
 
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RacinLei
@Bad Cat

Holy, never read something wors on 1 spot.
Wheel user have all the advantage. Steering speed is much higer then on controller, precision is much higer then on controller.
And now please tell me what camera option during race you are using so i have a bit more to laugh…
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Why do most wheel users resort to a controller for drifting missions if that is the case??

In my opinion the only problem racing against people using controllers is that some tend to do a lot of sliding thru corners which makes it difficult to pass them cleanly because their car is much wider and you are never sure of their path, but that is simply because I choose to race without hitting others. On the other hand if tire wear is enabled and the race is long enough they will be at a huge disadvantage for all of that sliding later in the race.
 
fastone371
Why do most wheel users resort to a controller for drifting missions if that is the case??

In my opinion the only problem racing against people using controllers is that some tend to do a lot of sliding thru corners which makes it difficult to pass them cleanly because their car is much wider and you are never sure of their path, but that is simply because I choose to race without hitting others. On the other hand if tire wear is enabled and the race is long enough they will be at a huge disadvantage for all of that sliding later in the race.
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Yeah you are right in terms of drifting. But thats most likely due to the settings the most wheel racer use. To much sensetifity, maxed out on wheel and ingame cause the tire to snap to fast from left to right, paierd with a lower set rotation cause the most problem in my opinion.
This is the only downside from controller that turns into an advantage for controller due to the lower steeringspeed.

Beside of that, all power to the wheel, like you say, tire wear consitenci etc is way better. And a real big advantage for high downforce cars, with a wheel you are able to throw and force the cars thru corners. With controller you have to point the car and let the car work for you.

But it is possible to run clean, fast and not drifty on controller, it needs more practice and it is doable ✌🏻
 
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Bad Cat
There should be an option where only wheel drivers can enter certain races because there is a difference between controller and wheel characteristics very rarely if ever mentioned. It is correct that wheel and controller times can be very similar but that is by design not implemented to give one a realistic driving experience but to allow those with controllers to be competitive. I have raced for over 30 years with a controller before getting a wheel and I can tell you the reaction time on a controller is much faster than a wheel when turning into a corner and not only that but a controller allows one to make slight mistakes that can be corrected quickly where as with a wheel you better be consistent on every turn just like driving a real car. Because of the precise nature of a small joystick being touchy and sensitive you will also see those using a controller at times driving erratically trying to maintain a straight line and in a real world situation this behavior would not only slow a car down but increase the distance that the car travels making their times slower than someone driving in a straight line but interestingly enough this does not happen. It's frustrating to see a car maintaining their distance from you while driving from side to side like a drunk driver as you drive a straight line with the same car (BOP) and not able overtake them. This design feature of course evens the playing field between controller and wheel but gives one who has invested in a wheel an unrealistic view of what should be realistic and is disturbing to see happen for anyone looking for true visual realism. For those of us who take their driving seriously and wish to race with others who feel the same there is a very easy solution and it behooves me to understand why it hasn't been done. A mode of play could easily be included in the game to give one the option to drive against others that only want complete realism allowing only for a wheel to be used and also making damage to the cars as real as possible sending you to the pits for repairs or in the case of major repairs taken off the track completely. Real damage also helps to prevent others smashing into you even if they want to and I can't tell you how many times I've said to myself after being smashed into "They would not drive like that in a million dollar race car". That being said Gt7 is awesome just the way it is and probably the best and most enjoyable simulated racing experience you can have.

Bad Cat Racing
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I've waited and waited for a coherent additiom to this. But in light of our annual (fortunately only that often) GT isn't realistic enough for me thread I propose solutions to you that already exist.

1) grab a PC and get a full sim. Plenty are out there, whether ACC, AM2, rFactor 2, iRacing. There are other games out there offering what you claim to be wanting. Try one. A friend on here managed to get a full running iRacing setup on a laptop that was only a few hundred dollars.

2) start your own lobbies. Set damage on strong, track limits on strong and specify frinds only and then pick your wheel using competitors. It seems there's enough of the "I only want to race wheel drivers because of "insert reason here" people playing this game that you could have a regular group of you to enjoy the game all by yourselves.

3) Accept that things aren't going to be equal and simply get on with driving. You claim it isn't realistic watching controller drivers pulling away while weaving. I claim it's not realistic I have to drive with a tire handicap due to the imprecise nature of the controller and also from having PD artificially limit my steering lock for a lot of cars and tracks. It's as if I'm starting some of these races amd combos with a broken car compared to wheel users. I deal with it and race like hell to give them a good race.

No one is going to start officially splitting the player base by hardware input. The only reasom they did it in dailies is due to the cross gen problems making netcode issues much larger than acceptable.

However you move on I hope you find the game that gives you the driving you want.
 
I wonder how many pages this year’s “split the wheel users and controller users” thread will go? I think last year’s went about 10 pages, no?
 
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