Maserati GranTurismo S ’08 braking intensity

[TexRex]

When driving the otherwise default car on CM tires with ABS disabled, it seems terribly easy to lock up. Even with the brake pressure decreased, it locks up quick. I've taken the standard brakes down to 3/3 and have subdued this tendency to a more manageable level but most of the braking power is gone at this point. Anyone else have this problem?

I'll note that I use these tires (and absense of ABS) on a great number of other cars as well--including the Ferrari 599, California and F430, Jaguar XKR Coupe and XKR-S, Aston Martin DB9 and V12 Vantage, BMW M5, Lexus IS-F and many other cars in a similar vein--with no issue whatsoever.

Edit: CKR changed to XKR.

 

[TorqueWrench]

When driving the otherwise default car on CM tires with ABS disabled, it seems terribly easy to lock up. Even with the brake pressure decreased, it locks up quick. I've taken the standard brakes down to 3/3 and have subdued this tendency to a more manageable level but most of the braking power is gone at this point. Anyone else have this problem?

I'll note that I use these tires (and absense of ABS) on a great number of other cars as well--including the Ferrari 599, California and F430, Jaguar CKR Coupe and XKR-S, Aston Martin DB9 and V12 Vantage, BMW M5, Lexus IS-F and many other cars in a similar vein--with no issue whatsoever.

Offset the brake balance

 

[TexRex]

Offset the brake balance

Could potentially make the lock occurrence more manageable, but speaks nought to the reason for it.

 

[TorqueWrench]

Could potentially make the lock occurrence more manageable, but speaks nought to the reason for it.

The reason is probably using CM tires on a car that comes with Sports Hard.

Well that's partially the reason. CM tires are junk, but 5/5 brakes ABS off on CM is still manageable as long as your not mashing your pedal, as far as CM tires go.

So its on pedal control and too low a grade tire for your comfort zone. Try CS, it should be easier on the brake pedal and your tire limits will be moved up to higher speeds. OR just drive the stock car on the tires it came with...

 

[TexRex]

So no input regarding the excessive brake force available with standard brakes set to their default values, only to say that the tires I'm using are wrong despite the fact that I pointed out having driven other, more substantial cars on the exact same compound due to their more-than-adequate lateral grip despite sweeping arbitrary alignment values.
I'll just reserve future replies to comments on the actual topic made by people who have driven real cars on real tires--even though that experience has nothing to do with the issue that I have. Good job missing the point completely.

 

[TorqueWrench]

So no input regarding the excessive brake force available with standard brakes set to their default values, only to say that the tires I'm using are wrong despite the fact that I pointed out having driven other, more substantial cars on the exact same compound due to their more-than-adequate lateral grip despite sweeping arbitrary alignment values.
I'll just reserve future replies to comments on the actual topic made by people who have driven real cars on real tires--even though that experience has nothing to do with the issue that I have. Good job missing the point completely.

No my input IS on topic and its that there IS NO excessive braking force with standard brakes on this car. The cars brakes are fine and manageable on CM tires. There is the odd car that has overly grabby brakes, this car IS NOT one of them. I took out a brand new box stock edition threw on CM tires turned off ABS & TCS and with 5/5 I had no trouble with the brakes. Gets even better when you set the balance correctly. The tires IMO are like putting on some Canadian Tire Brand All Season tires, but whatever floats your boat, if you like your limits low, easy to predict and recover from passing, then Comfort tires are for you.

I'll have you know I've over 10 years experience Racing Real Cars that's besides the point.

I see your point, but I disagree, the car is not the problem

 

[Jbaffoh]

Are the default camber settings similar to the settings in the other cars you mentioned? Some cars have insane settings. I sense you want to use stock settings, but zero camber is your best bet for straight line braking.

Also, the brake balance comment above might have more merit than your response seems to appreciate. Praiano has a good tutorial for finding optimal brake balance post 1.04. If you can balance the brakes so front and rear light up simultaneously, you'll at least maximize straight line stopping power (assuming no wild weight transfers).

But, I confess that I haven't driven that list of cars in stock configuration and without ABS

 

[Wide Boy]

If the stock suspension setting is not good this can cause the car to brake poorly, this car is pretty heavy so the effect will be more noticeable.

 

[TexRex]

Are the default camber settings similar to the settings in the other cars you mentioned? Some cars have insane settings. I sense you want to use stock settings, but zero camber is your best bet for straight line braking.

Also, the brake balance comment above might have more merit than your response seems to appreciate. Praiano has a good tutorial for finding optimal brake balance post 1.04. If you can balance the brakes so front and rear light up simultaneously, you'll at least maximize straight line stopping power (assuming no wild weight transfers).

But, I confess that I haven't driven that list of cars in stock configuration and without ABS

The one markedly different car listed is the 599, as it has an ever-so-slight 0.3 more front camber. This one stands out, and I've even done some rolls monitoring my brake application, the fronts start making noise at about 25% input from 100mph and start putting down rubber at 35% from 100mph (separate tests). The next closest listed is the XKR Coupe '10, and it doesn't start to chirp the fronts until nearly half input. M5 is a champ, no marks until awful close to 85%.

I thought it was my mind playing tricks on me, as the Maserati is the slowest car in that pack and perhaps I expected to push it farther into approach before applying, but nope.

As for balance, I feel no wrong straying from the pressure when adjusting the brakes, but to me, "stock" means "stock" and I keep the proportions the same. (Er, default as the case may be. No way these alignments are stock.)

If the stock suspension setting is not good this can cause the car to brake poorly, this car is pretty heavy so the effect will be more noticeable.

Absolutely. It's pretty squishy and the rear weight bias seems to cause it to dive even more. It's not a remarkable car by any means and I don't feel I'm missing out by removing it from my rotation, it all just strikes me as odd.

Oh and regarding comments on the difficulty of tire compound and wanting to stay safe and predictable by having less...BS. Ran the aforementioned 599 in a 600pp CS no driving aid tuning prohibited lobby last night and matched all but a particularly fast MP4-12C while on CM rather than CS. These cars aren't exotics. I do run my own MP4 on CS.

 

[Jubby]

But... the Maserati GranTurismo S has ABS in real life. You want to drive it stock but change the stock settings?

 

[TorqueWrench]

But... the Maserati GranTurismo S has ABS in real life. You want to drive it stock but change the stock settings?

ABS in Real Life and ABS in Gran Turismo are not the same thing. However taking a real car off the street and onto a Track Disable driving aids. Can't disable them with a button? Pull a fuse or connector, most cars hit a forum will have they usually have ways to kill assist for when at the track

 

[GolimLongshanks]

Are the default camber settings similar to the settings in the other cars you mentioned? Some cars have insane settings. I sense you want to use stock settings, but zero camber is your best bet for straight line braking.

Also, the brake balance comment above might have more merit than your response seems to appreciate. Praiano has a good tutorial for finding optimal brake balance post 1.04. If you can balance the brakes so front and rear light up simultaneously, you'll at least maximize straight line stopping power (assuming no wild weight transfers).

But, I confess that I haven't driven that list of cars in stock configuration and without ABS

I've tried searching for that brake balance tutorial without success. Any chance you remember where it is?

TIA

 

[NCRthree]

When driving the otherwise default car on CM tires with ABS disabled, it seems terribly easy to lock up. Even with the brake pressure decreased, it locks up quick. I've taken the standard brakes down to 3/3 and have subdued this tendency to a more manageable level but most of the braking power is gone at this point. Anyone else have this problem?

I'll note that I use these tires (and absense of ABS) on a great number of other cars as well--including the Ferrari 599, California and F430, Jaguar XKR Coupe and XKR-S, Aston Martin DB9 and V12 Vantage, BMW M5, Lexus IS-F and many other cars in a similar vein--with no issue whatsoever.

Edit: CKR changed to XKR.

You're right. With CM tires the Masers brakes are way too sensitive to lockup. Had it at 3/1 in order to have some pedal. I'll have to try it on CS's.

I've noticed some cars in both GT5 and 6 have this issue. Most notably a couple of the Vision cars react very poorly to ABS 0.

And no CM tires are not junk just probably a mid range HP Summer tire. There's been plenty of discussion on GTP about Comfort tires from experienced drivers on GT's tires vs real life tires.

 

[David Bailey]

What about running the brake balance on 0 f/r. ?

 

[TexRex]

You're right. With CM tires the Masers brakes are way too sensitive to lockup. Had it at 3/1 in order to have some pedal. I'll have to try it on CS's.

I've noticed some cars in both GT5 and 6 have this issue. Most notably a couple of the Vision cars react very poorly to ABS 0.

And no CM tires are not junk just probably a mid range HP Summer tire. There's been plenty of discussion on GTP about Comfort tires from experienced drivers on GT's tires vs real life tires.

Thank goodness I'm not going insane. As I said I didn't feel I was missing out in not being able to drive the car competitively, as it's not all that competitive, but it didn't seem right regardless. CS offers a little more forgiveness thanks to its increased linear grip and ability to sustain roll-out under heavy braking, but as a moderate GT ('Grand Touring,' for those unfamiliar with the term outside of 'Gran Turismo') car, I don't feel it warrants the increased lateral grip. The only GT car in the game I feel comfortable providing a CS as 'stock' is the SLS, since it's more substantial than others, but at the same time I'm not afraid to run it with CM--or even CH for a little more fun. Oh and I believe I've been a part of the aforementioned discussions on the merit of Comfort grades.

What about running the brake balance on 0 f/r. ?

The lock got more manageable at 3/3 and I was comfortable running that--eh, comfortable isn't the word but it's the best I can come up with at this time--but braking power was too far diminished to drive it the way I like. (Note: I'm not a stranger to increasing brake pressure over default, even when it isn't absolutely necessary...*cough* *cough* ZR1 *cough* *cough*)

 

[GTD4RKSiD3R]

Brakes don't stop the car, the tires do. This fact is being overlooked here.


Your brakes are only as good as the tires. Your basically proving those tires are a poor choice.


If the brakes lock up to easy with ABS off, your brakes are fine, but you need to look at tire selection. Any Brake kit manufacturer will tell you the same thing in real life. Great brakes with low grip tires will extend braking distances, make lock up more freequint and can cause sudden loss of control. Its important to insure your tires up to the ability of the brakes.

 

[TexRex]

Brakes don't stop the car, the tires do. This fact is being overlooked here.


Your brakes are only as good as the tires. Your basically proving those tires are a poor choice.


If the brakes lock up to easy with ABS off, your brakes are fine, but you need to look at tire selection. Any Brake kit manufacturer will tell you the same thing in real life. Great brakes with low grip tires will extend braking distances, make lock up more freequint and can cause sudden loss of control. Its important to insure your tires up to the ability of the brakes.

So because the car lacks the linear grip to prevent lock, it deserves tires that offer lateral grip exceeding that of the tires it comes with? Yeah...
No, it seems much more likely that there's something wrong with the coding or specification--like many other cars.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

When driving the otherwise default car on CM tires with ABS disabled, it seems terribly easy to lock up. Even with the brake pressure decreased, it locks up quick. I've taken the standard brakes down to 3/3 and have subdued this tendency to a more manageable level but most of the braking power is gone at this point. Anyone else have this problem?

I'll note that I use these tires (and absense of ABS) on a great number of other cars as well--including the Ferrari 599, California and F430, Jaguar XKR Coupe and XKR-S, Aston Martin DB9 and V12 Vantage, BMW M5, Lexus IS-F and many other cars in a similar vein--with no issue whatsoever.

Edit: CKR changed to XKR.

Mmm, never have issue with ABS 0 ( excessive lock up ), maybe try modulating the brakes. I have no issue modulating brake force even at around 20% on low speed, so maybe that's why I never had this With Racing brakes, usually 3/3 or 2/2 is good on comfort soft, even on my 599XX replica or SLR 722 GT.

 

[TexRex]

Mmm, never have issue with ABS 0 ( excessive lock up ), maybe try modulating the brakes. I have no issue modulating brake force even at around 20% on low speed, so maybe that's why I never had this With Racing brakes, usually 3/3 or 2/2 is good on comfort soft, even on my 599XX replica or SLR 722 GT.

Even considering the car in question? It's not an issue with comparable cars on the same tires, just this one. I never mash the brake either, save for panic braking when I'm drinking, because it never offers more stopping power than, say, 85%.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Even considering the car in question? It's not an issue with comparable cars on the same tires, just this one. I never mash the brake either, save for panic braking when I'm drinking, because it never offers more stopping power than, say, 85%.

I drove the Maserati a lot when testing GT4 replica, and before that MC Stradale and Trofeo It has over 1000km on the odo.

This is for comfort tire ( CM and CS ) : I usually run 3/4 BB on the Maserati, either racing brakes or standard brakes. With racing brakes, 3/4 is already quite strong, usually 50% brake ( red bar ) is more than enough on medium to lower speed ( below 200kmh ). Anything below 100kmh/62mph will need to modulate at 20% to 40%. While with standard brakes, 3/4 offers more range of play, at above 200kmh, I can apply full force 100% for a split second, then gradually modulate at 70% to 80% and about 40% to 50% on lower speed. Sometimes one of the front wheels will turn red then lock up when I pushed the car too far / brake too deep. This is with a replica, and it has 3.0 front camber, which reduces tire braking limit ( longer stopping distance ). I recently tested GT4 Maserati at Red Bull Ring on CM tire ( racing brakes and standard brakes ), still drivable at 3/4 BB on both, just need extra care on lower speed. Some cars have very bitey brakes ( even on standard brakes )

 

[TexRex]

Okay yeah 3/4 is a little more in line with how I've found success, so my belief that the default setting is a little on the strong side is still applicable.

 

[sayba2th]

Try the tune that is in the Rixox replica tuning garage. His tunes are based on real cars and he goes to extreme lenghts to get the detail correct. The tune he has https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...x8-focusst14-vitz.294814/page-14#post-9500565 is just sensational. He may not have the fastest tunes but if you want authenticity then look no further than his garage.

 

[sayba2th]

I drove the Maserati a lot when testing GT4 replica, and before that MC Stradale and Trofeo It has over 1000km on the odo.

This is for comfort tire ( CM and CS ) : I usually run 3/4 BB on the Maserati, either racing brakes or standard brakes. With racing brakes, 3/4 is already quite strong, usually 50% brake ( red bar ) is more than enough on medium to lower speed ( below 200kmh ). Anything below 100kmh/62mph will need to modulate at 20% to 40%. While with standard brakes, 3/4 offers more range of play, at above 200kmh, I can apply full force 100% for a split second, then gradually modulate at 70% to 80% and about 40% to 50% on lower speed. Sometimes one of the front wheels will turn red then lock up when I pushed the car too far / brake too deep. This is with a replica, and it has 3.0 front camber, which reduces tire braking limit ( longer stopping distance ). I recently tested GT4 Maserati at Red Bull Ring on CM tire ( racing brakes and standard brakes ), still drivable at 3/4 BB on both, just need extra care on lower speed. Some cars have very bitey brakes ( even on standard brakes )

lolololol, just finished singing your praises here R, I even sent T-Rex the link to your tune.

T-Rex this guy knows his stuff one of the best and a favorite of mine on GTP.