McLaren not so fast?

[thirteendog]

McLaren have admitted that their 2009 car is unlikely to challenge for victory at the season-opening Australian Grand Prix, following its lacklustre testing times in Spain this week. However, the team insists the MP4-24’s problems are fixable.

World champion Lewis Hamilton and team mate Lewis Hamilton languished in the lower half of the timesheets throughout the four days at the Circuit de Catalunya, prompting the team to concede that they may not be competitive in time for Melbourne.

“This week the car has run in Barcelona with an updated aero package, as we had always planned it would, and a performance shortfall has been identified that we are now working hard to resolve," said team principal Martin Whitmarsh.

McLaren are now hoping that an additional test next week - a luxury most of their rivals don’t have - will allow them to pinpoint the downforce issues before the team departs their Woking base for the Albert Park race at the end of this month.

“We aim to continue to develop the car, and the result should be measurable on the stopwatch,” added Whitmarsh. “Will MP4-24 be as quick as we want it to be by March 29? Perhaps not. Will it be quicker than it has been this week at the Barcelona test? Yes. Will it improve as we develop its aero and thereby address its problems in the coming weeks and months? Most certainly."

Mercedes-Benz Motorsport’s Norbert Haug, who also saw his company’s engines top the Barcelona timesheet courtesy of Ross Brawn’s new team, echoed Whitmarsh’s comments, insisting McLaren are quite capable of coming from behind to challenge for the title.

"We have fixed problems together in the past and we will succeed in doing it again,” he said. “Expect us to fight back even if it takes some time. If we were not be capable of building competitive Formula One cars, we would not have won one third of all Grands Prix during the past four years."

McLaren’s final pre-season test runs from March 15-18 at Jerez in Spain.

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2009/3/9016.html

Sandbagging? God, I hope so

 

[Ardius]

I don't think even McLaren would go to the trouble of having Lewis crash at least twice just to make them appear they are sandbagging.

They are in trouble, even ultra-McLaren fanboy James Allen has said the drivers look like they are have trouble driving the car.

They still have a week to fix their problems, but after that they're kind of screwed because of the in-season testing ban. Which makes things interesting because we will see what Hamilton can do with a car that isn't so great, just like the champions before him.

Thank god we have a season that finally looks like it will have a constructors champion that isn't Ferrari, McLaren or Renault.

 

[thirteendog]

Well MS had season's were he didn't have the best car. We will have to wait and see. I'm excited, I agree with you, I don't think they are sandbagging but I also don't think they are as bad as they say they are. If I remember right LH was still 11th fastest last session
Bravo to Honda... err I mean brawn. It's amazing what happens when you put a good engine in a car.

 

[Alex.]

Sandbagging? God, I hope so

Did you not read your own quote?

 

[Peter]

Looks like Ferrari has this season all wrapped up before it starts. McLaren is hopeless now. It would take all of Hamilton's skill to win this year.

 

[NapoleonMikey]

not surprised but its pretty ironic i remember someone saying at the end of the '08 season something about McLaren forgetting how to build a car and it not being possible. well it looks like they happened to do just that.

World champion Lewis Hamilton and team mate Lewis Hamilton languished in the lower half of the timesheets

and am i the only one bothered by the fact that McLaren seems to have cloned there driver? now we have 2 lewis hamiltons to deal with? 1 was bad enough.

 

[Alex.]

Ah, so thats where James Allen is employed nowadays

 

[Ardius]

Bravo to Honda... err I mean brawn. It's amazing what happens when you put a good engine in a car.

I think the key here is a good engine with a good gearbox (as well as obviously brilliant aero), apparently that was one of the parts of the deal that was hard to negogiate for Brawn, but in the end Honda let him have the gearbox, now we see why.

They are worse than they say they are, at least I think so anyway. Testing all sorts of aero pieces, using lots of that green paint, Hamilton repeatedly crashing. This is not spelling a happy season for McLaren and it seems they are in a bit of a panic trying to fix the problem.

and am i the only one bothered by the fact that McLaren seems to have cloned there driver? now we have 2 lewis hamiltons to deal with? 1 was bad enough.

Back in the day, we were used to this happening....it was a thing called "Murray Walker".

Looks like Ferrari has this season all wrapped up before it starts. McLaren is hopeless now. It would take all of Hamilton's skill to win this year.

Ferrari? You mean the team with a lot of KERS reliability issues?
I'd say this will be a season contested between BMW Sauber, Brawn and either Ferrari, Renault, Williams or Red Bull.

 

[Peter]

Bad? Hamilton is one of the reasons i watch F1. He makes up about 10% of why i watch F1.

 

[Alex.]

Woah, if Hamilton wasn't in it, it'd only be 90% as interesting!

Everyone needs a driver they want to retire every race anyway

 

[Bram Turismo]

Ferrari? You mean the team with a lot of KERS reliability issues?
I'd say this will be a season contested between BMW Sauber, Brawn and either Ferrari, Renault, Williams or Red Bull.

You have too much Renault and Williams, and too little Toyota in there buddy.

 

[Tired Tyres]

You have too much Renault and Williams, and too little Toyota in there buddy.

That's what I was just about to post!

I think a variety of different teams will come good and drop back as the season progresses.

Develop a new part, test it in Friday practice. If it works you have a good race. If it doesn't you go backwards.

 

[NapoleonMikey]

well i think this year will be just as interesting as the last 2 if not even more interesting. you already got McLaren out of the picture for the first half of the season. you got all the smaller teams showing vast improvement over the break and ferrari has problems with kers. think we might have some good competition this year outside of a Ferrari/McLaren battle. brawn looks to be a serious competitor and i think BMW will stand out this year seeing as they've been developing this years car since mid season last year. guess we will find out in 2 weeks.

 

[Ardius]

You have too much Renault and Williams, and too little Toyota in there buddy.

Woops, how could I forget! I'm secretly a Toyota fan as well, secret no more, lol.
I'd like to see Trulli finally get some more wins and Glock impressed me last year and I'm a keen follower of him too. (not to mention making an amusing horror trailer as your launch for your new car is always going to win me over, if I had needed winning over)

Yeah, I'd put Toyota ahead of Renault, maybe not Williams, I'm sort of holding some hope Williams have managed to gain some pace this year.

That's what I was just about to post!

I think a variety of different teams will come good and drop back as the season progresses.

Develop a new part, test it in Friday practice. If it works you have a good race. If it doesn't you go backwards.

It won't be anything like previous years though, McLaren certainly won't be doing a Renault 2008. Trust me, the lack of in season testing is going really hurt teams a lot more that didn't get it right at the start of the season.

 

[C-ZETA]

I don't think even McLaren would go to the trouble of having Lewis crash at least twice just to make them appear they are sandbagging.

+1. Having a team like McLaren sandbagging is wrong.

 

[darkfinal]

Everyone needs a driver they want to retire every race anyway

Get out of my head!

 

[Bram Turismo]

Woops, how could I forget! I'm secretly a Toyota fan as well, secret no more, lol.
I'd like to see Trulli finally get some more wins and Glock impressed me last year and I'm a keen follower of him too. (not to mention making an amusing horror trailer as your launch for your new car is always going to win me over, if I had needed winning over)

Toyota have been very, very consistent in testing, so I hope they're up there with Ferrari, probably behind BMW Sauber and Brawn GP, but there's always hope and luck. I've still seen far too little to already call the Brawn car a winner already.

On that, I'm going to go ahead and say Glock will out-score Trulli this season. Last season Glock was the faster man from half-season and out, and since Glock is used to slicks from the GP2 series (or whatever he was in...) I think he has this advantage over Trulli as, just like all the other older drivers, it's been a while for them since they've been driving with slicks.

But I won't hide the fact that for some reason I really want a battle between Barrichello, Kubica and Glock in the front

 

[zed300]

On that, I'm going to go ahead and say Glock will out-score Trulli this season. Last season Glock was the faster man from half-season and out, and since Glock is used to slicks from the GP2 series (or whatever he was in...) I think he has this advantage over Trulli as, just like all the other older drivers, it's been a while for them since they've been driving with slicks.

If indeed this does happen, I doubt very doubt the fact that they are using slicks, will have anything to do with it.

A world champion starting a new season in a new car, would surely choose to stamp his authority, as soon as possible..... yer?
McLaren sandbagging.......nooooooooo..... surely not.
McLaren is a very proud brand, the thought of a team sandbagging at this testing session, is not really going to do them any favours. Laps under their belt is a necessity.

 

[peterjford]

But I won't hide the fact that for some reason I really want a battle between Barrichello, Kubica and Glock in the front

That would make an awesome podium. I also would like to see Vettel up there some more this season.

and am i the only one bothered by the fact that McLaren seems to have cloned there driver? now we have 2 lewis hamiltons to deal with? 1 was bad enough.

Yeah, Heidi... Heidfe... That Finnish guy never gets any respect!

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Which makes things interesting because we will see what Hamilton can do with a car that isn't so great, just like the champions before him.

Funny you should say that, because it's something I've said repeatedly over the past two years: Hamilton has always hada highly-competitive car under him. He's always started on or near the front row, and the times when he hasn't have been pretty mediocre. I've been very curious for a while now as to how he'd go in a car that is of the pace.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Looks like Ferrari has this season all wrapped up before it starts. McLaren is hopeless now. It would take all of Hamilton's skill to win this year.

Have you been paying attention to testing at all? It hardly looks like they'll be able to wrap the season up with ease.

 

[SUPER NUMBBER]

I don't think even McLaren would go to the trouble of having Lewis crash at least twice just to make them appear they are sandbagging.

They are in trouble, even ultra-McLaren fanboy James Allen has said the drivers look like they are have trouble driving the car.

Well I don't think McLaren would tell Lewis to crash for show, either. If McLaren are intentionally handicapping the car, and Lewis is trying to keep up with the rest as if they were on the same level, you can see where this is gonna lead.

I just don't see a good explanation for such a huge gap between cars that share the same engine, especially for McLaren to be on the complete opposite end. It's not like formula cars are completely different from years past, either, so the rule changes don't answer those questions satisfactorily. Sounds too fishy...

 

[Metar]

I'll just hmm in the corner.

We've been discussing McLaren's troubles for a long while now - shouldn't it be obvious by now that they're struggling?

Seriously, though, guys: Get over your inner fanboy when you consider a team's pace. No, Toyota isn't at Ferrari's level. No, McLaren isn't sandbagging. Yes, the Brawn is fast. I can go on - but it doesn't appear to sink in. As of now, according to testing, accompanied by interviews and analysis of long- and short-runs, the BrawnGP is on a different level, the BMW and Ferrari appear equal, Toyota around them, probably slightly below, while Renault, Williams and RBR slightly slower but with unknown variables (Renault did long-runs exclusively on the final day, and still ended up 5th, while Williams' short-run gave them an impressive sub-1'20), and below them STR, Fi and McLaren, probably in that order (but subject to change once McLaren fix their now-admitted struggles). As for reliability, we'll see: Every team had it's struggles, but Brawn's limited testing didn't hamper them much, it seems, since they completed 2000km over four days on the same engine - that's more than an engine needs to run during the season. Ferrari, Renault, McLaren, Williams, Force India, Toyota, and RBR/STR all had their share of problems: it's going to be a lottery.

 

[Blake]

I think the key here is a good engine with a good gearbox (as well as obviously brilliant aero), apparently that was one of the parts of the deal that was hard to negogiate for Brawn, but in the end Honda let him have the gearbox, now we see why.

The gearbox has practically no performance benefit. They all shift without cutting power to the engine, and they’re all pretty damn light. The reason Brawn GP kept their own gearbox was so they could keep their own rear suspension mounts, rather than adopt McLaren’s (which obviously has completely different geometry to the Brawn) which would require a pretty significant change to the design philosophy at the back of the car.

 

[Ardius]

The gearbox has practically no performance benefit. They all shift without cutting power to the engine, and they’re all pretty damn light. The reason Brawn GP kept their own gearbox was so they could keep their own rear suspension mounts, rather than adopt McLaren’s (which obviously has completely different geometry to the Brawn) which would require a pretty significant change to the design philosophy at the back of the car.

Thats kind of what I meant....I wasn't completely referring to the performance of the gearbox itself, but its additional benefits.
Clearly, it has made a difference between the McLaren, Force India and Brawn cars, though obviously not the only difference.

 

[SUPER NUMBBER]

I wanna see where the 2 seconds are coming from..and a gearbox by itself doesn't convince me.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I seriously doubt Brawn are going to give up that secret. You can bet it would be something completely legitimate, because there's no way a man like Ross Brawn would risk violating the rules. Sure, we know Ferrari personnel can be bastards - Nigel Stepney is proof of as much - but Brawn is one of the most respected men in the sport; e was a part of Ferrari's "holy trinity" during the Age of Schumacher. And now he's got himself his own team. He's got more to lose than to gain from running an illegal car. For all we know, the changes they had to make to accomodate the Mercedes engine - as they were originally running with Honda powerplants - inadvertently gave them an advantage. I'd say Brawn's speed is a product of clever design more than flaunting the rules.

 

[SagarisGTB]

Clever design and the fact that Honda have been designing this car with the majority of their resources since they realized the 2008 car was a dog. Pretty much a year ago.

I think Toyota is also in a good position, their race simulations and long stints have shown very good lap times, very similar to those of Ferrari and BMW, though slower than Brawn's.

The rumor now is that Mclaren are copying Brawn's car features as fast as they can (why they missed yeasterday's test, the parts werent ready) so they could climb back up quite quickly.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Be a bit embarrssing if Brawn beat them when they're Mercedes' engine customer. Kind of like when Super Aguri were looking to humilate Honda before a lack of testing meant the fell behind in 2007.

If it is indeed true that McLaren copy the BGP-001, I hope every maniacal Hamilton fan out there knows that the McLaren's success was a product of another British team's - and another British driver's - fruits of labour.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Times from Jerez as of 10.13 CET today

1. Barrichello: 1:18.398-18 laps
2. Alonso: 1:19.654-18 laps
3. Rosberg: 1:19.783-15 laps
4. Hamilton: 1:20.080-7 laps

Any copying they might be doing isn't showing up so far.