Media Defender trap people illegally downloading

[Pebb]

Source: Tech Digest

Now here's a strange story. A new site called MiiVii.com seemed like a dream for file-sharing internet users. It offered a bunch of big films free to download, as well as software to speed up the process. Whatever would the movie industry make of it?

Well, er, it seems they built it. At least, Miivii's ownership was traced back to a company called Media Defender, which acts as the investigative arm of the Motion Picture Association of America. In other words, anyone actually using the site to upload or download films could then be hit by a fat lawsuit.

Some might call that lateral thinking, but most would call it entrapment. Either way, Miivii appears to have been taken down now, once its secret was blown across the blogosphere.

 

[Sprite]

owned!!! I feel for the suckers who used this site. I dont beleive in downloading movies or any other thing for that matter unless you are just seeing what its like to purchase later, and in the case of software there are demos for this. serves them rite for being naughty. Hold out your wrists boys n girls.

 

[wfooshee]

Nevertheless, the property owner's dangling it out there and then slapping you for it is not even remotely ethical. Nor legal. It might even be argued that the act of dangling it out there contitues waiving the ownership rights.

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

Nevertheless, the property owner's dangling it out there and then slapping you for it is not even remotely ethical. Nor legal. It might even be argued that the act of dangling it out there continues waiving the ownership rights.

As a point of fact it is perfectly legal, nor is it in any way waiving ownership rights. For example, this is no different than when police use bait cars on the streets specially outfitted with cameras, automatic locking doors and remote engine cut-off control:



While I can understand why some individuals might see this as unethical... just as these car thieves must feel the bait car is unethical, I for one do not.

If it were not for the rampant disregard for copyright laws and illegal downloading we honest consumers wouldn't have to hassle with so much draconian type DRM issues. 👎

Personally, I think this is a great idea, and like bait cars, child porn stings, fake lottery winning stings, etc, I hope they continue to create new sites catching video thieves red handed if it means limiting the amount of piracy without punishing honest consumers because of it. 👍

 

[BobK]

Let me get this straight. They have a website offering these files for downloading, then bust somebody that downloads what they're offering? And you don't see anything unethical about that? Two wrongs make a right?

Regardless of the wrongs of piracy, that is not the way to go about enforcing it.

 

[V1P3R]

Pretty much...

 

[niky]

Interesting... is tempting people with free downloads considered entrapment?

If you're getting a free download, it's possible that some of these free downloads are 100% legitimately free... some music is available for free online. There is a possibility that people caught this way can wrangle out of a court case by saying they didn't know it was illegal to receive free content. (however ethically weak the case might be...)

I often download games from free sites (mostly sucky shareware) to pass the time. If I came upon a site offering high quality games for "free", then get tagged for violating copyright laws because apparently these games weren't... wouldn't that be entrapment?

I agree... it's an interesting way to do it... ...but it would be better if they offered to host illegally ripped movies for downloading, then went after those sharing the files... if they started out by posting movies for download, then they themselves could be hit for illegal distribution.

 

[DustDriver]

Here in Belgium it's actually legal to download stuff,
but it's illegal to host, sell, and give away illegal software.

So they are the ones that doing illegal stuff, not the belgian downloading it


Well, that's what i'm told. It's a loophole somewhere in a law.

 

[Appie]

Here in Belgium it's actually legal to download stuff,
but it's illegal to host, sell, and give away illegal software.

So they are the ones that doing illegal stuff, not the belgian downloading it


Well, that's what i'm told. It's a loophole somewhere in a law.

Its the same here in Holland.

 

[Bram Turismo]

Same here. You want to download and get a key online for Photoshop...fine, but once you stare sharing it or sell it or whatever, wrong...That's what they tell me here, I don't care anyway, I can't even remember when I last downloaded a mediafile besides the official GT HD video

 

[DustDriver]

I download most of the programs i need for school from the internet.
i downloaded all the 'demo' versions from Macromedia's programs from their site, searched for a key and now i enjoy a program i normally couldn't even afford buying.
I didn't pay for my developer programs and windows either, i have a free membership with ma3d (only if you study an ict course)

And downloading programs and stuff from torrents isn't illegal either, because you don't distribute complete software when you share it. Only a part of the program gets transmitted to other users.

 

[Omnis]

SPEECHLESS.















psyche

 

[wfooshee]

I download most of the programs i need for school from the internet.
i downloaded all the 'demo' versions from Macromedia's programs from their site, searched for a key and now i enjoy a program i normally couldn't even afford buying.
I didn't pay for my developer programs and windows either, i have a free membership with ma3d (only if you study an ict course)

And downloading programs and stuff from torrents isn't illegal either, because you don't distribute complete software when you share it. Only a part of the program gets transmitted to other users.

Kind of ironic to me that your avatar refers to the AUP, yet your post is an off-topic demostration of piracy.

 

[DustDriver]

-You will not use these forums to violate any laws nor to discuss illegal -activities.

Like i said, it isn't illegal(well, at least not here)

-You will not use these Forums for the purposes of sharing or distributing viruses, licenses, registration information, software keys, pirated commercial multimedia files (such as ripped DVD's, CD's, etc.), "cracks", or other information designed to do harm to or allow unlawful access to any computer hardware, software, networks, or any other systems.

The only information i gave is that you can use torrents, but torrent files aren't illegal. You can make a video and make a torrent file so that other people can download them via p2p.

The only violation of the AUP is that it's offtopic (but not completely)

 

[McLaren]

Sounds like some of these movie guys should lose the rights to their films if they're just going to use them to catch people.

Even more, I wonder how many people actually have a lawsuit now. Let me guess. 1-3 of the whole thousands that downloaded from the site?

Good job movie guys. You just purposely gave out your movies for free. Genius.

 

[Azuremen]

Thing is, alot of these sites distribute non working versions, meaning you don't actually get the movie, etc. They have been doing this with torrent sites as well.

So then it comes down to... did you actually steal anything or break any law if you downloaded a blank file? And of course there is then the issue of them distributing them.

I utterly hate the MPAA and RIAA... when stuff like this...
http://www.bbspot.com/News/2006/11/home-theater-regulations.html

Can be put up... for follow up, read this. Will make things make more sense.
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20061128/080742.shtml

They are trying to regulate something they CANNOT do anymore. Instead of adapting to the new enviroment, they continue to try to control it, which is impossible now short of the government locking things down directly, which here it will not. Both the RIAA and MPAA are highly unethical in how they pursue people and they supposed damages at 700 dollars a song (despite how it is stipulate they only get 70 cents of profit per song, which is still alot considering the price at 99 cents).

That and the blog communities and such will figure this out fast and rip it apart.

 

[wfooshee]

-You will not use these forums to violate any laws nor to discuss illegal -activities.

Like i said, it isn't illegal(well, at least not here)

-You will not use these Forums for the purposes of sharing or distributing viruses, licenses, registration information, software keys, pirated commercial multimedia files (such as ripped DVD's, CD's, etc.), "cracks", or other information designed to do harm to or allow unlawful access to any computer hardware, software, networks, or any other systems.

The only information i gave is that you can use torrents, but torrent files aren't illegal. You can make a video and make a torrent file so that other people can download them via p2p.

The only violation of the AUP is that it's offtopic (but not completely)

Perhaps an environmental difference, but everything you talked about IS illegal here. I wasn't trying to run you out about it, I was just stating the irony. Sorry if it seemed overboard.

And it's not like I've never burned a CD of music that I "found" somewhere, so I intended no stone-casting.

 

[V1P3R]

Why is this thread still open and some people in here warned?

[image]

SPEECHLESS.

psyche

[image]

 

[Azuremen]

Perhaps an environmental difference, but everything you talked about IS illegal here. I wasn't trying to run you out about it, I was just stating the irony. Sorry if it seemed overboard.

And it's not like I've never burned a CD of music that I "found" somewhere, so I intended no stone-casting.

Actually, unless Florida has completely different laws than Washington, Torrent files are completely legal, as are p2p programs. It is the distribution of files that are copyrighted that is illegal. So he hasn't discussed anything illegal per say in this previous post.

He did allude to illegal activities at one point, but alas, many people here link to Youtube clips of TV shows, Omnis pictures I doubt he owns the copy right on, etc.

So you can be anal about it, but then everyone is violating the AUP.

 

[Sprite]

Kind of ironic to me that your avatar refers to the AUP, yet your post is an off-topic demostration of piracy.

Not really, he has told us that he acted lawfully and within the laws of his own country, this is not breaking AUP nor is offering an opinion on the subject of piracy, now if he had said " I freely download programmes and crack them and this is how you do it, please got to website a and website b for the key" then yes thats against the AUP or so I understand.

-You will not use these forums to violate any laws nor to discuss illegal -activities.

Like i said, it isn't illegal(well, at least not here)

-You will not use these Forums for the purposes of sharing or distributing viruses, licenses, registration information, software keys, pirated commercial multimedia files (such as ripped DVD's, CD's, etc.), "cracks", or other information designed to do harm to or allow unlawful access to any computer hardware, software, networks, or any other systems.

The only information i gave is that you can use torrents, but torrent files aren't illegal. You can make a video and make a torrent file so that other people can download them via p2p.

The only violation of the AUP is that it's offtopic (but not completely)

Thats how I understand it as well.

I download most of the programs i need for school from the internet.
i downloaded all the 'demo' versions from Macromedia's programs from their site, searched for a key and now i enjoy a program i normally couldn't even afford buying.
I didn't pay for my developer programs and windows either, i have a free membership with ma3d (only if you study an ict course)

And downloading programs and stuff from torrents isn't illegal either, because you don't distribute complete software when you share it. Only a part of the program gets transmitted to other users.

I found allot of people at uni did this, and even some of the staff openly encoraged it, Maya, Photosop and audio packages are in the hundreds of pounds to buy and if some students could not afford them (thats allot) they would be up a very ****y creek without the paddles.

Here in Belgium it's actually legal to download stuff,
but it's illegal to host, sell, and give away illegal software.

So they are the ones that doing illegal stuff, not the belgian downloading it


Well, that's what i'm told. It's a loophole somewhere in a law.

Im not sure what the laws are like in the UK, I always understood it to be the same as you, I personally don't agree with ultra piracy sharing movies and so on, but who in the right mind wants to watch a film with crowds walking in front of the screen. I would prefer see it at the cinema for the same price as downloading it or wit for it to come out on DVD/BD and purchase it. While I do think that this way of catching people out is a little on the mean side, It all depends on the person they are catching out, if its your local dvd pirate who sells them down the pub and is a total creep then yeh the should be stopped, but what about the unsuspecting person who is not aware of all the laws and is under the assumption that this is legal, especially if it was a innocent looking site without the porn adds and popups for all manner of things.

 

[Kent]

Interesting... is tempting people with free downloads considered entrapment?

If you're getting a free download, it's possible that some of these free downloads are 100% legitimately free... some music is available for free online. There is a possibility that people caught this way can wrangle out of a court case by saying they didn't know it was illegal to receive free content. (however ethically weak the case might be...)

I often download games from free sites (mostly sucky shareware) to pass the time. If I came upon a site offering high quality games for "free", then get tagged for violating copyright laws because apparently these games weren't... wouldn't that be entrapment?

I agree... it's an interesting way to do it... ...but it would be better if they offered to host illegally ripped movies for downloading, then went after those sharing the files... if they started out by posting movies for download, then they themselves could be hit for illegal distribution.

In red I have highlighted the one issue that makes it un-ethical for the MPAA to do what they did.
Fact is, if you don't own the car in question or have permission to use the car in question, it is always illegal to get in it and drive off.

However, with a movie site that advertises "Free movies" and does not use any sort of "doing this or that is illegal" disclaimer, the movies being downloaded may infact be assumed to be perfectly legal.

There's the problem.
Without specifically saying "downloading this is illegal" you can't provide the "free movies" and not be committing entrapment.

Basically, this is the equivalent of the movie industry using a bait car that has a huge "Free Car" sticker in the window.
If the police were to put a huge sticker that said "Drive this car away for free just by getting into it, starting it, and driving off..." then they too would be entraping the criminal (as the criminal is not knowingly engaging in an illegal act).

That said, I don't feel bait cars are entrapment (because they don't have a "take me" sign in them).

This movie bit on the other hand, I know is entrapment.
Remember that part of entrapment is wrongfully convincing someone that it is acceptable to commit the action in question and inturn convincing a person to do something they would not have done otherwise.

Btw, I'm totally cool with child molestation stings and all the other stuff mentioned.

Oh, and on a last note... The fact that the site was removed the instant things were revealed is a good sign that the industry was not too sure about there own innocence in the situation.