Mercedes 190E DTM car overpowered?

[XPLOSV]

Anyone else find this annoying? Its one of my favourite cars in the game, but its 2.5ltr 4cyl engine is rated at ~390hp @9000rpm in the game.

Not only is it impossible to get that sort of power at that sort of revs from that capacity, but in reality, they were producing around 270hp.

There are a few other cars that have similarly overstated power.
From memory, the below cars also have ~200hp in excess.....
- CLK GTR
- BMW LMR
- Toyota GT1

Just thought I'd put this out there for comments........

I usually drive the 190E with the engine wound back just to preserve some sort of realism.

 

[peter_vod69]

Don't forget this was post Group A, the engineering that was going into them was nearly at the same level as F1. And they were heading towards 11000rpm by the end of their development.

 

[Dennisch]

In 1992 the 190e had 373hp.

Clickie

 

[XPLOSV]

Wow!!! Interesting link Dennisch.

I knew the astronomical levels of development the later model cars had (W202 for instance) but thought this era of DTM was not as huge (i.e. still a fair distance away from F1).

Ok, I'll accept the 390hp rating. That is just rediculous power from 2.5ltrs.

Thanks for the responses guys.

PS Why PD didnt put this car into GT5 I'll never know:
http://www.evo.co.uk/features/features/255382/mercedesbenz_dtm_racing_car_gallery.html
^^ I've read that mercedes were spending similar money here compared to F1.

 

[sumbrownkid]

I think the horsepower figures the teams give out to the public aren't the actual true horsepower figures their engines churn out.

I won't be surprised if the GT-One and BMW churned out 100 HP more than the official stats during their 1999 race.

 

[Tornado]

Anyone else find this annoying? Its one of my favourite cars in the game, but its 2.5ltr 4cyl engine is rated at ~390hp @9000rpm in the game.

Not only is it impossible to get that sort of power at that sort of revs from that capacity, but in reality, they were producing around 270hp.

This wasn't the 190 that raced under Group A. This was the 190 that raced while DTM was in the process of transferring to Class 1.

There are a few other cars that have similarly overstated power.
From memory, the below cars also have ~200hp in excess.....
- CLK GTR
- BMW LMR
- Toyota GT1

None of the LMPs/Group C cars have accurate power numbers.

 

[Dennisch]

Wow!!! Interesting link Dennisch.

I knew the astronomical levels of development the later model cars had (W202 for instance) but thought this era of DTM was not as huge (i.e. still a fair distance away from F1).

Ok, I'll accept the 390hp rating. That is just rediculous power from 2.5ltrs.

Yeah, it's idiotic, especially when you consider the fact that the engine had to be rebuilt after 600km/375mi....

 

[XPLOSV]

I understand that alot of the power figures for these cars in real life at the time are somewhat inaccurate, but its not that hard to estimate power figures with reasonable accuracy given the inlet restrictors these cars were using at the time and engine capacity with revs and top speeds.......
For instance, the V12 in the LMR was estimated to have 600hp in race trim back in the day. Even accounting for a generous understimation, its hard to believe the true hp figure was 200hp more (its quoted at 800hp in GT5).

Same with the CLK GTR (600hp in reality, 830hp in the game).

THe JGTC cars are represented fairly accurately (as are the DTM cars of the same class). Group C cars are about right also.

I guess at the end of the day, guessing true hp figures from those mentioned race cars is a fairly fruitless exercise given we are only guessing.

 

[Smuttysy]

Ok, I'll accept the 390hp rating. That is just rediculous power from 2.5ltrs,,,

If you think that's ridiculous, how about the Zakspeed Capri from the late 70's and early 80's - 1745cc twin turbo pushing out 560bhp! Even the division 2 car had silly power - 1427cc, single turbo - 460bhp!

Full specs page

 

[dark_ruffo]

Well 80's F1 made 1000hp+ out of a 1.5L engine. Talk about insane.

 

[XPLOSV]

If you think that's ridiculous, how about the Zakspeed Capri from the late 70's and early 80's - 1745cc twin turbo pushing out 560bhp! Even the division 2 car had silly power - 1427cc, single turbo - 460bhp!

Full specs page

That is impressive (and the body modifications to those silhouette type race cars were the coolest), turbo cars are a different kettle of fish.
In the 80's BMW were producing 1200hp cars from 1.5ltr 4cyl powerplants, largly thanks to crazy high octane race fuel and HUGE turbochargers.
http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/8891/1243650877452.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_fSvarQSvbd0/TQKL51enp5I/AAAAAAAACJ8/AduYyzOMZ4c/s1600/BMWf1Turbo.jpg
http://www.gurneyflap.com/Resources/BMW Engine 1.jpg
http://www.billzilla.org/bmw.jpg

Its infinitely more difficult to get similar results from small capacity naturally aspirated cars, even with nutter racing fuel.

 

[Tornado]

I guess at the end of the day, guessing true hp figures from those mentioned race cars is a fairly fruitless exercise given we are only guessing.

Actually, PD already has close to the accurate numbers for most of them. Check what they are when you go to buy them. Those numbers are near what the cars had in real life.



Then when you buy them and view them in the garage the power jumps 150-200 HP.

 

[iamjajo]

You can always use the power limiter to reduce the HP to a level you are more comfortable with.

 

[Smuttysy]

You can always use the power limiter to reduce the HP to a level you are more comfortable with.

"I usually drive the 190E with the engine wound back just to preserve some sort of realism."

Last line of the original post he mentions that he already does that

 

[SavageEvil]

I think that GT4 and GT5 PD gave the race cars their non restricted power numbers, I'm pretty sure that in Le Mans that during qualifying cars output quite a bit more power than they do for the actual race, that would explain how they can put up such quick lap times when running by themselves in qualifying. Nascar does this from course to course, in fact qualifying they run wide open and then are given restrictors plates for race day.

Although I would like if GT started including restrictor plates for races, so we can limit the power in many cars. I'm sure that LMP usually run sub 700hp for races. I am pretty sure this was brought up many times before.

 

[kilttraeger]

<snip>

Although I would like if GT started including restrictor plates for races, so we can limit the power in many cars. I'm sure that LMP usually run sub 700hp for races. I am pretty sure this was brought up many times before.

Restrictor plates as in.. limit the HP of the cars? Which we can do.... even limit the HP in online lobbies?

I think I'm missing something here...

 

[SavageEvil]

Restrictor plates as in.. limit the HP of the cars? Which we can do.... even limit the HP in online lobbies?

I think I'm missing something here...

No not that crazy thing we have in GT right now, actual restrictor plates which reduce power to a set amount based on their size. What we have in GT doesn't reduce hp and torque but a restrictor plate would.

 

[Rotorist]

I think that GT4 and GT5 PD gave the race cars their non restricted power numbers, I'm pretty sure that in Le Mans that during qualifying cars output quite a bit more power than they do for the actual race, that would explain how they can put up such quick lap times when running by themselves in qualifying. Nascar does this from course to course, in fact qualifying they run wide open and then are given restrictors plates for race day.

Although I would like if GT started including restrictor plates for races, so we can limit the power in many cars. I'm sure that LMP usually run sub 700hp for races. I am pretty sure this was brought up many times before.

Totally right post! I remember well reading about 1991 Mazda 787B (winner car of 24H Mans) that in qualification the 4rotor 26B produced 830PS and for the endurance races 700PS. That's exactly the max HP 787 reaches in GT5. I like very much this selection of PD. We like to see the absolute power of these monsters.

 

[Fredde_swe]

This is insane

"It has a 16V, 4 cylinder, 2192 cm3 (133 cui), 1050 hp volvo engine"



And like dark_ruffo said, the F1-cars in the 80's, wow.

BMW built a 1.5l engine that produced 1400hp (over 5.5 bar)