modding is out of control!

xmatt · Mar 16, 2005

Hey all, my first post here. I hope this isn't one that's been heard a million times before, but I couldn't find anything looking around.

I'm finding it very frustrating that modding is such a necessity to win races. You nearly have to assume that going into any race that the other cars will be modded near their max. I know you can always buy a faster car, but am I alone in thinking it'd be really fun to have races against similar cars that are at or near stock? It doesn't feel like I'm really driving a given car when it has to have a giant turbo, racing suspension etc etc.

This combined with the fact that, unless I'm missing something, we don't have the option to run qualification laps to start at the head of a race means that you always need to out-power your opponents to pass their highly-modified, line-blocking butts within the span of a race. I just find myself farming a couple races to get money enough to buy cars I like, put street tires on them, and seeing how fast I can get around various tracks without competition. Maybe if there were an option for each race where you could turn off most mods for your opponents, but you also would have to meet the same requirement...

placebo · Mar 17, 2005

i know that in gt1+2 there were stock races where you could only enter the race if you were stock...i was hoping to have those back in gt4...oh well.

d3p0 · Mar 17, 2005

I've won plenty of races with just an oil change and now that I've unlocked the extreme events, i'm looking forward to winning those in class (especially F1). There's also the roadster endurance and the various manufacturer races (especially the ones requiring older cars). If you're accustomed to being in first on the first lap until the checkered flag, this simply isn't realistic. Depending on your driving, you should be able to slowly move up the field and take the checkered flag towards the end of the race while staying in class. The one lap magic driving missions are perfect examples of this and that type of precision is often required to win while staying in class.

xmatt · Mar 17, 2005

Oh absolutely. I hate just drag racing past everybody at the start and then holding the lead. But my frustration is that often "in class" means racing against cars at near maximum level of modification. I'd love to do the first Japanese race with the RX7s, NSXs, Supras etc. in stock form, but it's just less interesting when they're all modded to 400hp with racing suspensions etc. And it's an extra bit frustrating when you're driving a nice precise race with an evenly matched car and you get taken out by a dumb AI driver.. :yuck:

d3p0
I've won plenty of races with just an oil change and now that I've unlocked the extreme events, i'm looking forward to winning those in class (especially F1). There's also the roadster endurance and the various manufacturer races (especially the ones requiring older cars). If you're accustomed to being in first on the first lap until the checkered flag, this simply isn't realistic. Depending on your driving, you should be able to slowly move up the field and take the checkered flag towards the end of the race while staying in class. The one lap magic driving missions are perfect examples of this and that type of precision is often required to win while staying in class.

ferret-turbo · Mar 17, 2005

only race I have seen that only allows stock cars is the supercar festival in the professional hall, hopefully there is more like that in extreme hall/whatever else

bfifteenv · Mar 17, 2005

I don't think I ALWAYS need to mod my car to it's max to win all races, but the thing is, you never know. In GT2 most of the races had a HP limit. It gave you a good idea of what you needed to have a fun competitive race. In GT4 I find I buy a car for a race, go give it a shot, find I need more power, better handling, whatever, go back to the dealer upgrade a little, go back to the race to try again, find I need something else, back to the dealer, over and over. OR I go to the race find I need more, go to the dealer, buy stuff, go back and obliterate the competition and get 2 A-Spec points.

Not much fun in either case.

It would be nice to see races with HP/weight ratio limitations or max HP or minimum weight. Something to give the player a good idea of what he needs to be competitive, but not outclass the competition.

I guess this is what A-Spec was kind of going for, but it should tell you at the Championship title screen, where it tells you what tires and cars are elliglible, what the A-Spec points will be with the car you are currently in. Less time tweaking just to be competitive, but not overloy so, and more time racing!

***Edit*** Also Extreme Hall is a huge disappointment to me. The Championships are:

Something requiring a LeMans car
Something requiring a slower LeMans car
Something requiring a car you can only get from racing a a series requiring a LeMans car
LeMans cars at real tracks
Expensive Euro cars that you could beat with a much cheaper car if they let you run one
More LeMans cars

The LM cars are fun, but all drive to similar to warrant 5 race series...

kensei · Mar 17, 2005

I disagree. I can't think of a single race that I have had to modify a car for in GT mode (meaning adding power and engine mods), beyond an oil changes and tires (N for normal, R for race). In Gt2 and Gt3 you kinda had to modify cars to compete at times, but I haven't found that the case with Gt4. I'm 97% done and have been playing it since January 15th.

Wait I just remembered a race I had to modify the car for. The Opel speedster race, that was a PITA...but that is the only one that comes to mind.

I've also not been out gunning the competition. My rule of thumb is if I am more than a secondahead after one lap I stop and go find a new car or change tires.

gt3freak_2001 · Mar 17, 2005

I think it all comes down to how well you drive, if you use the DFP or the DS2 etc. as to how much you need to upgrade your car.

Thirdeye · Mar 17, 2005

I always try the race before modding it to see if it's possible, and i've actually done a few without anything more than an oil change. Maybe it's just me, though.

chrissims · Mar 17, 2005

Thirdeye
I always try the race before modding it to see if it's possible, and i've actually done a few without anything more than an oil change. Maybe it's just me, though.

yeah ive done that to quite a few races too but theres no chance of that if u b-spec some like I do to build up my drivers profile I have to max out the car for him to be able to overtake 5th place for christs sake :s so all we can do is hope they are gonna bring back tight race limits for gt5

Hyperglide · Mar 17, 2005

kensei
I disagree. I can't think of a single race that I have had to modify a car for in GT mode (meaning adding power and engine mods), beyond an oil changes and tires (N for normal, R for race). In Gt2 and Gt3 you kinda had to modify cars to compete at times, but I haven't found that the case with Gt4. I'm 97% done and have been playing it since January 15th.

Wait I just remembered a race I had to modify the car for. The Opel speedster race, that was a PITA...but that is the only one that comes to mind.

I've also not been out gunning the competition. My rule of thumb is if I am more than a secondahead after one lap I stop and go find a new car or change tires.

Ya that Opel Speedster race is a PITA I agree. What's more of a pain in the ass is the Peugeot 206 series, too! ARGGHHH I'm having such a hard time even placing 5th in these races. I did the Infineon raceway in my Opel Speedster (fully tuned btw), and first place smoked me by 29+ seconds in just 3 fricking laps! Anyone know of a way to tune my Peugeot and Opel so I can win these very frustrating races?

xmatt · Mar 17, 2005

kensei
I disagree. I can't think of a single race that I have had to modify a car for in GT mode (meaning adding power and engine mods), beyond an oil changes and tires (N for normal, R for race). In Gt2 and Gt3 you kinda had to modify cars to compete at times, but I haven't found that the case with Gt4. I'm 97% done and have been playing it since January 15th.

Wait I just remembered a race I had to modify the car for. The Opel speedster race, that was a PITA...but that is the only one that comes to mind.

I've also not been out gunning the competition. My rule of thumb is if I am more than a secondahead after one lap I stop and go find a new car or change tires.

Wow, you can seriously win the first series of Japanese races with an unmodified version of one of the cars you race against? I had my NSX up around 400 hp and I was right with the pack on the straights. I find it hard to go from last to first in 5 laps with equal power -- running stock I just can't imagine. Maybe my skills really need work... :crazy:

And yeah, winning by a mile is no fun at all.

FRST · Mar 17, 2005

early races can be easily beaten without tuning your cars

pickup challenge = f150 ligthning
nissan's silvia challenge = Nissan Silvia Spec R Aero (S15) '99
FR challenge = Mazda RX-7 Type R Bathurst R '01 (was 1st vs Z4 and M coupe at the start of the long straight in Tsukuba on 1st lap, really a car above the others)
FF challenge = Honda Civic Type-R (EP) '01 with an older model 98 you must tune it and will earn less A-spec points and it is still a lot harder than with this stock EP 01 model, wasn't laughing when I beat the cpu by 20secs with it stock :/ when I had hard times winning with my 233cv 98....
4WD and Mitsubishi Evo challenges = mitsubishi evolution 8 MR (brakes and exhaust upgraded)

all those cars will easily win beginners challenge as they simply are the latest and best models and you will race against older ones...won't get much A-spec points with them tough except some races with the RX-7 and the civic EP

something I discovered with the civic is sometimes instead of modding your car to the max you better buy a brand new one ..the best available for your race and it will go a lot better without any need of tuning it and possibly give more A-spec points.
Don't know about later tough I'm doin g the "one make" races before dealing with the JGTC "crap" .....don't like race cars,won't drive them in real life anyway...

Allnighte · Mar 17, 2005

are you sure?
i've only been using cars that i won from the lisence tests and races (+an MG and dodge RAM that i bought myself) to race with. i still haven't bought a stage 2 turbo for anything i own. i usually always get a chip, stage 1 lightening, and a racing flywheel (these are the cheapest upgrades), and that's enough for me to win. most of my races show about 50-70 aspec points when i do this (though have been 200, and 1 or 2 series of races were 10. the lightweight car cup was one of them)

jv38 · Mar 17, 2005

kensei
... Wait I just remembered a race I had to modify the car for. The Opel speedster race, that was a PITA...

I ran the first race today and it really suck... Full mode and that thing have no stability or acceleration, very tricky to drive. :yuck:

I probably do one a day until they are all done. :crazy:

FUNKED1 · Mar 17, 2005

bfifteenv
***Edit*** Also Extreme Hall is a huge disappointment to me. The Championships are:

Something requiring a LeMans car
Something requiring a slower LeMans car
Something requiring a car you can only get from racing a a series requiring a LeMans car
LeMans cars at real tracks
Expensive Euro cars that you could beat with a much cheaper car if they let you run one
More LeMans cars

The LM cars are fun, but all drive to similar to warrant 5 race series...

So true. Hooray for B-Spec.

Car_Guy · Mar 17, 2005

I completely dissagree, i though less modding was requireed then ever before, I've won most races simply changine oil, light flywheel, weight reduction #1 and sometiems a racing chip, but most of that is becaues i can't really drive all that well, In the first gt's i had to mod my cars alot more then in GT4 to win

kennythebomb · Mar 17, 2005

***Edit*** Also Extreme Hall is a huge disappointment to me. The Championships are:

Something requiring a LeMans car
Something requiring a slower LeMans car
Something requiring a car you can only get from racing a a series requiring a LeMans car
LeMans cars at real tracks
Expensive Euro cars that you could beat with a much cheaper car if they let you run one
More LeMans cars

I disagree. I have done most of the stuff in Extreme Events without any Lemans cars. I put 1009 miles on my Motul Pitwork Z and now I am using the BMW Mclaren F1. Both cars needed some work in the handling department to make them competitive against cars in a higher class, but with some good driving and hard work I managed to beat them in all but Nurburgring (sp) in the all stars. I did the dream car and the last one with the expensive sports cars, and top speed on the oval all without lemans cars.

kennythebomb · Mar 17, 2005

Oh, and I found that in the earlier races I usually bought tires, added some hp, nitrous, and brakes and that was enough to beat most of the cars.

Acid X · Mar 17, 2005

I find the best way to find out what your up against is by previewing the race first. If your trying to enter a series, just go to the first race (not through the series entry, just on the race-list) and hit "Preview". It will start up a randomly generated replay of the race, and will state the power of that car at the beginning of the replay, just like a regular one. Then just try to keep your car a little under or at that power level and your guaranteed a good race. Sometimes it may be a little high, even if only 1 mod on your car makes it up to the power on the race screen. This may cause you to have a low point race.. Just simply take off the part you installed. Oh, and ALWAYS do an oil change.. Just for the extra boost. Sometimes you can have extreme difficulty in races with low points... But its rare.

IS300Racer · Mar 17, 2005

If you dont want the trouble of modding then you should check out Enthusia Professional Racing. It's being made by konami and is supposed to have a realistic physics engine(much like GT3/GT4, Forza, etc).