MR turns faster than FR

  • Thread starter Ceolix
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Ceolix

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Ceolix
i don't know how, but today i lost a race against a ferrari
i had my BRZ which was a FR, and it was supposed to turn better.
can't understand how he made faster turns though. my turning
wheel was always getting red quickly ,i was understeering so much.
and the MR was turning better than me somehow.
It really made no sense to me. You guys will tell me i made a bad tune
i don't think it is because my BRZ can turn very well when it's wheels
aren't wear. what does this even mean?

help please
 
Bad tune and/or overdriving the car. With the new physics model you can't go flying through corners and overheat the tires because you'll lose a ton of grip. Drive the car smoother and within it's limits and you'll be faster. Slow in/ fast out has never been more true in GT than now.

The BRZ is the first FR I chose to tune at 450PP on SH tires and it'll be up soon. Stock it did understeer quite a bit and was reluctant to rotate. Tuned, it's a beast!!:lol:
 
Ceolix
i don't know how, but today i lost a race against a ferrari
i had my BRZ which was a FR, and it was supposed to turn better.
can't understand how he made faster turns though. my turning
wheel was always getting red quickly ,i was understeering so much.
and the MR was turning better than me somehow.
It really made no sense to me. You guys will tell me i made a bad tune
i don't think it is because my BRZ can turn very well when it's wheels
aren't wear. what does this even mean?

help please
Click to expand...
don't know where you heard that FR cars are faster around corners then MR cars.
that is wrong.
MR cars are and will be and always be faster around corners then FR cars.
only down side to being faster around corner is they tend to be naitivily over steer cars.
or neutral balanced.
 
Ceolix
i don't know how, but today i lost a race against a ferrari
i had my BRZ which was a FR, and it was supposed to turn better.
can't understand how he made faster turns though. my turning
wheel was always getting red quickly ,i was understeering so much.
and the MR was turning better than me somehow.
It really made no sense to me. You guys will tell me i made a bad tune
i don't think it is because my BRZ can turn very well when it's wheels
aren't wear. what does this even mean?

help please
Click to expand...

MR turns better than FR?

You_Don%27t_Say.jpg



Anyhow.. MR will every single time out-turn FR car due to lower front end inertia. In other words, lighter front end turns in faster. Whoever told you that FR turns faster is wrong. Don't get me wrong, BRZ is a good car, but MR vehicles are in entirely different league. Even MR2 and Honda Beat could out turn the BRZ, let alone Ferrari..
 
It doesnt make sense to me. FR cars supposeddly have the engine which adds grip to the front wheels. MR cars should have less frontal grip because they receive less grip from the middle engine, and FR engine is located far more front than MR, and you say MR has lower end, so if FR engine adds more weight to the wheels shouldn't it be more low than MR?
 
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The inertia wants to pull the car on a constant bering while the tyres are pulling the car around the corner. If you imagine the car mid corner, the tyres are pulling it in while the momentum of the weight or inertia is pulling it out. If the centre of gravity is further foward it will pull the nose out (understeer) further back it will pull the tail out (oversteer). While a nose heavy car will generally spin it's wheels easier due to less weight holding them down it will be naturally understeery due to this. Hard to explain without a drawing but it is basically the difference between chassis oversteer and power oversteer.
 
Ceolix
It doesnt make sense to me. FR cars supposeddly have the engine which adds grip to the front wheels. MR cars should have less frontal grip because they receive less grip from the middle engine, and FR engine is located far more front than MR, and you say MR has lower end, so if FR engine adds more weight to the wheels shouldn't it be more low than MR?
Click to expand...
 
Ceolix
It doesnt make sense to me. FR cars supposeddly have the engine which adds grip to the front wheels. MR cars should have less frontal grip because they receive less grip from the middle engine, and FR engine is located far more front than MR, and you say MR has lower end, so if FR engine adds more weight to the wheels shouldn't it be more low than MR?
Click to expand...

The only thing the weight of the position of an engine does is add traction and stability. In FR cars, because the engine is in front, the front wheels are hard to turn as the weight is more apparent in front, but less weight in the rear, so it slightly understeers and feels better to drive, so it becomes a popular, conventional method for sports cars. In an MR car, because it is position amidships (close to the center), it has a relatively balanced weight ratio, so it is balanced in a nutshell. Less weight on the wheels as well, but it's problems include a lighter rear which during accleration, it will be prone to oversteer, so those types of cars require careful throttle control, but due to it's lightness, it is better for performance models.

If you drive a RR car like a RUF CTR Yellowbird, you should be able to learn the effects of the placement of the engine and what differs from an FR car and MR car.
 
Normalaatsra
The only thing the weight of the position of an engine does is add traction and stability. In FR cars, because the engine is in front, the front wheels are hard to turn as the weight is more apparent in front, but less weight in the rear, so it slightly understeers and feels better to drive, so it becomes a popular, conventional method for sports cars. In an MR car, because it is position amidships (close to the center), it has a relatively balanced weight ratio, so it is balanced in a nutshell. Less weight on the wheels as well, but it's problems include a lighter rear which during accleration, it will be prone to oversteer, so those types of cars require careful throttle control, but due to it's lightness, it is better for performance models.

If you drive a RR car like a RUF CTR Yellowbird, you should be able to learn the effects of the placement of the engine and what differs from an FR car and MR car.
Click to expand...


so RR turn better than MR?
 
No. RR cars are at risk of excessive steering. If you turn a RR car, it will definitely slide around the corner. So it would be unfeasible to turn quicker. MR is obviously the better one in this.

If you have any of PD's Beyond the Apex 15th Anniversary book, you can learn how the position of the car and it's power placement affects the steering.
 
Normalaatsra
No. RR cars are at risk of excessive steering. If you turn a RR car, it will definitely slide around the corner. So it would be unfeasible to turn quicker. MR is obviously the better one in this.

If you have any of PD's Beyond the Apex 15th Anniversary book, you can learn how the position of the car and it's power placement affects the steering.
Click to expand...


but following your theory RR don't have any weight on front wheels so it should be faster
turning than MR while MR has a little weight fron the engine
 
There is more involved than just drivetrain type in determining the handling of a car.

Typically a MR car will have sharper handling because of being closer to a 50/50 weight distribution, shorter wheelbase and the wheels pushed out closer to the corners of the car.
That being said there are a number of FR cars that also have similar balance.
The problem with a RR is that your engine, the heavyist part of a car is placed behind the rear axle which will tend to unload the front end. You do need some weight on the front end for proper handling.
Porsche has spent decades and developed some of the most sofisticated suspension designs trying to overcome the shortcomings of a RR layout and make them more friendly to the average driver.
 
Isn't FR also supposed to be 50/50 weight distribution?
well it should because one weight is on the front that is the engine
other is the traction that is at the rear, so i can't really full understand why MR keeps
turning better or have better handling
 
Ceolix
Isn't FR also supposed to be 50/50 weight distribution?
well it should because one weight is on the front that is the engine
other is the traction that is at the rear, so i can't really full understand why MR keeps
turning better or have better handling
Click to expand...
Drivetrain layout doesn't determine weight distribution completely.
With an MR the engine and transmission are between the two axles meaning in general they will have better weight distribution.
Most FR cars have the engine over the front axle and the transmission just behind it which makes them much heavier towards the front placing a greater load on the front tires.
Some FR sports cars and coupés have pushed the engine back behind the front axle helping weight distribution. They may also locate the transmission at the rear axle further enhancing weight distribution for improved handling.

Bottom line its easier for a company to build a well balanced MR car and will cost less to develop than trying to achieve the same with other drivetrain layouts.

FRs are generally a more practical and cheaper solution for practical everyday passenger vehicles, but an MR layout is a more efficient layout for a sharp handling high performance car.
 
Basically, the engine puts too much pressure on the tires causing them to lose grip and
understeer

Although MR has a middle engine which does not put stress onto the front tires
and maintains the grip. Is it that?
 
Ceolix
Basically, the engine puts too much pressure on the tires causing them to lose grip and
understeer

Although MR has a middle engine which does not put stress onto the front tires
and maintains the grip. Is it that?
Click to expand...

theres to many factors thats show MR being superior to FR to list lol
 
Ceolix
Isn't FR also supposed to be 50/50 weight distribution?
well it should because one weight is on the front that is the engine
other is the traction that is at the rear, so i can't really full understand why MR keeps
turning better or have better handling
Click to expand...
Its not just about the weight distibution, its about where the weight is located. If the weight is located in the middle of the car, it is much easier for the car to rotate, there is less inertia to the car turning. The weight of the car is right over the 'pivot point'

If the weight is at the front and rear of the car, then it is away from the pivot point, which will make the car lazy and slower to respond.
 
umm...F1 is MR. If FR was physically faster through corners, F1 would be FR.

RR is faster in a straight line. More traction vs all others.
 

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