MR2 and Celica to dissapear from production?

  • Thread starter Thread starter WanganDreams
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Tha makes little sence since both sell well, and that Toyota are supposed to be working on the next MR2, unless they don't call it the MR2, because from what I've heared they want the top spec version to be competing with Ferrari and Porsche for performance.
 
Yup, it was in the L.A. Time today (or yesterday, can't remember). Too bad, but I don't particularly care for Toyota much these days anyway... their cars are positively insipid.
 
I'm just sad to see even not so sporty cars disapeer from the Japanese market. First in 99 the Supra, 3000GT VR4, Eclipse GSX, RX7, Skyline GT-R R34 got taken off, and now this? What's going on?
 
WanganDreams
What's going on?
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the fact that these sports cars aren't as profitable when compared to the other cars in the manufacturer's production lines. Add in declining sales for several reasons and well...it's expected that companies will start pulling out.
 
I ok with the MR2 or MRS, But why the Celica, thats got a great lineage and it seems toyota are losing profit as badly as mitsubishi have, and there almost busted.
 
I don't see why you people just don't ask me these questions first.

MR2 will be cancelled next year. There simply aren't enough sales (for a multitude of reasons) to justify continued production. Celica's a lot trickier. Cancellation is a definite possibility. With the addition of the tC to alternate brand Scion's line-up it makes the Celica a lot harder to justify, particularly with the Celica's own recent sales trouble. A redesign with a Toyota badge is unlikely, but that doesn't mean Scion won't get an all-new version of the Celica in addition to the tC.
 
Celica sales trouble? I see about 3 in 10 minutes of driving in my part of the world. :confused: Not that I mind, they seem like great little cars, and with a few different bodykits they can look sharp.
 
I agree that MR2 hasn't been that sucessfull of a car...but I just think that if Japanese car makers would go back to making their "sports cars" being actual sports cars it may bring the profits back to where they want them.
 
Jordan
Celica sales trouble? I see about 3 in 10 minutes of driving in my part of the world. :confused: Not that I mind, they seem like great little cars, and with a few different bodykits they can look sharp.
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I don't agree - they're slow sellers practically everywhere, particularly compared to competition. One thing is that the key words in this market now are V6, quick, and cheap. It misses out in the first category and that's huge - most major competitors (Mitsubishi Eclipse, Volkswagen GTI, Hyundai Tiburon) have V6s and those who don't offer 4-cylinders with more power than Toyota's (Acura RSX, Ford Focus SVT). This wouldn't be a major issue except price, which we'll come to later.

Next is quick. Even with the action package (:D) the Celica GT-S gets to sixty in 7.4 seconds, about class-average.

But you can't be class-average when you're charging what Toyota's charging. The base GT-S (manual without ABS, leather, or 16" wheels) is $22200. Mitsubishi's at $21600 for an Eclipse GT (3.0L V6) without options; Volkswagen charges $22100 for a quicker GTI with more room, more stuff, and a larger engine; Acura only charges $23300 for an RSX Type-S with 20 more horsepower, leather, a sunroof, and a 6-disc CD changer and class-leader Mini charges just $19900 - three or four options and you're there.

The truth of the matter is Toyota's done a poor job of predicting changes in the class - the 2002 Camry is a great example. It came out along with the new Altima, which had 240-horsepower in its V6 while Toyota had just 210. So Toyota, not seeing the trend, then took two years to put a more powerful engine in the Camry SE. God knows how many sales it lost to Honda who saw what was happening and gave the Accord the power it needed to compete. Another example is Sequoia, which was clearly designed to compete with the 1997-2002 Ford Expedition. The only problem was that just two years after the debut of the Sequoia, Ford redesigned the Expedition leaving Toyota in the dust with an outdated model.

I just think that if Japanese car makers would go back to making their "sports cars" being actual sports cars it may bring the profits back to where they want them.
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For a car enthusiast this may seem sensible, but Toyota (Supra), Subaru (SVX), Mitsubishi (3000GT), Nissan (300ZX), and Mazda (RX-7) all got burned in the mid-1990s with "true sports cars" that cost a bundle to engineer and didn't sell at all. More recently, GM refused to abandon the "true sports car" ideals with the Chevrolet Camaro and Pontiac Firebird and the cars were cancelled due to slow sales, while Ford got out of the true sports car game with the Mustang and it's still selling well. The truth is that only a small percentage of people want true sports cars anymore.

Anyway, why engineer a car when you don't have to? Look at Nissan - they've gotten an unbelievably large image boost in the US from the Skyline, a vehicle that was never even sold or advertised here. As long as the fanboys continue to love the thing, all Nissan has to do is slap a look-alike badge and ten horsepower onto the Sentra to make a profit from the Skyline. It's brilliance, really.
 
WanganDreams
I agree that MR2 hasn't been that sucessfull of a car...but I just think that if Japanese car makers would go back to making their "sports cars" being actual sports cars it may bring the profits back to where they want them.
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That's actually the problem. Cars like the MR2 run unique platforms and require unique development, and with fewer units sold R&D costs per unit are accordingly higher, and it's harder to make a buck out of them. That's probably why the Celica's held on as long as it has - shared platform, suspension and engine mean all you need to do is slap on a new body, do a quick tune on the suspension and you're on your way.

That's why Mazda used the old 323 1.6, and later the 1.8, for the Miata - takes a big chunk of the cost out it. Every now and then, Mazda do a bit of a redesign taking into account the engineering advances they've made in recent years (or bolt on a low blow turbo), eke out another couple of horsepower, have a bit of a fiddle with the suspension and styling, and voila, the Miata rolls on for another 6 or 7 years. I would imagine that little convertible is making a heck of a lot more per unit than the S2000, which runs a unique engine and platform.

See, kids, it's all about money. Even when they say it's about the spirit and prestige of the brand, it's actually about the money.
 
WanganDreams
I'm just sad to see even not so sporty cars disapeer from the Japanese market. First in 99 the Supra, 3000GT VR4, Eclipse GSX, RX7, Skyline GT-R R34 got taken off, and now this? What's going on?
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Eclipse GSX was in the japanese market? I wasn't aware of that......
But anywho....No love for the lack of GVR4's since 2000?.....You couldn't go wrong with the 2000 Galant VR4....I have a question...do they still produce stagea's or whatever or did that die with the Skyline?.......Mr-S = sporty car...just not a great RACE car in stock trim...doesn't mean it isn't sporty..
Celica....=...not so sporty car
 
I've always thought Toyota was horribly behind on the times for everything they produce. Their entire lineup blows chunks (IMO) except for the Matrix (which I think is awesome), and they have had good things done to their minivan, but I'm not too knowledgable about those. In short - Toyota = blah. Mazda 3>Corolla, RSX>Celica, Everything>MR2, Just about everything>Camry. Scion is just a joke. They should have released the tC before the boxmobiles. Part of having a brand name that sticks out with youth is to A - make sure you know what the **** the kids want (they blew that), and also to design the cars looking sporty and hip, not like a ****ing box. Someone says Scion, most people will say 'Oh, that boxy car.' Yes M5, we all know how stupid judging a car by looks is, but you know that it plays a major role in how people percieve a brand, and when all of your lineup is not sporty, and half of your lineup looks like a box, chances are you won't score big with the young crowd. However....sticking the celica engine in the tC - good idea, making the tC look sportyish - good idea, if this car had come out instead of the boxmobile - might have hit the crowd toyota was aiming for.

Edit - Drifster - what the hell makes you think that they produced a galant VR4 in 2000?
 
I can't see why the MR2 is being pulled but the Celica's replacement is obvious. (tC)

ShobTheBob, your opinion might not nessicarily be the ones of others, 'round here the nearby Dayton and DCH Freehold Toyota/Scion dealers are struggling to keep them in the lot. And it's the young ppl buying them and hookin' 'em up.

WanaganDreams on the R34 - it's called evolution. The Skyline has grown up into a proper, adult-like car that doesn't forget its younger years. The 350Z has the spot of the old R34. The V35 is now more-or-less a GT car than a sport coupe.
 
The skyline hasn't grown up at all. It's called trim levels, and currently, the level that the GTR was at is simply non in production. The skyline hasn't "gone back to it's roots" or "changed it's focus" at all. Ah, and the MR2 thing - it's a horrible buy - end of story. Horrible power, lackluster performance, and a Toyota pricetag. Nobody is buying them at the rate that Toyota needs to make a profit, so they're getting rid of it. Same reason GM killed the Fbody.
 
IMHO the Syline's improved over R34. It looks cleaner and nowhere as 2f2f as the R34, it now has a non turbo engine (and a good one to boot) the interior has gotten nicer, it's bigger (I think) and it's a more sensible car. Enough to deserve an Infiniti badge around here. The 350Z is probably the next best thing to an R34 RWD GT Turbo (I honestly don't know what it's called; but it's the top RWD R34 model) Even the rear wing is gone. It's grown up.
 
live4speed
Tha makes little sence since both sell well, and that Toyota are supposed to be working on the next MR2, unless they don't call it the MR2, because from what I've heared they want the top spec version to be competing with Ferrari and Porsche for performance.
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it makes perfect sense
scion is taking over
scion is a division of toyota
can't have the MR2 and celica competing against scion
 
Gosh I hate the new MR2's (the spyders) They look like pokemon from the front and are very underpowered. It's such a shame since the older ones were awesome and had over 200 hp. I'm glad the new MR2's are leaving.
 
I think they'd be awesome cars if they had some balls. I find them to be quite sexy, but the abhorred lack of power is just unbearable. I think they would have been a much bigger hit if they had 180-190 hp.
 

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