Music Production - Mac OS vs Windows

[eXtaticus]

NOTE: Seeing as this topic relates to both Computer & Technology and Music, I was conflicted as to which subforum in which I should have posted it - and if I wasn't right to post it in this one, please move it accordingly. Thanks.

Now, I'm fully aware that Apple Mac computers and their exclusive software have managed to successfully worm their way into becoming the de-facto standards for professional-grade music production, and that most members of the Mac-using media are perfectly happy about this - but I, for one, object massively to the Mac monopoly in the music industry, and I'll happily explain why:

Windows PCs have endless reams of add-ons in terms of both hardware and software that can easily ace Macs in all aspects including music production - and the only thing that stops the music producers of this world from seeing that is the aggressive marketing push that Apple puts behind their own software, Logic Pro; the Windows-exclusive Fruity Loops (a program that I am a massive advocate of) and platform-agnostic Ableton Live and Cubase are vastly superior to whatever exclusive software that Mac OS has in their every aspect.

Want to install a 7.1-channel sound card with integrated real-time synth acceleration and multiple microphone inputs, AND use your choice of drivers with it? On Windows, go ahead - on a Mac, you'll have another thing coming. Want to plug in a ton of MIDI controllers and hook them all into different synth patches so that you can run an entire band's instruments from one PC, but you don't have enough USB ports to do so? Install a USB controller card on a PC - and forget it on a Mac. Want better performance and more efficient, streamlined programs so that you can play more complex, multi-layered pieces of music without your computer stuttering? Windows 7 and most applications for it are exceptionally well-optimised - the OSX family, on the other hand, is a total embarrassment in that respect. And so the list goes on.

On top of that, there's the unfavourably weighted price-to-performance ratio, the guarantee of fast hardware obsolescence and lack of guarantee on future software support - and Windows emerges as the clear victor. ASIO is an unbelievably powerful tool once you get it working, (which has been as easy as installing an EXE on every PC but one that I've tried) and its efficiency and low-latency are unbeatable by anything that Mac OS has to offer - and I DON'T say this as a Windows fanboy, either; in fact, I couldn't be further from it these days, and Linux would be better than both if I could get Wine's real-time drivers to work correctly. As it stands, though, Windows is the clear victor in all respects.

Additionally, Logic Pro (Apple's own Mac-exclusive Digital Audio Workstation) doesn't support VST, (a universal synth plugin format that Cubase, Ableton and FL are all compatible with) has a far more rigid and awkward interface for music sequencing than almost any other DAW on the market, and suffers latency when recording MIDI data - and Fruity Loops has none of these issues. Fruity Loops handles VST plugins so well that you can run many of them at high quality settings on Atom-powered netbooks with ASIO drivers - and the performance scales almost perfectly on more powerful hardware. It is, as the marketing tagline says, the fastest way from your brain to the speakers - but Apple's control of the media and inherent skills at absolute monopolization allows them to push advertising far further than smaller companies like Image-Line could ever hope to. And the inferior functionality of their software is evident of the fact that they spend all of their budget on publicising it rather than making it universally good.

Now, if I was being cynical, I'd suggest that...

Wait.

I am being cynical. Let me rephrase what I was about to say:

I'm convinced, though, that the only real and tangible reason why Apple refuses to support the universal VST format is because they have their own Mac-exclusive plugin format, AU - and while VSTs work on all systems, AU only works on products licensed for Mac OS, (to keep users and software developers locked into their system) and the best way to crush the rival format is to refuse to support it in high-selling official software. It's because of this blend of lack of vile business tactics, software functionality, inefficiency, incompatibility, ridiculous price, horribly rigid and poorly designed interfaces and limited hardware choice that Logic Pro and Mac OS are inferior by a considerable margin to their Windows alternatives - and it's only because of Apple's prevalence in the media and cemented status in the minds of consumers that their software is so popular and widely used.

So, what are your thoughts about Macs vs Windows PCs in terms of music production? Are there too many bites taken out of the Apple for their software to be worthwhile, or is Windows' double-glazing just a little too soundproof for your liking? Your responses are eagerly awaited.

 

[NissanSkylineN1]

It all ends up to you and what interface you like.

For me, Windows seems like the most cost effective solution.

 

[NLxAROSA]

Definitely Windows. Lots of DAWs to choose from (and cheap too, like Cakewalk, my personal favorite ), and tons and tons of plugins in various formats (VST, DXi, etc.). Hardware is also dirt-cheap. Apple used to be the de facto standard, but that is no longer the case since Windows XP (before XP Windows was never a serious competitor).

However, AU is not as bad as it sounds. It can't be compared directly to VST, because AU is basically the same as ASIO with VST added on top. E.g. the driver part is hardwired into the OS and it provides an interface to any app that wants to use it, not just audio/music apps, but any apps. It's the single reason why iOS is so good at low-latency audio. Also, there are plenty of VST2AU adapters/converters.

 

[Pako]

Well.....here is my take, and this is from my own personal experiences.

12 years ago, I decided to build a project studio in my basement. From a complete room built and designed for recording, I would have it sound proofed and acoustically sterile. The goal was to being my own multichannel recording for my own band but quickly began charging for my services for other people as well.

Being the PC guy that I was, I built a monster machine with a SCSI raid for speed which was required for multichannel audio. I choose Protools as it's just the standard across so many larger studios.

Anyways, I was in the middle of recording a client when I get a BSOD on my Windows machine. I lost all of his session files. It was embarrassing and very unprofessional. The next day I ordered a dual processor G4. I have used that G4 for the past 11 years and have not had one problem with it. I can track up to 16 tracks simultaneously. The only time I have ever had any issues is when I load too many plugins at once across 32 tracks, but the thing is 12 years old.

My Mac is a toaster that makes toast. That is all I use it for and it has served me without flaw. With that said, I have 6 other PC's for my "other" computing needs.

That's my thought on the subject.

 

[sesselpupser]

You're talking about Windows and Mac OSes as if they're the 360 and PS3 and you want to play Call of Duty. That is Really Not Professional. Now grow up, stop sulking about Apple's well-engineered dominance of the creative software industry, work out what you need, charge your clients (I am presuming you're doing this professionally, anyway) enough so that you can afford to buy what you need (this is how all businesses work) and then go and buy them. Brand loyalty has no place where work is concerned, I for one despise Windows OSes but I need to use them for my CAD work, so upon identifying this requirement I went out and bought a pile of PC components and built a PC to sit alongside my Mac, which I also hate (for different reasons) but also need for my design work, without a second thought about how I've always used Macs and prefer Macs when given the choice. To be honest I just really dislike operating systems so I think of them as tools, because that's what they are, because it's hard to hate a screwdriver.

Also let's not forget that Apples are the music industry standard for a reason, if they were really as bad as you say then that would not be the case; well-known producers and production companies would simply stop buying Macs and go and buy PCs instead. I know plenty of people who produce music at varying levels of professionalism, and guess what they use? Macs. These people aren't idiots and they also depend on their hardware to make money, and when your food, clothing and rent is on the line you just do not care about which brand you're using, and if the brand you are using is letting you down, you drop it immediately and go and buy what you need to do the job. Simple as that, really.

I love how you talk about hardware obsolescence, how long has MIDI been around now? You also appear to be comparing a PC tower with an all-in-one toy like an iMac, whereas serious professionals use Pros or PowerMac G5s, those have these things called 'PCIe' slots at the back where you can actually plug in cards that add ports and things for you to attach things to. Crazy, isn't it, that Apple make a computer that is aimed at the sort of person who might need to connect an entire band's worth of instruments to? It's as if they saw that requirement coming. Bizarre.

Oh and let's not forget the one single thing that kills your argument completely dead entirely on it's own: Macs can run any Windows OS since XP and will likely continue to do so from now on. Why buy two computers when one will do? The only hardware upgrades you need to buy from Apple themselves are graphics cards, and even they can be flashed with some knowledge, but you don't need a good graphics card to produce music. Ok, so you need to replace the entire computer when you want to upgrade the processor -- No, wait, no you don't, the Pro has a sub-board for the processor and RAM which can be swapped, but you probably won't find those for sale in an Apple Store. And even if you did still have to replace the whole computer, I've never heard of a professional changing their Pro or G5 PowerMac more often than every five years. We have a PowerMac G5 in this house that is 9 years old this year, in fact, and my Dad uses PowerMac G4s in his office which must be getting on for 12 years old now.

In short, go and buy a Mac.

 

[shmogt]

I agree with the guy above and the guy who said he built a sound room and bought windows first. I guarantee you have never actually owned a Mac before. I was like you at first and thought how awful it was for various reasons and how much more expensive Mac is. Really they are a sizable amount more but it really is superior. The Mac pro which is there version of a traditional pc tower can kill any pc. Fully maxed out and upgraded is like $30,000. Also programs like fruity loops are for ammeters a getting into the game. Since all the pros use mac there is a program or extension for anything you want. Just have to google search and you will find it. Usually free as well. The small things that Mac has like exposé will make the difference within a few days of use. Makes things so much easier and faster. No worry about having to get big bloated virus protection programs or having to defrag will also save countless hours. Finally like you said everyone else uses it so if you get a file from someone chances are it will be for a Mac program.

As a bonus it has bootcamp which you can install a full working copy of windows if you want and boot right into that. It will be a full windows machine plus Mac. How can you argue with that.

 

[NissanSkylineN1]

The Mac pro which is there version of a traditional pc tower can kill any pc. Fully maxed out and upgraded is like $30,000. Also programs like fruity loops are for ammeters a getting into the game.

Please refrain from posting.

Deadmau5 uses FL, so does Spor/ Feed Me. Many others use FL too.

All DAWs do the same damn thing. The only difference is the GUI.

As with Mac vs PC for your situation, I would go with PC. There are more upgrade options, more VSTs and DAWs available, and there's more support for it.

As for your $30K Mac Pro VS PC, if you spent $30K on a PC, it would beat 2 Mac Pros combined.

 

[tlowr4]

My opinion: Mac.

Having been a Mac person for some 3 years, I regret not having chosen it earlier. The interface is much easier to use, and music production (a strong interest of mine) through the exclusive programs is a breeze.

When it comes to creating music, you don't want to run any risks. Relate back to Pako's post. Mac computers, in general, are the most stable among pre-built systems. Raging at a PC because Windows wants to know if you'd like to try their latest update, in the middle of a song, isn't ideal.

In addition to this, through BootCamp, or ParallelsDesktop, you can run any Windows OS back to ME, on a single Mac machine. So yeah, for me, it's Mac all the way.

 

[Finduszip]

The Mac pro which is there version of a traditional pc tower can kill any pc. Fully maxed out and upgraded is like $30,000. .

You are kidding now, right? "Can kill any pc"? I'm sorry, but have you ever checked out Origin? Or Eurocom? Or Komplett? Or any custom built computers. And for that money you can get like 10 of Komplett's Gamer i35 with i7-3770 and 7850 Crossfire. God, this post almost hurt my brain

 

[sesselpupser]

Between this and the iMac thread it appears you've searched for 'mac' and then resurrected old threads just to slate Apple products. Fair enough if you had something useful to add... Also Pros are pretty competitively priced to alternative Xeon workstations and aren't simply the same hardware in a different case. When you get into workstation money personal preference has precisely nothing to do with the purchase decision, it's a tool and you buy the tool for the job just like any other.

 

[Alex.]

I've used both and am currently doing a degree in audio production. I prefer Mac. I can't explain why because I don't actually know, but that's the way it is.

 

[NissanSkylineN1]

I honestly think that this is really a Logic Pro vs Windows DAW thread, since that's the only reason why I see someone would buy a Mac for that cause.