My gripe with GT5, is it me? (never the same line twice)

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Lambob

Lambob

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NobleAtreides
I wish to first thank PD and all involved in making this a remarkable driving game,

Having played GT5 now, I have reached A-20, B-3 , and played online, completed many tests on Silver and Gold, earned close to a million CR, with a maxed out Lambo Murc, and some other prize cars in the garage,
Using Logitech G25 wheel, Simulation.

My main Gripe with the game: again , it could be just me,

I feel as though no two (same) turns are ever executed the same, in fact, they feel almost over-dynamic, as if so many variables are constantly changing the gameplay in real-time.

I feel either the turn is way to early, and I smash into a rail, Or the turn is way to late, and I miss the Apex, or just the effective line is lost in oversteer.

Rarely does the driving line fall inbetween.

With 20 years of actual driving XP and motorcycling, When I drive my real sedan car, or a more sportier Honda Prelude, I can negotiate turns, with confidence, and a certain know-how. I feel the translation of this confidence is completely lacking in GT5.

Again, it could be due to my complete lack of Track driving experience, but I just have this unsettling gripe in this game. Example, License Test IC where you have to negotiate the Tokyo blind corners in 14s. After close to 100 restarts, I would say each turn I negotiate, is either way to early, or way too late, offering little "tolerance" to get it right...

I tied different approaches, speeds, lines, of course, at 80 km.hr, I can do everything right in the game, but we all want to get that gold, or silver enought times.

Am I just old?
 
I definitely noticed some inconsistencies while struggling through the Formula GT races...Damn near impossible for me to get into a regular rhythm. It could have been because I was using the DS3, and the handheld controllers are getting less competitive with each GT release...
 
No depth perception or sense of spacial awareness. You have a flat image of what's in front of you which makes it very difficult to judge your position in space, braking points and accurately target the apex.

I can drive faster in game than real life because in real life I don't want to hit (another) lamp post but I can more accurately place a car in real life at any speed because of my depth perception, awareness of surroundings and tactile feel of the cars grip/slip.
 
Like you said, it's likely your lack of track driving experience.

When on a track driving at near 100% or the car's capability, the smallest change of input from the driver can cascade down in to lots of changes on course. Missing your braking zone by 5' can make you blow an apex. Missing an apex by 6" can put you 2 off or in to the wall.

i haven't noticed inconsistencies on the track aside from those related to surface changes, tire temps/wear and weather. All other inconsistencies can be traced to my inputs. When I botch a corner, I know immediately why.
 
TouringBubble
Like you said, it's likely your lack of track driving experience.

When on a track driving at near 100% or the car's capability, the smallest change of input from the driver can cascade down in to lots of changes on course. Missing your braking zone by 5' can make you blow an apex. Missing an apex by 6" can put you 2 off or in to the wall.

i haven't noticed inconsistencies on the track aside from those related to surface changes, tire temps/wear and weather. All other inconsistencies can be traced to my inputs. When I botch a corner, I know immediately why.
Click to expand...

This is true, basically, road driving requires much less precision than circuit driving.
 
thanks for your input fellas,

question about Driving Aid (line), I tend to want to hit he brakes, (even if gently) a little later, than the initial "recommended" red line, should I change my driving habit, and brake earlier? I don't give myself enough time or thought to "change why I botched it last time, due to my inputs:, I am a gamer that likes to just "wing it" and go with the flow, although, use common sense throughout, and maintain a higher level of APM (actions per minute) to help me score well in various games that I like to play, whether casual, RTS, or Driving Simulator.

In your experience, a driver that places well on the leaderboard, are they aggressive drivers with luck on their side? or do most leaderboard holders drive with a calmer approach, to better negotiate all turns, even if a little slower, than to be dangerous?

I feel as if the Challenge tests, to score gold, require us to be completely Reckless drivers.
 
the driving line factors many things such as the speed you are going, it is never the same. It is a matter of proper braking, the line always follows the same path but braking points always differ. Also the less reckless of a driver you are the better chances you have of getting gold. If you go wide from the line it is very likely you will lose the time needed.
 
Lose the driving line altogether. Instead focus on specific braking points for each corner. Obviously this is different per car because of velocity.
 
First off, the fastest drivers aren't using the visual driving line. My suggestion is to get the "idea" of the proper line though a corner with the visual aid if needed, then turn it off and try your own thing. You will learn to be a much better driver that way.

The braking markers on the visual line do change with your speed, but aren't always (rarely ever) the ideal braking point. When you start to factor in trail braking and different drivetrain layouts it will change. The line is a suggestions, just like the gear indicator that flashes at you.
 
I'd advise to turn off the driving line, and if you're unfamiliar with some tracks go into practice mode and run them with a car you're comfortable with until you can memorize them. Also, if you use the HUD, don't pay attention to the red indicator that is supposed to tell you what gear you're supposed to be in in a corner, because in my experience it is usually wrong. I have the HUD turned all the way off, and I feel I can see the road better, and be faster.

I actually feel the opposite of you. This is the easiest GT game to have consistent laps, in my opinion. I use a wheel which is part of the reason (I've used a wheel in all GT games since GT3, couldn't find any wheels for the original PS) but I've found the more realistic physics to actually help me be more consistent.

Do you use a wheel or controller?
 
True enough, I am way past the requirement of training wheels, From now on, the driving line stays off. I think that was a large enough factor for impeding things I should be doing, like using my own judgement, and taking it from there.

PM's can close this thread or move it elsewhere accordingly, many thanks, and happy driving all!

and yes, I use G25 wheel , manual paddle shifting.
 
My advice : Dont use the frigging driving line, turn it off, learn the track, take point of reference around the track, you'll be amazed at how you can improve yourself. The driving line will just make you follow it and not learn anything.
 
I think, I was trying to battle my judgement, vs driving line, and ended up losing terribly. Eyes off the road at high speed, even if a blink, does result in major , and unfortunate changes from (lack of) proper input.

Perhaps I tried to ignore the line, and just let it distract from what I was doing.
 
Turn Driving Line off and learn your own lines. As the handling varies from car to car sometimes it's much faster to take a different line than the one recommended.
 
I completely agree with you about the apparent inconsistency. I found the root of my problem was with the tires. I was a late braker and was going 100% on the pedal for a long time before turns. For most turns this cooks the tires and leaves no rubber left for turning. I've since changed my technique so I brake 100% for a very short time and trail off the brakes. You use this technique on the road in real life without thinking about it. Pay attention the next time you brake for a highway exit. In the game, this makes you more consistent with hitting the apex and you have plenty of rubber left to exit at full throttle. Look up "trail braking" on Google if you haven't already. In addition to saving your tires on entry, it keeps the weight of the car forward during the turn which gives your front tires more grip.

As for the driving aids...

With the driving line on, your eye always watches it. It is training wheels for knowing when to brake after long straights and can help you find your way around a new course, but the brake points aren't accurate and it will never tell you when to stop braking or get on the gas.

Once you know a track, turn it off and pay attention to the shift indicator. it will turn red when you are at the limit for a turn and it will flash red when you need to slow down. Occasionally it is wrong but if you start on a track using this training method you'll start learning places where you don't have to use it. For example, for a turn you may make a mental note to wait till it flashes 3 times before hitting the brakes.

When using both methods, pay attention to track markers. There are usually signs leading up to a tight turn. Note where the driving line tells you to brake. Note where the shift indicator tells you to brake. Push the car a little further into the turn each time and eventually you'll start watching the signs and markers instead of the shift indicator. At which point you can turn off the HUD and drive with your ears and eyes :)
 
Trail braking, on highway exits, thanks!

I'm a buttinski when it comes to exits, I have no patience to wait in back of the line 1.5 km back, when I can safely merge in front of a noob far out front. I know police penalize this behavior, but it is still safer for me and everyone else, than slamming on the brakes to get behind an even more so braking lineup as so many incompetent drivers do.

OT, Driving line, off.
 
Following the driving line is never a good idea, turn it off and pick your own line. This way your lines will reflect your entry speeds, rather than trying to match your speed to a pre-determined line.
 
Cool you're bringing this up, I definately noticed that too. It especially gets obvious when you compare it to GT3's handling. In my opinion, GT3 had the most PERFECT handling feel in any racing game. I remember, when I could feel and see how I'm shaving off these thousands of a second per lap, with GT5, this is impossible.
 
Lambob
Trail braking, on highway exits, thanks!

I'm a buttinski when it comes to exits, I have no patience to wait in back of the line 1.5 km back, when I can safely merge in front of a noob far out front. I know police penalize this behavior, but it is still safer for me and everyone else, than slamming on the brakes to get behind an even more so braking lineup as so many incompetent drivers do.

OT, Driving line, off.
Click to expand...
I do the same. One of the exits I take every day backs up. I stay in the middle lane and look for the poor schmuck who isn't tailgating. I slip in at the last second. But yeah trail braking. Basically push the pedal hard to start then let off to 30% or less until you get the car down to a safe speed to hit the apex. This video has some good trail braking. Just watch the red brake bar to see how the driver uses full brake in a straight line and releases the pedal to about 20-30% while turning in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpP1rsfMa-A
 
I actually do notice this. I can do fairly consistent time in most other driving games(rFactor, GTR2, even the sideway happy GT Legend), but for one reason or another mistake tend to be more common in GT4 and GT5....the cars always seem more nervous than what I'd expect them to be.....It really doesn't really matter until you run the endurance races...
 

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