My impressions of today's test drives....

[95GTIVR6]

I have recently seen many used speed6's in my area suprisingly; can't get a new one. Speed3's will be done after this current 2008.5 model year and CAN be picked up under 23K althought im sure you would want the GT model.

You should test drive the new Accord Coupe.

 

[McLaren]

"The first time" being the key phrase here.

Personally, I wouldn't take anything to track days that I couldn't afford to replace for cash.

Good point....

I have recently seen many used speed6's in my area suprisingly; can't get a new one. Speed3's will be done after this current 2008.5 model year and CAN be picked up under 23K althought im sure you would want the GT model.

You should test drive the new Accord Coupe.

I've actually been meaning to drive the new Accord Coupe. But, I won't be buying 1 from any of the nearby dealers. They want to charge $250 for options that come standard from the factory.

 

[Joey D]

"The first time" being the key phrase here.

Personally, I wouldn't take anything to track days that I couldn't afford to replace for cash.

QFT. This is the exact reason why my car won't be seeing a track. There are so many things that could go wrong that it's better not to chance it.

 

[McLaren]

There are, but that's why you take a class. Track Days do usually go without any accident.

 

[backspace]

Joey and Duke are completely right.
I'm willing to bet whatever agreements you sign on the dealer lease imply that your not to use the vehicle for "offroad" purposes

And on another note, it sounds like your not looking for a track car- your looking for something sporty to have fun with once in awhile. Theres a huge difference.

Who the hell said I was solely considering a new car? Did you just skim through my first post? Probably, since I said I had already looked at a used RSX or TL, both which would be bought.

By new, I meant anything younger then 5 years old. Everything on your list is fairly new. I guess owning a 20 year old car has skewed my perception of "new"

That's your opinion, which doesn't mean anything to me. This is going to be my car, not your's.

FWD layouts and 4 doors aren't opinions.

Perhaps to also drive it around just for the hell of it? If I have a new car, I highly intend for it to be manual.

Perhaps your mistaken then. A track car is not usually something you drive around on the street if your serious about racing. A car that spends most of it's life on the street and sees a track once in awhile is not a track car.

What does this have to do with anything? Or is it just a cheap insult?

Didn't mean it as an insult, but I can't see any other reason in this situation, to lease a vehicle you can't afford, for recreational racing purposes unless your trying to show off.

Then GTFO.

At this point, I don't want or need your suggestion, esp. since that you're condoning that FWD are not proper-layouts.

I'll admit I was wrong and take my statement back. FWD layouts can make a perfectly good racing platform.

However, all the overweight, expensive, 4 door cars your looking at would be an absolute joke on a racetrack, compared to the next guys sub $7000 prepared track car with sticky tires.

So if this thread is "full of fail", even though I merely gave my impressions of a few cars were 1 could potentially be my next car to track, does not mean they will, or that it'll be a lease.

You talked about leasing every car you mentioned.


If you are looking at a true track car, why not buy something cheap your not afraid of trashing, gut everything unnecessary, put on sticky tires and have fun? Bottom line is that leasing a relatively new, expensive vehicle to use as a track car is not a smart idea, from any perspective.

 

[Joey D]

There are, but that's why you take a class. Track Days do usually go without any accident.

You seriously think a driving school is going to make it problem free? A class does not make you a perfect driver. Re-read what Duke said. I honestly can't say it any better or clearer then he can.

Buying a newer car or even leasing it is a really poor financial move if you are planning to track a car unless you have so much money you have no idea what to do with it.

 

[RecklesAbandon2]

There are, but that's why you take a class. Track Days do usually go without any accident.

Even if you drive perfectly, someone else can still hit you, you can never fully defend yourself against idiots, especially on a racetrack.

 

[McLaren]

Joey and Duke are completely right.
I'm willing to bet whatever agreements you sign on the dealer lease imply that your not to use the vehicle for "offroad" purposes

I've had 3 leases. I think I know very well what you're allowed to do & not to do with a lease.

By new, I meant anything younger then 5 years old. Everything on your list is fairly new. I guess owning a 20 year old car has skewed my perception of "new"

That's hardly new....

FWD layouts and 4 doors aren't opinions.

A boring sedan is an opinion.

Perhaps your mistaken then. A track car is not usually something you drive around on the street if your serious about racing. A car that spends most of it's life on the street and sees a track once in awhile is not a track car.

You def. seems more directed towards a race car. Unless of course, all these guys who daily drive their Porsche GT3s and still track them are not considered track cars. I'm going to be doing the exact same thing they do with their cars. Track as much as possible and when available, and still use the car when we can't track so we're not wasting our money.

Didn't mean it as an insult, but I can't see any other reason in this situation, to lease a vehicle you can't afford, for recreational racing purposes unless your trying to show off.

Yep. You caught me. I'm trying to show off a little Subaru or Ford to men who own multiple Ferraris. You got me.

However, all the overweight, expensive, 4 door cars your looking at would be an absolute joke on a racetrack, compared to the next guys sub $7000 prepared track car with sticky tires.

You don't really have a clue about the folks who track at the course I plan on going to, do you? Not everyone there is tracking a junker. We have guys there tracking everything from a Mazda 3 or stock 70's Corvette to a Carrera GT. So, why would my car become a joke? I don't have to hold the same idea of what is ideal.

You talked about leasing every car you mentioned.

No, I did not. I was not talking about leasing either of the Acuras.

If you are looking at a true track car, why not buy something cheap your not afraid of trashing, gut everything unnecessary, put on sticky tires and have fun? Bottom line is that leasing a relatively new, expensive vehicle to use as a track car is not a smart idea, from any perspective.

And who says I'm not afraid of doing the above?

I think you also need to realize I'm NOT automatically choosing one of the cars I looked at. Nothing is set in stone yet. There just happen to be deals that are worth looking at twice.

You seriously think a driving school is going to make it problem free? A class does not make you a perfect driver. Re-read what Duke said. I honestly can't say it any better or clearer then he can.

Did I say that? No, I didn't. But the fact remains it DOES help reduce it. I learned a lot through Apex, and it shows. MotorSport Ranch has never had an accident on their course in the years they've been open. They take everything seriously with 2 strict passing only points, and more.

Even if you drive perfectly, someone else can still hit you, you can never fully defend yourself against idiots, especially on a racetrack.

Where I plan to go, does not let idiots in. Idiots are removed and shunned because 1 idiot results in everyone being removed from the track. We had 1 do that during a parade lap this year, and we all had to leave the track.

I realize the danger, however, I'm saying that through the years the course has been open and the school that teaches you, your chances are reduced considerably. And no one wants to do anything stupid because doing so gets you removed the track immediately.

 

[backspace]

That's hardly new....

If your care about your image it certainly isn't. Good point, gotta always have lease the latest and greatest

On a track, who cares if your car is a current year model or 60 years old? Fast is fast.

I can understand wanting a new car for luxury and whatnot during the day to day grind, but aren't you currently leasing at least one other car for that?

You def. seems more directed towards a race car. Unless of course, all these guys who daily drive their Porsche GT3s and still track them are not considered track cars. I'm going to be doing the exact same thing they do with their cars. Track as much as possible and when available, and still use the car when we can't track so we're not wasting our money.

I did say real track cars usually aren't daily driven. Of course their are exceptions, but don't start comparing a Porsche GT3 to a leased Ford Fusion (or the like) with the sport package

You don't really have a clue about the folks who track at the course I plan on going to, do you? Not everyone there is tracking a junker. We have guys there tracking everything from a Mazda 3 or stock 70's Corvette to a Carrera GT. So, why would my car become a joke? I don't have to hold the same idea of what is ideal.

Since when is a $7000 track toy a junker?

Thank you for reinforcing my point. You seem too proud to show up at a track with something thats "old"


I understand you haven't made up your mind yet..and it's not set in stone that you will end up with a leased vehicle..but if you do, what are you going to do about wear items? Are you going to go to the track with stock brake pads and all season tires?

 

[McLaren]

If your care about your image it certainly isn't. Good point, gotta always have lease the latest and greatest.

What on earth does someone's image have anything to do with this? So I choose to lease a new car. What business is it of your's to suddenly say I'm care too much about my image? You don't know me, so don't try to.

On a track, who cares if your car is a current year model or 60 years old? Fast is fast.

If no one cares, then why do you keep giving a rat's about me deciding whether or not to have a new car?

I did say real track cars usually aren't daily driven. Of course their are exceptions, but don't start comparing a Porsche GT3 to a leased Ford Fusion (or the like) with the sport package

Real track cars are usually just below your average race car. I classify those as your own race car, not just a nice track car. A nice track car is one I see that can be driven to the track, and driven every few weekends. You, though, have this idea that it has to see 90% of the track, and no road use to be a track car. Most folks don't do this.

Thank you for reinforcing my point. You seem too proud to show up at a track with something thats "old".

Oh yeah, I'm too proud. Stop acting like you suddenly know every car I've looked at. You don't. Before last weekend, I had been looking at any little sporty car from 1990s.

I understand you haven't made up your mind yet..and it's not set in stone that you will end up with a leased vehicle..but if you do, what are you going to do about wear items? Are you going to go to the track with stock brake pads and all season tires?

You don't understand a damn thing, and don't act like you do. I merely drove these 5 cars last weekend because I needed to get away from looking at used BMWs because I'd start contacting the sellers of anything that seemed reasonable.

And now, you're pulling in this garbage that I won't look at anything old. Well, FYI bud, I've been looking at old cars since I started looking for a nice weekend, track car since October. This is the first time I looked at new cars, so you really need to hush up, and stop this nonsense that I'm only set on tracking a leased car. I merely gave my impressions of a few cars, that some might be worthwhile, and nothing more.
Normally, I would apologize for such an outburst, but I'm not going to this time. All you're doing is interrogating me for something that isn't even set in stone, automatically assuming I care more about my image than the car, without knowing 1 thing about my search.

Don't tell me what to look at, don't tell me what to expect, and do not tell me what car is best. As I said, I've been searching since Oct. 2007, and I've already taken a class on the track, and I plan to do it again with this car. The car I choose is the car I like. I don't need a BMW E30 M3 to go out and have fun at a track. And if you don't like it, then do not reply.

 

[YSSMAN]

I've actually been meaning to drive the new Accord Coupe. But, I won't be buying 1 from any of the nearby dealers. They want to charge $250 for options that come standard from the factory.

Odd, my local Honda dealer does the same thing. Not to mention how they magically charge me more per month with more money down on a Honda Fit Sport that is $2000 cheaper than a Mazda 3.

Meh.

Still, the Honda Accord coupe is a very nice car. I'm a bit more impartial to the previous coupe, feels a bit more "natural" than this current one, and the HPV add-ons made them look great.

====

And if we're still considering the "cheap" and otherwise used alternatives:

- Mazda Miata (probably obvious already)
- Dodge Neon R/T or ACR
- Ford Focus SVT (or later ST model, if you have to...)
- Saturn Ion Red Line (I'm not kidding, they're incredibly cheap)
- "origional" BMW MINI Cooper (?)

...And the total D-bag award, but still being totally bad-ass???

- Toyota Prius

No. I'm not kidding. I hear that people love to mod them now...

 

[MustangSVT]

Odd, my local Honda dealer does the same thing. Not to mention how they magically charge me more per month with more money down on a Honda Fit Sport that is $2000 cheaper than a Mazda 3.

Meh.

Still, the Honda Accord coupe is a very nice car. I'm a bit more impartial to the previous coupe, feels a bit more "natural" than this current one, and the HPV add-ons made them look great.

====

And if we're still considering the "cheap" and otherwise used alternatives:

- Mazda Miata (probably obvious already)
- Dodge Neon R/T or ACR
- Ford Focus SVT (or later ST model, if you have to...)
- Saturn Ion Red Line (I'm not kidding, they're incredibly cheap)
- "origional" BMW MINI Cooper (?)

...And the total D-bag award, but still being totally bad-ass???

- Toyota Prius

No. I'm not kidding. I hear that people love to mod them now...

I can't understand how you could recommend the Neon or Saturn ION or Prius to anyone. I'd rather be shot before being seen in one of these pieces of cr@p.

 

[backspace]

Ok, the only reason I got attracted to this car was due to the dealer offering $139/month on lease deals on nearly any model. It seemed to good.

...

I nearly have this car scratched off due to the lease payments

...

because it may be a lease.

...

It was $3,000 down and $300 a month for 36 months.

...

Now, it's $3,000 down for $302-$306/month and more crap. At most, I'll be seeing what other Ford dealers offer.

...

The payments though, are asking for 6 years at a potential rate of $450-$550 a month.

...

We didn't talk payments with this car, but it's definitely going to be looked at again, or maybe even it's Type-S sibling.

...

And while this would be a lease

...

The avg. lease deal on a WRX (according to the KBB) is around $476/month. With $3,200 down for 41 months

...

I managed to talk them down to $339, which came down from $454 a month.

lol.

Sorry man. I was way off base thinking you were considering a lease.

Good luck finding a suitable track car. Hopefully the dealer can find a toolbox bigger then yourself to service the car.

 

[RecklesAbandon2]

well he seems confident that his chances of any accidents are slim to none, so let him do what he wants to do. It's his to gain or lose, it won't affect any of the rest of us.
Take it for what it is, an opinion on different cars he drives, and what he's looking for.

I can't understand how you could recommend the Neon or Saturn ION or Prius to anyone. I'd rather be shot before being seen in one of these pieces of cr@p

So a 205hp - identical in performance with Cobalt SS, Saturn ION is a peice of crap, eh? That sucks, cause they run with RSX's, Honda Type R's (FF), SRT-4's, and all the premium FWD compacts of 2000+ era.

 

[YSSMAN]

I can't understand how you could recommend the Neon or Saturn ION or Prius to anyone. I'd rather be shot before being seen in one of these pieces of cr@p.

Its quite easily actually:

- The Neon is a classic track-racer that is "affordable" and easy to work on. The ACR model was designed specifically for it.
- The Saturn Ion Red Line (as I recall) was actually more capable than the Cobalt SS, and even better, it was cheaper too. Best of all? They don't hold their resale values, so you could pick up a used on for DIRT CHEAP.


...And the Prius?

Its something "unique." Different. Oddly, capable too (with proper modification)...

Prius GT anyone?

 

[Joey D]

Did I say that? No, I didn't. But the fact remains it DOES help reduce it. I learned a lot through Apex, and it shows. MotorSport Ranch has never had an accident on their course in the years they've been open. They take everything seriously with 2 strict passing only points, and more.

You made it sound like if you take a class you would go with out incident. Tracking a car is hard on it and things will wear out faster. Things can happen that is beyond your control. Something in the suspension breaks, brakes fail, engine blow, transmission fails, etc. It not just accidents that cause your vehicle to be written off on a track. If you lease a car which is something you seem to be talking about doing and ruin the transmission then what are you going to do?

I'll still support Duke and say never track something that you can not replace with cash.

The only racing you could probably get away with on a lease car is autocross and even then that is not without risk.

 

[McLaren]

Odd, my local Honda dealer does the same thing. Not to mention how they magically charge me more per month with more money down on a Honda Fit Sport that is $2000 cheaper than a Mazda 3.

Meh.

Still, the Honda Accord coupe is a very nice car. I'm a bit more impartial to the previous coupe, feels a bit more "natural" than this current one, and the HPV add-ons made them look great.

====

And if we're still considering the "cheap" and otherwise used alternatives:

- Mazda Miata (probably obvious already)
- Dodge Neon R/T or ACR
- Ford Focus SVT (or later ST model, if you have to...)
- Saturn Ion Red Line (I'm not kidding, they're incredibly cheap)
- "origional" BMW MINI Cooper (?)

I'll look at a Miata this weekend, but I'd love to find a SVT Focus now. They're incredibly hard to find out there. Saturns...out of the question. I looked at buying an Astra until the dealership told me they put a $700 Lo-Jack on every car. But the Miata is seriously worth looking at. We had 16 at the Concorso, all older models, but prepped out and loud as can be. The only hurting factor is convertibles aren't very easy to negotiate in the spring/summer time.

As for a Mini Cooper, possibly. I've thought about looking at a base model like Joey's, but I'm pretty sure I'll find the BMW negotiating that I've found before.

BTW, does your Honda dealer charge outrageous premiums for new cars, as well?

...And the total D-bag award, but still being totally bad-ass???

- Toyota Prius

No. I'm not kidding. I hear that people love to mod them now...

Do they even offer these on Toyota lots anymore? Or are there still 3,000 people wanting pay over MSRP for one?

well he seems confident that his chances of any accidents are slim to none, so let him do what he wants to do. It's his to gain or lose, it won't affect any of the rest of us.
Take it for what it is, an opinion on different cars he drives, and what he's looking for.

That's exactly this thread was meant to be until this guy came in and started to claim I was going to be tracking a lease car asap. He's nothing more than uninformed, assumption-making, ass. But then again, he normally has nothing worth reading anyways.

You made it sound like if you take a class you would go with out incident. Tracking a car is hard on it and things will wear out faster. Things can happen that is beyond your control.

If I did, I apologize. I do know things can happen. I learned a lot of this during the class.

Something in the suspension breaks, brakes fail, engine blow, transmission fails, etc. It not just accidents that cause your vehicle to be written off on a track. If you lease a car which is something you seem to be talking about doing and ruin the transmission then what are you going to do?

Which is why you go through a long inspection, from 45-60 minutes. I'm not saying this means nothing will happen, but like I said, they take their no-accident record very seriously.

I'll still support Duke and say never track something that you can not replace with cash.

The only racing you could probably get away with on a lease car is autocross and even then that is not without risk.

I know this, too. Trust me, they talked all about this during the class. They explained everything, and of course, there was the well-known waver.

I know exactly what you're talking about. It's exactly why I didn't sign the Subaru papers. As I told them, I still have to consider insurance, payments, and so much more.

 

[YSSMAN]

BTW, does your Honda dealer charge outrageous premiums for new cars, as well?

Both used and new. They have a 2002 EP Si on the lot that I was looking at a few months ago, at least $3000 over what its actually worth on the window. They haven't sold it yet, not surprisingly.

I'm not sure if its the fact that its a Honda dealer or the fact that it used to be a part of the Duthler group.

...Remember my fight at the Ford dealer on the over-priced Miata? Same dealer network...