My son's Geo, My Ford truck have the same thing in common

[Gil]

My wife can't seem to get either of them to start.
Both are manual-tranny equipped.
She is a good driver and can handle a manual tranny with the best of them.
But we took the Geo in to the Chevy dealer to have it checked out because it won't start for her. The Chevy guy says he can't find a problem with it. And it has never failed to start for me or my son.

The other day she "threatened" to take my new (to me) Ranger, as I needed to do some stuff to her Camry, and I took the guys to school in the van.
When I come back from the school my "Tonka" truck is sitting in the garage and my wife is screaming that it won't start.
I got in and turned the key, and of course "Tonka" started right up for me.
Her response: "How'd you do that!!??
She ended up taking the van (which was also now warm inside) for fear that she wouldn't be able to start the truck later.

It's my opinion that her issue is that she isn't fully depressing the clutch before turning the key. Anyone else got any theories? (other than "the vehicles don't like her".)

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

After you started the the "tonka" for her did you have her get back in and try it? Could be the pedal depression like you said since there is a sylenoid that activates right when you push the pedal down.
Has the weather been fluctuating lately wher you live? Hot to cold? If it has then its a good possibility its the fuel pump or water in the line from condensation. Condensation happens a lot when people allow their gas tank to get low all the time in the winter.

 

[skip0110]

Make sure the floor mats/carpeting is not getting piled up under the clutch pedal. (she might not be depressing it as hard as you, as camaroboy said)

Does it just refuse to start, or does it "click"? The low-current line to the starter (that gives power to the high-current motor) may be corroding. This happened to me, so the starter would engage only 80% of the time--eventually, just before I sold the car, I would have to turn the ket to start maybe 5, 10 times before the starter would engage.

 

[Gil]

The weather here in Kansas has gone from cool to cold with snow.
However, My truck "sleeps" indoors. Tonka hasn't spent a night outside since the day I brought it home. (nearly three months ago)
I also never let the tank get much below the half mark. I'm too paranoid about running out of gas.

She didn't get back in and try it. She was already late and the van was already warmed up and out of the garage...

I honestly think that she'll leave the truck alone for a while. I may have to expressly take her out to the truck and have her try it again.

Funny thing is that this isn't the first batch of manual tranny cars we've had around here.
She used to "nick" my Escort GT regularly on my days off, as the air and the radio worked better than the Plymouth she was driving at the time.
It was the first of our cars to have the safety switch in it that prohibitied starting unless the clutch was down. Her only problem with it was getting the key out of the ignition.
The other cars we had were too old to have had that feature. ('78 VW microbus, '82 Nissan Sentra)

 

[Ev0]

Out of curiosity, how do you start a car with a manual transmission? I live in an automatic infested world, so I never learned. Probably the last time I was in a car with a manual was probably about 5 years ago...

 

[Gil]

Out of curiosity, how do you start a car with a manual transmission? I live in an automatic infested world, so I never learned. Probably the last time I was in a car with a manual was probably about 5 years ago...

In all newer cars with manuals, you must push the clutch to the floor to start.
If you don't nothing happens.
This keeps the car from bucking, and lunging if the starter motor is engaged while the car is in gear.

 

[Gil]

Make sure the floor mats/carpeting is not getting piled up under the clutch pedal. (she might not be depressing it as hard as you, as camaroboy said)

Does it just refuse to start, or does it "click"? The low-current line to the starter (that gives power to the high-current motor) may be corroding. This happened to me, so the starter would engage only 80% of the time--eventually, just before I sold the car, I would have to turn the ket to start maybe 5, 10 times before the starter would engage.

Now it is possible that my floor mats prevented the clutch from going all the way to the floor.
Since she is eight inches shorter than me, moving the seat forward may indeed have scrunched up the mat under the pedals.

Now, the Geo only has carpeting, no mats. But the dead pedal is pretty close to the clutch, she may have hit the dead pedal with the outside of her left foot and not pressed the clutch to the floor. It doesn't have near the pedal travel the Ford does. She may have felt the dead pedal and thought she had her foot on the floor...

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

It was the first of our cars to have the safety switch in it that prohibitied starting unless the clutch was down

A lot of old cars have them too. My 69 Camaro has one because I redesigned it after I installed the 2002 6 speed tranny and Hydrolic 2002 clutch assembly. The hydrolic clutch assembly was out of a 2002 Trans am. Yes fully hydrolic including the fluid too. No more old school metal brackets in my car for the clutch assembly.

 

[Gil]

A lot of old cars have them too. My 69 Camaro has one because I redesigned it after I installed the 2002 6 speed tranny and Hydrolic 2002 clutch assembly. The hydrolic clutch assembly was out of a 2002 Trans am. Yes fully hydrolic including the fluid too. No more old school metal brackets in my car for the clutch assembly.

Now you've got me curious, what's in fromt of all that modern hardware?
327, 350, 396, 427, 454... or is it a stroker 383 or 400?

edit:
I guess if I had read your sig line in the first place, I wouldn't have had to ask

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

Now you've got me curious, what's in fromt of all that modern hardware?
327, 350, 396, 427, 454... or is it a stroker 383 or 400?

Answer in my sig. 383 stroker. Only about 400-425hp. Eventually I will probably install an LS1 setup. Just takes time and money. The interior is all upgraded to modern too as you can see in the sig avatar and on my websites.
Sorry to hyjack the thread with this post but the carpet and floormat idea that was mentioned above is the reason I redesigned my pedal setup. Now mine engages when the pedal is 3/4 of the way to the floor instead of all the way.
So far there hasnt been anything with a car or truck or vehicle I cant figure out if the car is in front of me.

 

[Gil]

The reason I keep the mats, is that the carpet is light grey. The place I work has "tree scum" all over the parking lot and I don't want to be grinding that into my carpets. I can just rinse the mats, or if they are really bad, hit them with the brush.
But this little truck has been babied quite a bit. It still looks pretty good for an '96 model. And my plan is to keep it sharp.
In fact, my rear bumper is starting to rust on one corner, and I'm trying to decide whether to pull the bumper, and go with a roll pan, or to have the bumper sanded down and repainted. The body shop I use is pretty reasonable, and I don't think that there would be that much difference in the price.
I think that if I go for the 2"-4" drop I'll likely go with the roll pan.

 

[BMW POWER]

In all newer cars with manuals, you must push the clutch to the floor to start.

Really? it must be an American thing I've been driving for a good 17 or 18 years and driven more cars than I can remember but i never recall having to push the clutch down to start a car. Maybe we do get some cars like that here in the UK though and I just havent encountered one yet

 

[Gil]

You may just be conditioned to push in the clutch when your start the car, and haven't even noticed. Even before the "safety switch" I rarely, if ever tried to start a car with a manual trans, w/o pushing in the clutch, or checking to see if the vehicle is in gear. Since British and most other Europeans tend to have to deal with more "BS" to get lisenced to drive, I'm sure that pushing in the clutch to start must be ingrained into muscle memory from the get-go.
But on this side of the pond, since the Audi fiasco in the early 1980's with "unintended acceleration," the auto manufacturers have added all sorts of little safety devices to their cars. GM came up with the clutch pedal switch. One of my Navy buddies had an early Pontiac Sunbird that was so equipped.
Plus, newer cars with auto trannies cannot be shifted out of "Park" without the brake pedal being depressed.
And a lot of cars have doors that lock automatically once the car is moving above 8 mph. This to keep out the car-jackers, and to lessen the chance of passengers being thrown from the vehicle in an accident.

 

[daan]

Really? it must be an American thing I've been driving for a good 17 or 18 years and driven more cars than I can remember but i never recall having to push the clutch down to start a car. Maybe we do get some cars like that here in the UK though and I just havent encountered one yet

I was just going to say the same thing.

Although I always start my engine with my foot on the clutch. I was told it helps prevent wear on the clutch/grearbox.

 

[skip0110]

But this little truck has been babied quite a bit. It still looks pretty good for an '96 model. And my plan is to keep it sharp.
In fact, my rear bumper is starting to rust on one corner, and I'm trying to decide whether to pull the bumper, and go with a roll pan, or to have the bumper sanded down and repainted. The body shop I use is pretty reasonable, and I don't think that there would be that much difference in the price.
I think that if I go for the 2"-4" drop I'll likely go with the roll pan.

Go with the roll pan and the drop, then find a Thunderbird Turbo Coupe/SVO engine to put in there I think you said your truck is a four-cylinder, so you already have the right engine mounts.

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

The reason I keep the mats, is that the carpet is light grey. The place I work has "tree scum" all over the parking lot and I don't want to be grinding that into my carpets. I can just rinse the mats, or if they are really bad, hit them with the brush.
But this little truck has been babied quite a bit. It still looks pretty good for an '96 model. And my plan is to keep it sharp.
In fact, my rear bumper is starting to rust on one corner, and I'm trying to decide whether to pull the bumper, and go with a roll pan, or to have the bumper sanded down and repainted. The body shop I use is pretty reasonable, and I don't think that there would be that much difference in the price.
I think that if I go for the 2"-4" drop I'll likely go with the roll pan.

When I installed my matts was when I discoverd my clutch issue as well since I lifed the floor about 1/2 inch for ground clearance. Most floor matts look ugly but its brand new carpet so I didnt want mine dirty so I had to improvise.
Roll pan would probably cost you more money since they need to use different brackets for it to match the rear of the body. Having the bumper repainted should be very cheap. With the 2-4" drop the roll pan would be the way to go. Do you have pics of your truck?

 

[Gil]

Go with the roll pan and the drop, then find a Thunderbird Turbo Coupe/SVO engine to put in there I think you said your truck is a four-cylinder, so you already have the right engine mounts.

My little truck is also bright yellow!
If I have that kind of power, I might be tempted to use it!
And I will be less than inconspicuous.
http://thebigbradwolf.gotdns.com/trucka.jpg
http://thebigbradwolf.gotdns.com/truckb.jpg

The only two things that are keeping my from doing the drop thing, are the horror stories about ruining the camber of the wheels so badly that tire replacement becomes much more frequent.
Secondly, my driveway has already claimed one victim with too low bodywork.
My truck is the only vehicle that can be backed out of the drive at any angle without dragging bodywork. Every other vehicle has to be backed straight out so that each wheel leaves the driveway at a different time. (The driveway has a very pronounced curve, as we live on a cul-de-sac).

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

My little truck is also bright yellow!
If I have that kind of power, I might be tempted to use it!
And I will be less than inconspicuous.

The only two things that are keeping my from doing the drop thing, are the horror stories about ruining the camber of the wheels so badly that tire replacement becomes much more frequent.
Secondly, my driveway has already claimed one victim with too low bodywork.
My truck is the only vehicle that can be backed out of the drive at any angle without dragging bodywork. Every other vehicle has to be backed straight out so that each wheel leaves the driveway at a different time. (The driveway has a very pronounced curve, as we live on a cul-de-sac).

The horror stories are false and ignore them if you really want to drop your truck. If not then leave it the way it is. But dont be afraid to drop it just because of the camber/ caster rumors.

 

[Gil]

See my last post for pics of "Tonka"

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

Oh yeah I remember that truck from another thread. I like it a lot and its similar to my grandmas but hers is a club cab. I like the yellow and would keep it. 👍

 

[Famine]

I was just going to say the same thing.

Although I always start my engine with my foot on the clutch. I was told it helps prevent wear on the clutch/grearbox.

And I was thinking it too. daan drives a French car, I drive a Japanese one (and have driven a whole variety of really weird other ones, including a diesel van from Luton and three tiny petrol-engined hatchbacks from Dagenham - one with a manual choke). Not one of them found it absolutely vital to have the clutch fully depressed when starting - but I usually do it anyway as it's safe practice.

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

Most drag strips in America wont even let you on the track if you dont have a neutral safety switch)automatics or something similar for a manual transmission. Of course some places arent as strict as others.
They do this in case some freak accident happens, there wont be any way your car can be started without the clutch pedal pushed down.

 

[Famine]

And would this feature be installed from the factory in those well-known drag-mobiles Gil mentioned?

 

[skip0110]

And would this feature be installed from the factory in those well-known drag-mobiles Gil mentioned?

Every car in the US since about 1990 (probably a few years earlier) has a neutral safety switch from the factory.

 

[Famine]

So seriously, no US-made, US-market car since the early 90s with a manual gearbox can be started UNLESS you depress the clutch fully? For real?

 

[skip0110]

Yes. What would be the benefit of being able to start your car without pushing down the clutch anyway? You can still push-start a car with this feature.

 

[Famine]

Don't they trust you to disengage the gearbox then?

That's just stunning. I thought you were taking the piss.


The last time I started my car without pressing the clutch pedal was last week. I reached in and started it, put the rear screen heater on, the windscreen blower on full and the intermittant wipers on, then set about scraping ice off the car. It'd have been a bit of a palaver to have to get into the car (especially given the height, or lack of, off the ground and the slope of my drive), press the clutch, start the engine and then have to get out again.

 

[pimp racer]

sucks unfortunally all of our cars are autos since my dad wants to be simple. He said the reason was because if someone that needed to drive it for an emergencay didnt know how to drive a stick than that would cause problems so in my brothers 04 Accord ex v6 he got auto rather than stick. that car is amazing I love it. He has done 125+MPH in it. I wonder what he would have gone to in a manuel?

 

[Jay]

I always start my car in neutral, I never start it with the clutch. I gotten used to this because my Skyline has a turbo timer so in needs to be left in neutral, so when I come back to it I just turn the key, I dont even need to sit in it.

 

[skip0110]

I always start my car in neutral, I never start it with the clutch. I gotten used to this because my Skyline has a turbo timer so in needs to be left in neutral, so when I come back to it I just turn the key, I dont even need to sit in it.

Never understood the turbo timer. So it just idles the engine after you take they key out, cycling oil through the turbo until the temperature drops enough? What if someone jumps in the car after you leave?