New Amazon Kindle Fire tablet and new Kindles

[mattythedog]

Amazon announced earlier today a $199 tablet to rival iPad. More info here
Also new touch screen Kindles starting at $79. More info here.
The kindles look good, touch screen ones not available in the UK....yet. You can preorder on Amazon, shipping mid-november.

 

[AOS-]

Rival an iPad...? Really? Can an iPad fit in your back pocket? No!

If anything, Kindle should be rivalling other e-readers since they're more alike.

 

[F1GTR]

Rival an iPad...? Really? Can an iPad fit in your back pocket? No!

The Kindle Fire is supposed to rival the iPad as a larger, colour tablet with apps. It's not an e-ink device solely for reading on. Amazon are targeting two different markets now.

If anything, Kindle should be rivalling other e-readers since they're more alike.

What?

Anyway, it would be interesting to see the UK price and what the screen is like, tablets are pretty good for showing off your artwork/photography.

 

[E28]

I'm not sure that Kindle Fire will rival the iPad. It will rival the other cheapish tablets. And am I the only one who thinks the kindle touch is extremely ugly?

 

[Azuremen]

Rival an iPad...? Really? Can an iPad fit in your back pocket? No!

If anything, Kindle should be rivalling other e-readers since they're more alike.

A 7 inch screen won't fit in your back pocket either. Unless you are wearing hilariously oversized clothes.

e-readers, as others have pointed out, target a different market with their displays and design. This is aimed at the market that is considering an iPad.

 

[Mike Rotch]

As I think iPads are overrated and overpriced, I'd be keen to hear more about this. Particularly:

1) How does e-ink work on a gloss screen. If it doesn't, its functionality as an e-reader is negated.
2) Which Android platform is it running.
3) Are there plans for a 3G version. If not, its not really playing in the same space as the iPad. Playbook etc.

 

[Casio]

Fire is literally an iPad Rival. What are you guys talking about?

 

[Robin]

I totally expect this to go the way of the HP Touchpad and the Blackberry PlayBook because although its based on Android it is in essence a unique highly customised OS and unique OS's DIE!

Its going to have to be seriously cheap because the casual crowd only want iPad's and will pay anything for them.

 

[Azuremen]

I totally expect this to go the way of the HP Touchpad and the Blackberry PlayBook because although its based on Android it is in essence a unique highly customised OS and unique OS's DIE!

Its going to have to be seriously cheap because the casual crowd only want iPad's and will pay anything for them.

Under $300 is fairly cheap. The Touchpad died because HP killed it before it could even attempt to see how it would sell. Blackberry is on its own operating system, so that is different than a skinned version of Android. Much, much different.

 

[Robin]

Under $300 is fairly cheap. The Touchpad died because HP killed it before it could even attempt to see how it would sell. Blackberry is on its own operating system, so that is different than a skinned version of Android. Much, much different.

Amazon's Android based OS is a lot more than a skin, its only Android in terms of the open source underlying code, the OS is entirely unique.

So apparently you can't use any app designed for Android on it because its technically not Android. It's very much a walled garden device with content only available through the Amazon store.

Cheaper and different i.e. the normal Kindle is good..... Cheaper and lacking is not so good, people will just save up for the better thing. It also looks extremely chunky possibly to get it to the price point.

 

[nick09]

Yes. Open source OS's can be modified to what the Manufacturer wants. It can function differently from the code that Google gives out I believe(though I'm not an expert in this).

 

[Casio]

Amazon's Android based OS is a lot more than a skin, its only Android in terms of the open source underlying code, the OS is entirely unique.

So apparently you can't use any app designed for Android on it because its technically not Android. It's very much a walled garden device with content only available through the Amazon store.

Cheaper and different i.e. the normal Kindle is good..... Cheaper and lacking is not so good, people will just save up for the better thing. It also looks extremely chunky possibly to get it to the price point.

The Kindle Fire will be a runaway success. People will being lining up outside of stores like they did with the TouchPad firesale. It's $199, and provides 80% of the feature set of the iPad, with the benefits of Android.

This issue before with these highly customised versions of Android is that if it didn't meet the design guidelines specified by Google, then you were not allowed to put the native Google Apps on it, such as Gmail, Maps, and the Android Market place. This is a huge blow to the majority of manufactures, as building a Tablet device without an App Store is suicide. However, Amazon have an App store, they have the content ecosystems they can integrate into their devices. An Android App still works on this device, just not through the Marketplace, it will have to be submitted through the Amazon Appstore (Or sideloaded).

Amazon already have Prime/Video, they already have an MP3 store, I'm sure they'll work out a way to get this content down to their device, something most 'Google' Android phones have struggled with.

 

[Azuremen]

Amazon's Android based OS is a lot more than a skin, its only Android in terms of the open source underlying code, the OS is entirely unique.

So apparently you can't use any app designed for Android on it because its technically not Android. It's very much a walled garden device with content only available through the Amazon store.

Cheaper and different i.e. the normal Kindle is good..... Cheaper and lacking is not so good, people will just save up for the better thing. It also looks extremely chunky possibly to get it to the price point.

Casio answers this for the most part. Not to mention you can just load a whole clean install of Android onto it, since it clearly works on Android, which is where part of the problem is with the TouchPad and Blackberry. That, and devs had to develop apps specifically for those operating systems.

Yes. Open source OS's can be modified to what the Manufacturer wants. It can function differently from the code that Google gives out I believe(though I'm not an expert in this).

And then can have it cleaned off and a new OS put on fairly easily. Usually anyhow. Also, please stop trying to answer everything with Google or common sense - people usually have one or the other (often both)

 

[Casio]

It wouldn't surprise me at all if they released a 3/4G version for $249 quite soon as well.

 

[nick09]

And then can have it cleaned off and a new OS put on fairly easily. Usually anyhow. Also, please stop trying to answer everything with Google or common sense - people usually have one or the other (often both)

What? I can't contribute? That's a harsh comment.

 

[jacnob]

Yes. Open source OS's can be modified to what the Manufacturer wants. It can function differently from the code that Google gives out I believe(though I'm not an expert in this).

If that was the case, wouldn't some crackpot coder try to run Linux or something on it?

 

[nick09]

If that was the case, wouldn't some crackpot coder try to run Linux or something on it?

That's possible. Wouldn't it also be possible for some person to design his own tablet with android on it? Though that would be costly to do.

Edit: They can obtain the software here. Though of course a person has to go through a lot to make something to sell to the public.

 

[jacnob]

That's possible. Wouldn't it also be possible for some person to design his own tablet with android on it? Though that would be costly to do.

Wouldn't that be pointless? We have this one, and a few more that their names escape me.

 

[nick09]

I was only bringing up what someone could do but it is of course very unlikely to happen.

 

[bergauk]

What? I can't contribute? That's a harsh comment.

You could contribute a lot more if you knew more about what you tried to talk about.


I think the Kindle Fire wont be a full on iPad alternative, but it should be a great competitor to the similarly priced tablets. Most likely it'll beat out the lower spec ones. But given its size, and storage capacity. I don't see it as a direct competitor. More as a "Hey look at what I can do, I'm kinda like an iPad".

 

[Robin]

The Kindle Fire will be a runaway success. People will being lining up outside of stores like they did with the TouchPad firesale. It's $199, and provides 80% of the feature set of the iPad, with the benefits of Android.

This issue before with these highly customised versions of Android is that if it didn't meet the design guidelines specified by Google, then you were not allowed to put the native Google Apps on it, such as Gmail, Maps, and the Android Market place. This is a huge blow to the majority of manufactures, as building a Tablet device without an App Store is suicide. However, Amazon have an App store, they have the content ecosystems they can integrate into their devices. An Android App still works on this device, just not through the Marketplace, it will have to be submitted through the Amazon Appstore (Or sideloaded).

Amazon already have Prime/Video, they already have an MP3 store, I'm sure they'll work out a way to get this content down to their device, something most 'Google' Android phones have struggled with.

Its success will come down to content and apps, with Amazon being a huge player in published material they do have a reasonable chance of holding their own but I feel the big mistake was not just making it true Android.

Android native apps will not work with the Kindle Fire! there is no way of connecting to the Android market. Therefore they will have to be ported to the Kindle OS available via the Amazon Store. It probably only needs a quick conversion (because the underlying stuff is the same) but how many dev's are going to bother?

Amazon needs to ramp up app's in a big way to appeal to the non reading crowd either wise it will flop, the more sensible thing would have just being to make it true Andriod but Amazon wanted all revenue to come directly through them. It will be a test of Amazon loyalty much like with Apple and the iPad.

Casio answers this for the most part. Not to mention you can just load a whole clean install of Android onto it, since it clearly works on Android, which is where part of the problem is with the TouchPad and Blackberry. That, and devs had to develop apps specifically for those operating systems.

Yeah but no normal buyer is going to fiddle with their Kindle and load up unauthorised OS's, just like most iPad owners don't jailbreak them. And the apps still have to be tailored to Kindle OS so that problem hasn't gone away. Unless its got Android market on it (which it doesn't) then for arguments sake its not Andriod!

Robin.

 

[bergauk]

Robin, do you even realize the sheer amount of Apps that are available on the Amazon App store? Do you realize that there are MULTIPLE App stores. Amazon's App store is not solely for the Kindle Fire, it caters to any device you can put it on, which is quite a bit.

Take a look. http://www.amazon.com/mobile-apps/b/ref=sa_menu_adr_app4?ie=UTF8&node=2350149011

Just for comparison. Here's the Android Market. https://market.android.com/?hl=en

And here is AppsLib. http://appslib.com/



For those of us out there that are looking for a particular thing. We will most likely go through anything to get it. I just pointed out three different app marketplaces that can be used. Each offering many similar applications. Each one is able to be installed on whatever you can put it on, so long as you can figure out how to do it.



Not like it matters which one you use. Most people are just going to install Angry Birds and be done with it..

 

[Azuremen]

Android native apps will not work with the Kindle Fire! there is no way of connecting to the Android market. Therefore they will have to be ported to the Kindle OS available via the Amazon Store. It probably only needs a quick conversion (because the underlying stuff is the same) but how many dev's are going to bother.

Side loading of apps first of all.

Second, devs will do it. I mean, they are porting Android to the HP TouchPad, which is way more complicated than porting porting it to the Fire will be.

Yeah but no normal buyer is going to fiddle with their Kindle and load up unauthorised OS's, just like most iPad owners don't jailbreak them. And the apps still have to be tailored to Kindle OS so that problem hasn't gone away. Unless its got Android market on it (which it doesn't) then for arguments sake its not Andriod!

Robin.

It is Android. That would be like saying a Jailbroken iPhone that goes to Cydia or one of the other app sources isn't running iOS.

And I've known complete tech illiterates that have taken the time to figure out how to jailbreak their iPhone. So, yeah. You are making a bunch of assumptions that aren't really built on anything valid.

 

[bergauk]

Cody, every post from you makes me have a little bit more admiration for you.

Probably one of the few people on here that know their stuff.

 

[Azuremen]

Cody, every post from you makes me have a little bit more admiration for you.

Probably one of the few people on here that know their stuff.

I don't know squat, like how to quote correctly Casio is far more knowledgeable than I am on these matters. Though I am starting to post less in hear because, well, there are a lot of know-it-alls that manage to pull threads off topic into completely meaningless hypotheticals.

As people are saying, Amazon is a huge company with a solid business model and system in place. And this is only helped by having some nice deals for students, such as free Prime, which will be a large part of the consumer base for the Fire. Especially at the target price point versus the iPad, and more so when education budgets are taken into account. If they provide PDF or similar formats for textbooks through the Fire, at this price it would cost less to buy the Fire than it would to pick up a single textbook.

And then you have the people that do read books and the news on a smaller reader but want something a bit more to look at emails, etc, but can't justify iPad pricing or size.

 

[bergauk]

You quoted me correctly there.

I think it'll do well. Especially coupled with the massive library of books they have. I seriously cannot see any reason for it to fail.

 

[Casio]

Its success will come down to content and apps, with Amazon being a huge player in published material they do have a reasonable chance of holding their own but I feel the big mistake was not just making it true Android.

Android native apps will not work with the Kindle Fire! there is no way of connecting to the Android market. Therefore they will have to be ported to the Kindle OS available via the Amazon Store. It probably only needs a quick conversion (because the underlying stuff is the same) but how many dev's are going to bother?

They actually do. Apps in the Amazon App Store are completely identical to ones in the Google Market Place. Identical. It is literally just a store front.

It actually creates more of an interesting situation for Google than Amazon. No Android tablet has really kicked off, the Kindle Fire has great potential to do so. If it does take-off, developers will be submitting apps to the Amazon AppStore before Google Marketplace. They will still submit for both, to get the most penetration, but does Google really want to complete against another distribution platform on its own devices?

 

[Robin]

And I've known complete tech illiterates that have taken the time to figure out how to jailbreak their iPhone. So, yeah. You are making a bunch of assumptions that aren't really built on anything valid.

99% of people do not go round voiding their warranties hacking OS's, its a fact. Are you seriously going to argue that most people buy devices with the intention of jailbreaking them... now that's certainly an assumption thats not built on anything.

Cody, every post from you makes me have a little bit more admiration for you.

I'm sorry but I nearly fell off my chair when I read that one

They actually do. Apps in the Amazon App Store are completely identical to ones in the Google Market Place. Identical. It is literally just a store front.

Yes but will the Andriod apps they currently offer in the Amazon Store (obviously designed for proper Andriod devices) work with the Kindle Fire, apparently not.

It's probably a very quick conversion to do which will start right away now that its been announced (Amazon has setup an Apple esque certification process to ensure apps work with the Fire) but the point is its an extra step that has to be done and how Amazon handle that process will be a key factor is its success.

 

[Casio]

Yes but will the Andriod apps they currently offer in the Amazon Store (obviously designed for proper Andriod devices) work with the Kindle Fire, apparently not.

Yes they will. It's still Android. The Fire is just highly skinned. In the same way you can use WindowsBlinds or Rainmeter to completely change the look and feel of Windows, but all your programs are still work the same.

The AppStore process is different than Google as the Marketplace accepts anything that meets it's technical criteria, whereas the Amazon AppStore apps are looked at by Amazon first and decided on a case-by-case basis (Like Apple).

 

[Azuremen]

99% of people do not go round voiding their warranties hacking OS's, its a fact. Are you seriously going to argue that most people buy devices with the intention of jailbreaking them... now that's certainly an assumption thats not built on anything.

I never said nor implied they would.

What I was implying is if Amazon has issues with their market, they can just push out an update and viola, the Google Marketplace will work fine. And more than 10% of users will likely be unlocking these. You'd be surprised, but not by much given how easy it is these days to do this kind of stuff.

I'm sorry but I nearly fell off my chair when I read that one

Yes but will the Andriod apps they currently offer in the Amazon Store (obviously designed for proper Andriod devices) work with the Kindle Fire, apparently not.

It's probably a very quick conversion to do which will start right away now that its been announced (Amazon has setup an Apple esque certification process to ensure apps work with the Fire) but the point is its an extra step that has to be done and how Amazon handle that process will be a key factor is its success.

As Casio has said, you're basically wrong about this. So, I think you can stop arguing it now.