New Corolla or New Civic?

[animateria]

Well my friend told me he was going to buy either a Corolla or a Civic because it was in a similar price range..... He is restoring a 1970 Nova but he says he needs a daily car to drive so..... I'm not sure which versions he is looking for in those cars either.. Eh... So I wonder which car and what version of that car would be good for him? (I think they are similar cars so I couldn't tell him anything).. Or is there another car that is in that price range that is better than them?

 

[Sage]

Well, if we're strictly talking about bang-for-your-buck, you'd best wait till Doug gets online.

If your friend's more concerned about how it drives and that kind of stuff though, I think it's safe to say the Civic would be the better bet... Toyotas as of late have been designed really badly as "driver's cars", generally because the seating proportions are all wrong and the dash is too friekin' high. But that's all my subjective opinion, of course.

 

[Victor Vance]

Well, would he take the base Corolla/Civic DX or The Corolla XRS/Civic Si? (aka does he need just a daily driver or a part-time 'sunday driver')

 

[animateria]

Well, would he take the base Corolla/Civic DX or The Corolla XRS/Civic Si? (aka does he need just a daily driver or a part-time 'sunday driver')

Um..... Not sure.. I should ask him... Well he will have a Nova so I'm guessing it would be a daily driver...

 

[1X83Z]

To begin, ... neither.

The best car in this segment is the Nissan Sentra 2.5S at $16800 - not only does it do 0-60 in eight seconds, but it's got 165bhp standard (straight best-in-class power per dollar) along with an automatic transmission, ABS, front side airbags, an alarm, alloy wheels, and everything else you'd expect at the price range (CD, air-con, power windows, locks, and mirrors). The sole option is cheap - a power sunroof for $700 (though there's actually a spoiler for $360, too). The problem with this vehicle is that I've never actually seen one - Nissan instead attempts to steer buyers towards the more expensive (but similarly good) Sentra SE-R and SE-R Spec V.

If you can find a 2.5S, good. But second-best bet is the Kia Spectra EX. Not only is it one of three vehicles in the segment that's already a 2005 model, but the EX model is unbelievable - to attempt to put people in the cars, Kia has given it dual front airbags, front side airbags, and side curtain airbags - at $13800 ($14700 for an automatic). The LX, the base model, is poo - but the EX is just $1200 more and adds air-con, heated power mirrors, power windows, power locks, and keyless entry. As if that's not a good enough deal, ABS is just $400, alloys are $360, a sunroof is $700, cruise is $200, and a spoiler is $250 - there are no huge packages to deal with. Horsepower is average at 138, but with a manual transmission it does 0-60 in about 8.8 (9.2 with the automatic), which is respectable for the class.

I also like the Nissan Sentra SE-R Spec V (upside: handling, 175bhp for $17400, 17" alloys, great spec; downside: only a manual), Hyundai Elantra GLS (upside: great spec, just $13300, cheap but plentiful options, great gas mileage; downside: CD isn't standard, automatic is $14100, no GLS hatchback available), and Suzuki Aerio LX (upside: standard 6-CD, keyless entry, and heated mirrors, 155bhp for $14700, standard alloys; downside: ABS isn't standard, it's ugly).

Also worth considering is the Mazda 3i.

Of the Civic/Corolla shootout, the only decent one is the Toyota Corolla XRS, which is an all-new model using the (slightly) tuned version of Toyota's 1.8L 4-cylinder (which gets 180bhp) - the same engine used in the Toyota Matrix XRS, Toyota Celica GT, and Pontiac Vibe GT (along with the base Toyota Corolla, Toyota Celica, Pontiac Vibe, and Toyota Matrix). But still - all five of the models I mentioned (plus the Mazda 3i) are better in nearly every way.

 

[Victor Vance]

Bah, have shifted a '02 SE-R Spec V before, sloppy shift linkage 👎
For me, there are, among other things, 3 powertrain characteristics to a good driving experience: A good-sounding motor with power and gear ratios to match the power-band, a well-laid-out shift linkage that feels direct and natural, and properly weighted steering with a moderate amount of feedback. Without that, you're just looking at another people-mover

M5, the 2ZZ-GE is only used on the high-level GT-S, Pontiac Vibe GT, and Matrix XRS. A detuned version of the motor, dubbed 1ZZ-FE, without variable valve lift, making 140hp at a lower rev (6400) is used in the Celica GT, Vibe, Matrix base and XR. The engine is further detuned to 130hp for the Matrix/XR and Vibe applications.

 

[OoNismoO]

id get the civic, cause i think its more fun to drive, and better looking.

 

[1X83Z]

Bah, have shifted a '02 SE-R Spec V before, sloppy shift linkage 👎

Here's the problem with human beings and the SE-R Spec V. Everybody expects way too much from it. If people would step back and realise that it's an economy car and that it's main competitor is the Ford Focus sedan, it would get a significantly better rap. But everybody expects 'hey, it's got a 6-speed manual and sport seats and tuned suspension - it must be a mini Evo!' No. It's an economy car. Peel away all the badging and you're still just five options and fifty horsepower above a Sentra 1.8S. Get past the cool wheels and sport seats and you're still getting an EPA rating of 26mpg. It's an economy car.

M5, the 2ZZ-GE is only used on the high-level GT-S, Pontiac Vibe GT, and Matrix XRS. A detuned version of the motor, dubbed 1ZZ-FE, making 140hp at a lower rev (6400) is used in the Celica GT, Vibe, Matrix base and XR.

As long as we're going to pick apart what I said (since I nearly wrote it right - I know it, but just don't care enough) let's go through yours: the Celica GT gets 140bhp @ 6400 RPM. Congratulations! But the base Vibe makes just 130bhp @ 6000, as does the Matrix Standard and XR. And you forgot the Corolla altogther. Though it also makes 130 @ 6000.

Don't mess.

 

[Victor Vance]

I edited before you quoted

I didn't mention the corolla because I only knew the Vibe/Celica GT/Matrix-XR specs

On the Sentra: GTI, Si, and XRS can deliver at the shifter what the SE-R can't.

Also, Evo's have 5-speeds

Speaking of Lancers and WRC rivals, tell your friend not to overlook the Base Impreza and Lancer Ralliart. And the Hyundai Accent. The 10/100,000 warranty is hard to pass up, although the car (and its manufacturer) is a step behind on the automotive development ladder.

 

[1X83Z]

Speaking of Lancers and WRC rivals, tell your friend not to overlook the Base Impreza and Lancer Ralliart. And the Hyundai Accent. The 10/100,000 warranty is hard to pass up, although the car (and its manufacturer) is a step behind on the automotive development ladder.

The Lancer Ralliart is decent, but the Impreza is trash - nothing's standard, and everything HAS to be standard for $19500. Accent is worse than that; nothing's standard OR optional. It's so bad that they could re-badge it as the Jaguar X-Type and no-one would know the difference.

 

[Victor Vance]

LOL, yep the Accent is just a people mover. Never got in it (or a Hyundai/Kia dealership for that matter) never will.

 

[animateria]

Ahem..... Considering that my friend would most likely buy a car with an automatic transmission...... The stuff about the shifting would not be important(God, if he gets a car with one I would never get in it... He barely has any driving experience..... He still needs to get his license) But I guess I could tell him about the Nissan Sentra......
Gee... funny you mention the Lancer..... He does like the Evo (Not sure about the basic Lancer)... I should check that out.....

 

[animateria]

LOL, yep the Accent is just a people mover. Never got in it (or a Hyundai/Kia dealership for that matter) never will.

Yep, got in one before..... And I didn't feel safe..... The doors are(or looked) ultra thin and the car felt like a toy car...... Big, Big 👎

 

[Victor Vance]

Animateria, I'm sorry to hear about his ability to shift

My 34 year old bus driver, one day she was talking about how she had a rich boyfirend and when she was driving his Porsche, she actually managed to burn up the clutch going up a hill :rofl:

I started shifting manuals at age 11
(yes, my daddy's 1994 Chevrolet C3500 dump... but it was still a manual)

M5: Four-wheel drive. That's what's standard. And that's why I see so many Imprezas/Legacys/Foresters when I visit my property up in the catskills (about an hour off Exit 20 on the Thruway - you do poke your head out of the skyscrapers every now and then and check out the rest of NY, don't ya? If not, then you don't know what fine countryside ur missin')

 

[OoNismoO]

what about mazda, they have some decent cars.

 

[1X83Z]

Ahem..... Considering that my friend would most likely buy a car with an automatic transmission...... The stuff about the shifting would not be important

I'd still keep my recommendations the same - Nissan Sentra 2.5S, Kia Spectra EX, Nissan Sentra SE-R, Hyundai Elantra GLS, Suzuki Aerio LX, and Mazda 3i - each are available with an automatic transmission, and the two Nissans actually have automatics standard.

M5: Four-wheel drive. That's what's standard. And that's why I see so many Imprezas/Legacys/Foresters when I visit my property up in the catskills (about an hour off Exit 20 on the Thruway - you do poke your head out of the skyscrapers every now and then and check out the rest of NY, don't ya? If not, then you don't know what fine countryside ur missin')

In the United States, there are exactly three major markets for all-wheel drive cars: northern California (from Sacramento north to the state line along with northeast and due east of the Stanislaus National Forest, north of the Inyo National Forest), northwest and central Colorado (along I-25 from Colorado Springs to the state line as well as the box created using I-70 as the southern border and I-25 as the eastern border) and the all-encompassing market of upstate but central or eastern New York, Vermont, New Hampshire, and semi-rural and urban Maine (granted, there are other fringe markets - the Seattle, Washington, Charlotte, North Carolina, and Portland, Oregon areas are all coming on the way Denver did five years ago - mass college-graduate population growth, booming home-ownership).

These markets are saturated with money, SUVs, and inclement weather. Consequently, sales of the Audi Allroad, BMW 330xi and 325xi, Subaru Outback/Legacy/Forester/Impreza and similar all-wheel drive cars (X-Type, Mercedes 4-matics, Infiniti G35X) are significantly higher in these areas - and it's no accident. Manufacturers spend a lot of money and time advertising to you people.

So, while you think all-wheel drive is a significant advantage, to someone outside one of these markets, it's no better than traction control, which is to say no good at all, and not worth the extra cash. And when push comes to shove, this is why the Volkswagen Jetta significantly outsells non-turbocharged Imprezas, even when you factor in Impreza wagons and not Jettas. Yeah, the Impreza's got all-wheel drive, but the Jetta's got stuff (they cost about the same - both are significantly overpriced for the segment), and most of the country would rather have stuff that four drive wheels.

Incidentally, I know all about beautiful countryside - I've got a hundred acres in the most beautiful spot of countryside in all of Tennessee (in fact I'm Tennesseein' right now). :tup:

 

[Sage]

In the United States, there are exactly three major markets for all-wheel drive cars: northern California (from Sacramento north to the state line along with northeast and due east of the Stanislaus National Forest, north of the Inyo National Forest)

Well, I guess this is a "fringe" market, but what about the north-eastern part of southern California? (San Bernardino mountains, namely.) Our Subie always feels homely up there. Except I still hate it for letting both of its vanity mirrors fall off.

 

[Victor Vance]

Well, All-Wheel drive is also very good for putting power to the ground... isn't the RS6 availible in Quattro trim? I just love the way that Evo took off when Dad test drove it.... no wheelspin, no drama - just a rocket-sled-like lateral G.

 

[1X83Z]

Well, I guess this is a "fringe" market, but what about the north-eastern part of southern California? (San Bernardino mountains, namely.) Our Subie always feels homely up there. Except I still hate it for letting both of its vanity mirrors fall off.

I don't think that area has disproportional all-wheel drive car sales.

isn't the RS6 availible in Quattro trim?

Like on all Audis over $36000, all-wheel drive is standard on the RS6 - though it was a 2003 model only.

 

[AP1]

Between Civic and Corolla, I'd take a Civic LX.

 

[Victor Vance]

Oh, by the way... I'd go with the Corolla XRS, great car 👍

My cousin Christina owns one, yeah its not an an XRS, and it's an automatic (which sucks) but that car has a ton of space inside given its size! Also, everyhing looks better put together than anything out there, save for the civic, which leads it by a hot-dog wrapper stuck to the bumper.

I TOTALLY FORGOT THE SCIONS! If you need small size and box-truck space the xB delivers, and the xA is alright.

 

[djSyndrome]

If it has to be auto only, I'd recommend a Mazda3. The Sentra is a much older design, has way too much torque steer and sloppy handling. My 2002 Sentra SE was an ok car, but the new ones aren't much better - putting a huge engine into a small car isn't always a good idea - and the 3 walks all over it.

 

[1X83Z]

My 2002 Sentra SE was an ok car, but the new ones aren't much better - putting a huge engine into a small car isn't always a good idea - and the 3 walks all over it.

It really doesn't. The 3i starts at $13700; the Sentra 2.5S at $16800.

The Sentra 2.5S has, standard, a 165-horsepower 2.5L 4-cylinder, a four-speed automatic transmission, an emergency inside trunk release, power steering, a tilt steering wheel, cloth upholstery, visor mirrors, a rear defogger, remote trunk and fuel door releases, air-con, a split-folding rear seat, power mirrors, power windows, power locks, remote keyless entry, an AM/FM/CD player, a digital clock, variable-intermittent wipers, a tachometer, map lights, front side airbags, 4-wheel antilock disc brakes, a leather-wrapped steering wheel, cruise control, a trip computer, and 15" alloy wheels. The no-option total here is $16800.

Meanwhile, the 3i goes for $13700 and has standard a 148-horsepower 2.0L 4-cylinder, a 5-speed manual transmission, 4-wheel disc brakes, an emergency inside trunk release, power steering, a tilt/telescoping steering wheel with radio controls, cloth upholstery, a split-folding rear seat, an AM/FM/CD player, a digital clock, a tachometer, map lights, intermittent wipers, visor mirrors, a rear defogger, and 15" wheel covers. To get it up to Sentra-spec you must add:

- 4-speed automatic transmission w/ manual shift capability ($900)
- Air-conditioning ($850)
- ABS/SAB/SAC package ($800) (antilock brakes, front side airbags, curtain side airbags)
- Power & alloy wheel package ($1190) (cruise control, power windows, power locks, remote keyless entry, 16" alloy wheels)

Now the price is up to $17400 and the deal's not quite so good. Even though it's $600 less than the 3i, the Sentra has more stuff: unique Sentra features include remote trunk and fuel door releases, variable-intermittent wipers, a leather-wrapped steering wheel, and a trip computer. The 3i's unique features are a telescoping steering wheel with radio controls, manual-shift capability for its automatic transmission, and curtain side airbags. The Sentra's also got 17 more horsepower and 40 lb-ft more torque. Furthermore, the Sentra has a larger trunk and more front and rear head room.

The 3s is a similar story - it starts at $16400 with a 160-horsepower 2.3L 4-cylinder, and adds to the 3i air-con, a leather-wrapped steering wheel, cruise control, power mirrors, power windows, power locks, remote keyless entry, fog lights, and 16" alloy wheels. To get this one up to Sentra spec you still have to add some thing:

- 4-speed automatic transmission ($900)
- ABS/SAB/SAC package ($800) (antilock brakes, front side airbags, side curtain airbags)

That brings the 3s's total up to $18100 - $1300 more than the Sentra, which still has variable-intermittent wipers, remote trunk and fuel door releases, and a trip computer as unique features. The 3s's unique features are just side curtain airbags, manual-shift capability, a telescoping steering wheel with radio controls, and fog lights. Once again, the Sentra has more trunk space and front and rear head room along with five more horsepower and 15 more lb-ft of torque.

The Mazda 3 sedan is a good car, but the Nissan Sentra 2.5S is the best car in the class for good reason.

 

[Takumi Fujiwara]

Actually, for once, I agree with M5. I'd recommend the Sentra myself. If for no other reason, then, simply, because it's a Nissan!

 

[JrunkenC]

nice post m5.

I understand where ur coming from, recommending all these nice cars. Man when someone i know asks me corolla or civic, I instantly mentally roll my eyes cause they are such uninteresting choices.

I've come to realize that most people will turn a deaf ear to you if you recommend something more interesting or unique. A lot of people just want to conform. Its very hard for people to do their own thing, even when its a better deal, or faster or whatever. These people WANT civics and corollas, they just ask other people to hear them recommend civics and corollas. If they wanted something else, they would have researched on their own and test drove different cars and at the very least asked a different question. Anyway, Mazda 3 get the 👍

 

[animateria]

Well he got a car..... It's niether of them.... nor is it new....

He got a 200sx for $2000 so...... I guess thats the conclusion..........

I guess you can't beat a good deal like that even over any good car.......

I'm guessing the car is in good shape (I didn't have a chance to see it yet..) since his dad is a mechanic and he thinks it in good condition...... The only problem my friend is having is couple holes in the car seats.. so........

Sheeesh.... I got my Accord 96 for $5000 and he gets a 200sx for $2000.....
I really have nothing to say

 

[Ev0]

nice post m5.

I understand where ur coming from, recommending all these nice cars. Man when someone i know asks me corolla or civic, I instantly mentally roll my eyes cause they are such uninteresting choices.

I've come to realize that most people will turn a deaf ear to you if you recommend something more interesting or unique. A lot of people just want to conform. Its very hard for people to do their own thing, even when its a better deal, or faster or whatever. These people WANT civics and corollas, they just ask other people to hear them recommend civics and corollas. If they wanted something else, they would have researched on their own and test drove different cars and at the very least asked a different question. Anyway, Mazda 3 get the 👍

I have to agree, people only go with Civics and Corrollas because people know and trust them.

Are the Civic and Corrolla good cars? Yes, they are bare bones cars that can move around 5 people in some comfort and has enough room to carry around a decent load of whatever it's owner wants. But, the main thing the buyers like about them is that they are good on fuel, and have bulletproof reliability. They appeal to people who are not interested in cars aside from being a method of transportation and to haul some cargo.

The Sentra and Mazda 3 on the other hand, are designed also as an affordable method of transportation, and are reliable and affordable as a Corolla or Civic. but is marketed more towards people like us, who want something that isn't a total econobox, something that has some excitement to it.

But as for a recommendation, how about a VW Golf. It starts under 20k USD, and is a blast to drive as far as it's price range goes.

 

[1X83Z]

But as for a recommendation, how about a VW Golf. It starts under 20k USD, and is a blast to drive as far as it's price range goes.

The $15600 base ($16500 with an automatic transmission) is attractive considering its spec, but for the engine is a let-down: it's a 115bhp 2.0L 4-cylinder that does 0-60 in about 10.7 with an automatic. That's how Volkswagen gets buyers - yeah, you can get a lot of nice stuff on base models, but if you want power, and most prospective Volkswagen owners do, you have to pay way more ($20300 for an automatic with an engine upgrade).

 

[animateria]

The $15600 base ($16500 with an automatic transmission) is attractive considering its spec, but for the engine is a let-down: it's a 115bhp 2.0L 4-cylinder that does 0-60 in about 10.7 with an automatic. That's how Volkswagen gets buyers - yeah, you can get a lot of nice stuff on base models, but if you want power, and most prospective Volkswagen owners do, you have to pay way more ($20300 for an automatic with an engine upgrade).

Yeah...... I personally like the VW Golf but the base car had really weak power.... The versions after that looked much better (spec wise) but the price did go up a bit..